Notes on the New Player Experience

Weis

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Jun 1, 2022
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I recently convinced my lifetime best friend and Twitch streamer, FlexChapman to dive into his first session of Mortal Online 2. For this session we both created Oghmir footies and ran through Haven together. Here is a list of my key takeways as a player with 4k Hours starting off with a day 1 player.

Travel: Travel in Haven took up most of our time and definitely turned haven into a walking simulator.

Character Creation: The list of Clades on the character creation list should probably be redone so that it looks similar to the in-game list. That way new players can visualize the pathing for the different clades. Flex noted that all the sliders on the faces basically didnt do anything and he barely had any ability to be creative with his character. The character creation menu was very clunky and left a bad first impression of the game.

Having to restart the game: I cant fathom how the bug still exists where players have to restart steam when switching haven instance or leaving haven to enter the game. This was a time sink for us and left a worse impression of the game. Fix this?

Tutorial missions: The tutorial system is bad, we only had four hours to do our session and the walking + gathering part of the tutorial would have taken the bulk of the four hours. I didnt bother taking him through it and gave Flex my own version which was better and more informative. Perhaps the tutorial should be a separate world where you take new players very quickly through crafting, gathering, fighting, and taming. Then the player enters with a horse and the basic items they gathered/crafted. This could take 5 minutes and significantly increase the New player experience.

Combat: Honestly, Flex has a lot of Gamer sense so this wasnt much of a learning curve compared to asmongolds stream on MO2. I taught Flex how parrying worked and he got it really easy and didnt have much trouble at all. His main issue seemed to be more with the clunkyness of blocking in the right direction because the click and drag/drag and click mechanic takes a LOT of muscle memory to get down. He got better at it, but its still a garbage system for new players. As a vet player I was struggling to undertand how he was having issues

Haven clade farming: The dungeon and ratcave were both being farmed and the bandit camps were empty. Should consider adding a handful of bandit camps in haven to give players more options so new players and streamers arent just wandering a wasteland for hours. Increasing spawn times here is probably a good idea too. We shouldnt need to leave a haven instance just to experience haven. Additionally, the recent glory nerf is TOUGH on the new player experience. Rat cave gives 6 clade a kill. It would take Flex around 5 days in Haven before he can actually PLAY the real game. This isnt how haven should work. A tutorial island itself should only really be a brief 1, MAYBE 2 afternoon experience. Increase the clades here and make the leveling speed for basic things much faster.

Haven instances: Flex noted that haven was kind of empty and voide of players. Probably should consider adding more POIs to haven and reducing the number of instances so the place aint so lonely.

Leveling speed: Honestly, the biggest issue and takeaway from flex was that if he wanted to dedicate any time playing this game, he would, but leveling is too slow and tedious for people with busy schedules, or for people who play other games besides mortal. At most, he can do one day a week on Mortal Online 2. But at that rate with the slow leveling speed it would take months before his character is ready to fight in the real world.

Explaining the nuances of MO2 to my friend in a Guided haven experience was somewhat stressful. It made me question why I even play this game in the first place. Thankfully, Flex plays during Late Evening NA EST timezone so we were able to roam Fabernum sewers without any griefers or PVP. But I cant imagine what his experience would be like if he logged in right now and attempted to leave town/get a horse. Seems like we have a long way to go before this game can actually attract and retain new players. Id love to hear what starvaults plan is here...
 

Weis

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Jun 1, 2022
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Other note: Flex spent the days prior looking up useful guides and information about mortal online 2 and was perplexed by the lack of basic information about the game. his impression about mortal online 2 was that it was a "meme game"..
 
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WetPuppy

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I did not have the same experience.

Population in Haven, my instance was a bit busy, with duels at the town market and ppl buzzing around.

I actually like the click and drag mechanic. I think it's great.
Tutorial, They are fine, but too short IMO. A better experience would be if we have a NewWorld like tutorial. A heavily scripted "dungeon" that you get through before reaching Haven for example.
Now, do I want to dev to spend time on this instead of working on other features? Probably not.
It might help the game in the long run though (as it might help retaining new players).
Levelling speed : well this is not NewWorld (for example again). Here leveling do mean something, and myself I like that it is slow. I am tired of MMO where the leveling is just a small part of the game.

WetPuppy
 

Weis

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Jun 1, 2022
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I did not have the same experience.

Population in Haven, my instance was a bit busy, with duels at the town market and ppl buzzing around.

I actually like the click and drag mechanic. I think it's great.
Tutorial, They are fine, but too short IMO. A better experience would be if we have a NewWorld like tutorial. A heavily scripted "dungeon" that you get through before reaching Haven for example.
Now, do I want to dev to spend time on this instead of working on other features? Probably not.
It might help the game in the long run though (as it might help retaining new players).
Levelling speed : well this is not NewWorld (for example again). Here leveling do mean something, and myself I like that it is slow. I am tired of MMO where the leveling is just a small part of the game.

WetPuppy
I prefer click and drag, havent played new world myself but I can see a benefit to having a separate tutorial system before throwing people into Haven. I like that leveling is slow as well, although the book reading times are quite a turn off for the new players. Seeing right off the bat that you need to invest a week to read a basic lore book kind of looks bad. Especially when it ends up not being an accurate timer.
 

Weis

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Jun 1, 2022
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Now this is the attitude the game needs and deserves. I'm so glad to see you part of the community for that authentic mortal experience.
Lol facts, I have guildies with jobs and families that cant dedicate more than 3 hours a day. Even that is quite a lot in the grand scheme of life. Especially if a lot of that time is spent dealing with travel.
 
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Gnidex

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Lol facts, I have guildies with jobs and families that cant dedicate more than 3 hours a day. Even that is quite a lot in the grand scheme of life. Especially if a lot of that time is spent dealing with travel.
Same, i am actually employed full time, but in order to do anything in this game you pretty much need to take a vacation or quit your job. 2h in the evenings is not nearly enough time to achieve anything due to ravel times alone.

The most frustrating bit is this is done to the actual detriment of the game, without any real benefit except a bullet point about the world size in marketing material. 90% of the feedback mentions the huge and desolate map with no content for large stretches of terrain. It is as if they really believed their own BS about "infinite players".
 

Weis

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Jun 1, 2022
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Same, i am actually employed full time, but in order to do anything in this game you pretty much need to take a vacation or quit your job. 2h in the evenings is not nearly enough time to achieve anything due to ravel times alone.

The most frustrating bit is this is done to the actual detriment of the game, without any real benefit except a bullet point about the world size in marketing material. 90% of the feedback mentions the huge and desolate map with no content for large stretches of terrain. It is as if they really believed their own BS about "infinite players".
wait you mean to tell me the map is an endless wasteland where tons of guilds are all farming the same three POIs? No way lol... And you can totally build anywhere in the map! its a sandbox with unlimited space for tens of thousands of players!
 

Gnidex

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wait you mean to tell me the map is an endless wasteland where tons of guilds are all farming the same three POIs? No way lol... And you can totally build anywhere in the map! its a sandbox with unlimited space for tens of thousands of players!
Yeah, you can totally build anywhere except slight slopes.

Better yet, you can scam the GMs into replacing your elapsed housing since they do not log anything.
 

Jackdstripper

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Jan 8, 2021
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This game will never appeal yo the vast majority of gamers. These days especially, everyone wants instant and constant gratification. Nobody wants to wait for anything. Apparently not even walking a few minutes in a tutorial. Frankly, if you are that impatient, this isnt the game for you.

This is supposed to be a pvp sandbox, and sorry to break it to you, but you’re gonna have to spend more than 4 hours to figure it all out and level your character.

Pvp sandboxes have always been niche. Many people try them, but few stay. Most people prefer theme parks. Lets not turn this game into a theme park. The tutorial is a pretty accurate representation of notmal gameplay. A lot of time spent doing menial tasks and travelling, with the occasional intense and often short bouts of pvp.

Those few that like MO2 tend to get hooked early on and spend a lot of hours playing it, because there just isnt anything that compares. For most, it will be too slow, too empty and too boring without quests or directions.
 
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Emdash

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Sep 22, 2021
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Melhi is the dude w/ the Amish Icon, ah he and Malm are indeed buds!

Haven is trash. I claded up there on one of my chars just to see, and man it took HOURS. Who the hell wants to farm/skill for 30-40 hours in some instance? It's easy to find an empty place, though.

HAVEN IS TRASH. The vast majority 'excuse' is untrue because MO2 actually looks decent. MO1, that's true. Mo1 was v v rough, but other than exploits/server issues, there is nothing stopping people from playing MO2. It's not MASS appealing, but I'd say it has enough appeal to go beyond niche.

The gratification that was added to MO: superspells, trinkets... was all aiming to give people that sort of instant gratification dopamine rush, and IMO it all failed. Haven is trash.

Haven is not a pvp sandbox****.

Also re: this

"Leveling speed: Honestly, the biggest issue and takeaway from flex was that if he wanted to dedicate any time playing this game, he would, but leveling is too slow and tedious for people with busy schedules, or for people who play other games besides mortal. At most, he can do one day a week on Mortal Online 2. But at that rate with the slow leveling speed it would take months before his character is ready to fight in the real world."

Books should be able to fix this. Leveling, again, has little to do with MO2 being too hardcore or niche. If you want to craft crazy stuff, ok, but if you want to be able to do viable adventuring? I remm in MO1, cuz I was the reroll master, having to get on an alt and attack myself with multiple pigs while blocking in order to skill up effectively. This is the biggest problem, the slow leveling which makes haven 'necessary' and thus turns off gamers. A ton of kids who might be into wild open pvp might be too ADD to skill up and reskill when their first build is fail. What say you to that?
 

Malmsteen

Member
Jul 29, 2022
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They want to turn the game into new world even though they dont even play that.
Melhi is the dude w/ the Amish Icon, ah he and Malm are indeed buds!

Haven is trash. I claded up there on one of my chars just to see, and man it took HOURS. Who the hell wants to farm/skill for 30-40 hours in some instance? It's easy to find an empty place, though.

HAVEN IS TRASH. The vast majority 'excuse' is untrue because MO2 actually looks decent. MO1, that's true. Mo1 was v v rough, but other than exploits/server issues, there is nothing stopping people from playing MO2. It's not MASS appealing, but I'd say it has enough appeal to go beyond niche.

The gratification that was added to MO: superspells, trinkets... was all aiming to give people that sort of instant gratification dopamine rush, and IMO it all failed. Haven is trash.

Haven is not a pvp sandbox****.

Also re: this

"Leveling speed: Honestly, the biggest issue and takeaway from flex was that if he wanted to dedicate any time playing this game, he would, but leveling is too slow and tedious for people with busy schedules, or for people who play other games besides mortal. At most, he can do one day a week on Mortal Online 2. But at that rate with the slow leveling speed it would take months before his character is ready to fight in the real world."

Books should be able to fix this. Leveling, again, has little to do with MO2 being too hardcore or niche. If you want to craft crazy stuff, ok, but if you want to be able to do viable adventuring? I remm in MO1, cuz I was the reroll master, having to get on an alt and attack myself with multiple pigs while blocking in order to skill up effectively. This is the biggest problem, the slow leveling which makes haven 'necessary' and thus turns off gamers. A ton of kids who might be into wild open pvp might be too ADD to skill up and reskill when their first build is fail. What say you to that?
Lol this game is one of the least grindy mmos ive ever played. Its faster than new world even. Btw u can leave haven at lvl 2. The more i re read what you post the more i think you have to be trolling or just straight up artistic.
 

Emdash

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Sep 22, 2021
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They want to turn the game into new world even though they dont even play that.

Lol this game is one of the least grindy mmos ive ever played. Its faster than new world even. Btw u can leave haven at lvl 2. The more i re read what you post the more i think you have to be trolling or just straight up artistic.

No doubt! I'm glad that someone finally noticed how I am indeed an artist. I am also mentally ill! You can refer to the 2 brainz thread I made. I didn't explain it so well, but I think I did enough. Once you entertain enough possibilities at once, especially when each possibility is a more advanced concept, you become more and more unstable. It's a lot of work to do deep thinking. :eek:

What I don't understand is why you guys are so fcking angry at people suggesting how to make the game good? Is it the implication that the game is not already good? I honestly don't think you understand the whole of what I am saying in a lot of cases. You have to be able to imagine multiple things at once, basically build a system in your head and let it run. I'm not saying I have the perfect solutions, but I can identify a FAULTY SYSTEM. MO2 is handicapped by poor mechanics on many levels. A lot of the people, who say that in fewer words than I do, understand but they either lack the energy or ability to properly express it. That's why I do actually start posting garbage in the middle of my posts... it gets boring trying to break through.

The best comment yet is dude's "Yeah, well, it's not gonna happen." That's the actual truth. I can post all I want, and even if I had a perfect solution, it probably wouldn't matter. Nobody is thinking anymore.

I dono why you keep talking about New World haha. That + your actual ANGER at people making suggestions make me think you must be somehow related to the dev-team. I've never really seen people stan the dev team like a few of you guys do. Most people are more realistic like... yeah it's got problems, but...
 

Malmsteen

Member
Jul 29, 2022
63
16
8
No doubt! I'm glad that someone finally noticed how I am indeed an artist. I am also mentally ill! You can refer to the 2 brainz thread I made. I didn't explain it so well, but I think I did enough. Once you entertain enough possibilities at once, especially when each possibility is a more advanced concept, you become more and more unstable. It's a lot of work to do deep thinking. :eek:

What I don't understand is why you guys are so fcking angry at people suggesting how to make the game good? Is it the implication that the game is not already good? I honestly don't think you understand the whole of what I am saying in a lot of cases. You have to be able to imagine multiple things at once, basically build a system in your head and let it run. I'm not saying I have the perfect solutions, but I can identify a FAULTY SYSTEM. MO2 is handicapped by poor mechanics on many levels. A lot of the people, who say that in fewer words than I do, understand but they either lack the energy or ability to properly express it. That's why I do actually start posting garbage in the middle of my posts... it gets boring trying to break through.

The best comment yet is dude's "Yeah, well, it's not gonna happen." That's the actual truth. I can post all I want, and even if I had a perfect solution, it probably wouldn't matter. Nobody is thinking anymore.

I dono why you keep talking about New World haha. That + your actual ANGER at people making suggestions make me think you must be somehow related to the dev-team. I've never really seen people stan the dev team like a few of you guys do. Most people are more realistic like... yeah it's got problems, but...
Didnt read but go see a doctor
 

Emdash

Well-known member
Sep 22, 2021
3,046
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Didnt read but go see a doctor

haha, don't worry, I will prol be gone soon, and you can go back to trolling people who try to make suggestions. For now, let the magic happen.

I HAVE A DREAM... MORTAL 2 CAN BE GOOD. Read the OP, stop talking about New World, and figure out what is happening here. <3
 

Haxanmancer

New member
Mar 27, 2022
6
1
3
I recently convinced my lifetime best friend and Twitch streamer, FlexChapman to dive into his first session of Mortal Online 2. For this session we both created Oghmir footies and ran through Haven together. Here is a list of my key takeways as a player with 4k Hours starting off with a day 1 player.

Travel: Travel in Haven took up most of our time and definitely turned haven into a walking simulator.

Character Creation: The list of Clades on the character creation list should probably be redone so that it looks similar to the in-game list. That way new players can visualize the pathing for the different clades. Flex noted that all the sliders on the faces basically didnt do anything and he barely had any ability to be creative with his character. The character creation menu was very clunky and left a bad first impression of the game.

Having to restart the game: I cant fathom how the bug still exists where players have to restart steam when switching haven instance or leaving haven to enter the game. This was a time sink for us and left a worse impression of the game. Fix this?

Tutorial missions: The tutorial system is bad, we only had four hours to do our session and the walking + gathering part of the tutorial would have taken the bulk of the four hours. I didnt bother taking him through it and gave Flex my own version which was better and more informative. Perhaps the tutorial should be a separate world where you take new players very quickly through crafting, gathering, fighting, and taming. Then the player enters with a horse and the basic items they gathered/crafted. This could take 5 minutes and significantly increase the New player experience.

Combat: Honestly, Flex has a lot of Gamer sense so this wasnt much of a learning curve compared to asmongolds stream on MO2. I taught Flex how parrying worked and he got it really easy and didnt have much trouble at all. His main issue seemed to be more with the clunkyness of blocking in the right direction because the click and drag/drag and click mechanic takes a LOT of muscle memory to get down. He got better at it, but its still a garbage system for new players. As a vet player I was struggling to undertand how he was having issues

Haven clade farming: The dungeon and ratcave were both being farmed and the bandit camps were empty. Should consider adding a handful of bandit camps in haven to give players more options so new players and streamers arent just wandering a wasteland for hours. Increasing spawn times here is probably a good idea too. We shouldnt need to leave a haven instance just to experience haven. Additionally, the recent glory nerf is TOUGH on the new player experience. Rat cave gives 6 clade a kill. It would take Flex around 5 days in Haven before he can actually PLAY the real game. This isnt how haven should work. A tutorial island itself should only really be a brief 1, MAYBE 2 afternoon experience. Increase the clades here and make the leveling speed for basic things much faster.

Haven instances: Flex noted that haven was kind of empty and voide of players. Probably should consider adding more POIs to haven and reducing the number of instances so the place aint so lonely.

Leveling speed: Honestly, the biggest issue and takeaway from flex was that if he wanted to dedicate any time playing this game, he would, but leveling is too slow and tedious for people with busy schedules, or for people who play other games besides mortal. At most, he can do one day a week on Mortal Online 2. But at that rate with the slow leveling speed it would take months before his character is ready to fight in the real world.

Explaining the nuances of MO2 to my friend in a Guided haven experience was somewhat stressful. It made me question why I even play this game in the first place. Thankfully, Flex plays during Late Evening NA EST timezone so we were able to roam Fabernum sewers without any griefers or PVP. But I cant imagine what his experience would be like if he logged in right now and attempted to leave town/get a horse. Seems like we have a long way to go before this game can actually attract and retain new players. Id love to hear what starvaults plan is here...
Other note: Flex spent the days prior looking up useful guides and information about mortal online 2 and was perplexed by the lack of basic information about the game. his impression about mortal online 2 was that it was a "meme game"..
I don't paly the game but I have an interest in it. I've watched dozens, if not hundreds of hours of YT videos just doing research.
 

Haxanmancer

New member
Mar 27, 2022
6
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3
This game will never appeal yo the vast majority of gamers. These days especially, everyone wants instant and constant gratification. Nobody wants to wait for anything. Apparently not even walking a few minutes in a tutorial. Frankly, if you are that impatient, this isnt the game for you.

This is supposed to be a pvp sandbox, and sorry to break it to you, but you’re gonna have to spend more than 4 hours to figure it all out and level your character.

Pvp sandboxes have always been niche. Many people try them, but few stay. Most people prefer theme parks. Lets not turn this game into a theme park. The tutorial is a pretty accurate representation of notmal gameplay. A lot of time spent doing menial tasks and travelling, with the occasional intense and often short bouts of pvp.

Those few that like MO2 tend to get hooked early on and spend a lot of hours playing it, because there just isnt anything that compares. For most, it will be too slow, too empty and too boring without quests or directions.
A large portion of Steam reviews are people complaining that they get repeatedly ganked right outside cities. Nakeds trying to farm, getting killed over and over again.
 

Weis

Active member
Jun 1, 2022
132
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43
"Leveling speed:

Books should be able to fix this. Leveling, again, has little to do with MO2 being too hardcore or niche. If you want to craft crazy stuff, ok, but if you want to be able to do viable adventuring? I remm in MO1, cuz I was the reroll master, having to get on an alt and attack myself with multiple pigs while blocking in order to skill up effectively. This is the biggest problem, the slow leveling which makes haven 'necessary' and thus turns off gamers. A ton of kids who might be into wild open pvp might be too ADD to skill up and reskill when their first build is fail. What say you to that?
Yeah the idea that books with long timers save you time is quite rough considering your build would have to have high intelligence for the book to be a short read. My beef with the leveling speed is that if you were a new player, didnt know anything about the game, somehow found the motivation to put 40 hours into Haven, just to enter the game and realize your build is trash. You basically have to reroll and experience the initial time investment all over again. Lots of my new recruits reroll in their first week and quit the game. Haven and slow leveling for basic things does not respect the players time :(
 
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