Nerf Veela

[Kaemik]

Yeah, I remember when he said that. I about said bullshit in his stream but didnt feel like getting banned. 90% of the human characters are noobs who dont know any better. Just like people who try to use one handed swords.

Humans have their merits but most people don't know how to make a good human build. I still see people using Khurite which are like a wish.com Kallard. If you think Khurites are good you've clearly never taken their stats and compared them against Kallard stats the way I just did with Shmerrik's fighter's speeds. And while that type of comparison doesn't factor in clades all humans have the same clades sooooo...

Beyond the fact that all good human builds are either mages or make good use of their roughrider clade which Khurites don't (rather ironically given Khurite = Mongolian).

 

[Kaemik]

That's actually the balances I think I would make for human:

1. I'd make their cleric clade gift apply to both sides of the armor equation. Currently it allows higher armor weight before mana regen falloff but past a certain weight you still reach maximum mana regen penalty like all other clades. I'd have it's maximum mana regen penalty be treated like maximum minus the cleric bonus so you still regen slightly faster in a full set of steel etc.
2. I'd give Khurites the same attribute pool as Kallards (+8) and raise their strength and dex maxes by like 5-10 points each but give them same con cap as a Tindremene(-16).
3. I'd raise roughrider bonus slightly.
4. I'd replace their temperature resistance nonsense with a clade bonus to shields. Something more than a discount. Something that actually makes shields strong since they have both the Romans(Tindremenes) and Vikings(Kallards) who were known for their shield walls.

Allows humans to lean slightly more into their existing strengths more. Opens up some stronger shield based builds for non-mounted builds which REALLY makes sense for humans.

Makes Khurites more of a glass cannon physical damage race which makes their mounted builds very strong the way a race based on god damn Mongolians freaking should be. Also with Khurites even faster and dealing WAY more damage than an alvarin that gives alvarins something to be very concerned about.

 

[Tashka]

TLDR
People in this thread can't catch a veela as an oghmir, hence it's OP. Not worth reading.

 

[Midas]

humans should get the int/mage buff imo they should be cinsidered the most civilized and literary species in the game.

 

[Emdash]

Precisely. If other clades aren't worth playing then they aren't getting enough bonuses for being slower. Like already mentioned, Alvarin have had very little in the way of buffs since they were considered worthless by most players for anything but dex mage. Take away their mobility advantages or tone them down even a little and we'll be right back in the same spot.

That doesn't mean you can't tone up other clades in ways other than mobility. Maybe start by making Khurites not absolute and complete garbage. It really doesn't help anything that the fastest non-alvarin build happens to be the worst race in the game with absolutely no builds it isn't dramatically outshined by another race in.

No but OP stuff is bad for the game: purist POV.

I think veela is pretty strong as a fighter. Anyone who can kill you can't catch you lol. I just thought clade gifts could be like dmg bonuses or whatever, but in circumstances like ON MOUNTAINS or something yknow? When attacking from above etc. Stuff to add depth and flavor. Just the flat speed buffs are bad for the game because they got the dex curve all screwed up so that everyone but veela is close to the same speed.

I def think veela should be able to get in and out and should be the ultimate troll build, but it's def high lvl subterfuge atm. Like I said if you are sieging, I could see why you'd want oghs or maybe thurs, but if you are roaming esp small scale giev veela.

 

[Kaemik]

No but OP stuff is bad for the game: purist POV.

I think veela is pretty strong as a fighter. Anyone who can kill you can't catch you lol. I just thought clade gifts could be like dmg bonuses or whatever, but in circumstances like ON MOUNTAINS or something yknow? When attacking from above etc. Stuff to add depth and flavor. Just the flat speed buffs are bad for the game because they got the dex curve all screwed up so that everyone but veela is close to the same speed.

I def think veela should be able to get in and out and should be the ultimate troll build, but it's def high lvl subterfuge atm. Like I said if you are sieging, I could see why you'd want oghs or maybe thurs, but if you are roaming esp small scale giev veela.

Well. They are one of the worst races for MAs... that definitely counts for a lot in the current meta. I mean they have a not terrible draw weight and good weakspot but their speed advantage and all their maneuverability is entirely wasted on horseback.

 

[Turbizzler]

Instead of nerfing Veela or Oghmir, which are the two strongest PvP clade wise, bring Humans and Thursar up to their level. Veela are what they should be, fast, agile, annoying fighters to deal with. Oghmir are slow, small tanks that like rocks.

Humans aren't too bad, they're decent in group fights due to their ability to have strong magic and melee. Plus their clades allow some crazy crafting builds, due to all the profession points you free up. The reading clade makes them insanely easy to skill up too.

Thursar clades are just PvP bonus's, most of them average. They're tall, slow and dumb. Out of all the races they need the most TLC.

 

[Kaemik]

Instead of nerfing Veela or Oghmir, which are the two strongest PvP clade wise, bring Humans and Thursar up to their level. Veela are what they should be, fast, agile, annoying fighters to deal with. Oghmir are slow, small tanks that like rocks.

Humans aren't too bad, they're decent in group fights due to their ability to have strong magic and melee. Plus their clades allow some crazy crafting builds, due to all the profession points you free up. The reading clade makes them insanely easy to skill up too.

Thursar clades are just PvP bonus's, most of them average. They're tall, slow and dumb. Out of all the races they need the most TLC.

Yeah. I think the two biggest changes Thursars could use is to make their healtsteal like a small % passively and remove their received healing debuff. They're the largest target in the game, you do not want allied healers being nerfed for some solo-only passive regen gift when you're the primary target of enemy and allied mages. It's great for duels and total trash if you have even a single mage/hybrid on your side.

And a temp healthsteal buff is really good if you lay into an enemy who isn't paying attention to you but given you're the size of a small car, stealth ambushes aren't really a Thursar's thing. That gift is just not a great fit for a race that's not particularly fast nor subtle enough to be a diver. It would be far better to have a smaller buff that consistently gives health as you get hits through than a gift that can be entirely negated if your target is parrying you well.

 

[Emdash]

Well. They are one of the worst races for MAs... that definitely counts for a lot in the current meta. I mean they have a not terrible draw weight and good weakspot but their speed advantage and all their maneuverability is entirely wasted on horseback.

I am not stout, but my veela did fine as MA. Plus the dex change on horse is actually something interesting. Def good enough at MA to do any ma-able pve and I don't feel like you are at a huge disadvantage vs anyone else on mount. The dex thing does matter tho. I dunno what it caps at, but it does matter. Getting over 100 is def nice. 127, dunno if that's worth it tho haha.

Ma is just for trolls anyway, plus if you get dismounted you can climb a mountain or something, run away, etc. So it's not REALLY wasted.

 

[Hodo]

Well. They are one of the worst races for MAs... that definitely counts for a lot in the current meta. I mean they have a not terrible draw weight and good weakspot but their speed advantage and all their maneuverability is entirely wasted on horseback.

The point on their foot speed is true, but maneuverability doesnt matter seeing as everyone moves the same in game on foot, like they have no mass. A 180kg Oghmir changes direction just as fast as a 60kg Veela.

As for draw weigh seeing as shortbows are as good as Asym bows from horseback it really doesnt matter when the best short bow has a 77-78 strength requirement.

 

[Deleted member 44]

The point on their foot speed is true, but maneuverability doesnt matter seeing as everyone moves the same in game on foot, like they have no mass. A 180kg Oghmir changes direction just as fast as a 60kg Veela.

As for draw weigh seeing as shortbows are as good as Asym bows from horseback it really doesnt matter when the best short bow has a 77-78 strength requirement.

Huh? There is no momentum and inertia system in the game. You can turn 180 degrees in any character and maintain full sprint speed. This is part of the reason Veelas feel so cracked.

 

[Deleted member 44]

TLDR
People in this thread can't catch a veela as an oghmir, hence it's OP. Not worth reading.

No. Speed is only a small factored, hence the other things I listed.

 

[Moored]

Huh? There is no momentum and inertia system in the game. You can turn 180 degrees in any character and maintain full sprint speed. This is part of the reason Veelas feel so cracked.

No you can't. There is a loss of momentum if you 180.

 

[Hodo]

Huh? There is no momentum and inertia system in the game. You can turn 180 degrees in any character and maintain full sprint speed. This is part of the reason Veelas feel so cracked.

I know that is part of my issue.... There is NO momentum or Inertia for anything other than for horses.

 

[Tashka]

No. Speed is only a small factored, hence the other things I listed.

What, 50% chance to not consume reagents? Helpful but doesn't really help in PvP. Reduced fall damage? Good for escaping, not so much for fighting. Stamina regen? Cool but hardly OP, if you're veela you run a lot; plus thursars have their 10% stamina drain reduction when swinging, and oghmirs just have the largest stamina pool in game. Small hitbox is hardly a major advantage, i didn't notice it to be any more difficult to hit a veela with a spell than say oghmir, and in mellee i don't care at all. Combat leap again good but not hardly broken. X-ray is very situational. +20 str for bows still doesn't let them use best bows in game.

How about lowest strength and damage bonus in game? How about not being able to wear a proper full steel if it's not specifically made for an alvarin? How about low HP? Or how about oghmir's rock solid or thursar's adamant that stacks with armor and lowers the damage a lot more than what simpletons think? How about oghmir pipe or thursar's lifesteal?

Yeah veelas and blainn are the strongest clades in game, but you better ask to buff humans and, to a less extent, thursars, rather than to nerf veelas and leave oghmirs to be the only Master Race.

 

[Deleted member 44]

No you can't. There is a loss of momentum if you 180.

What?

Hold W
Hold Shift
Turn camera 180°

 

[Moored]

What?

Hold W
Hold Shift
Turn camera 180°

Seems like you need to do some more thorough testing.

 

[Deleted member 44]

Seems like you need to do some more thorough testing.

 

[Moored]

You do slow, even if the UI doesn't reflect that.

 

[Runaljod]

Wish one of the 7 people working on this game would work on some real balance rather than taking a glance at the race/population distribution (including roleplayers) and calling it good.