Murderers and Consequences

Dramonis

Active member
Mar 4, 2022
100
76
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real life isn't fair

Life is harmonious, saying life isn't fair is hole another thing that makes no sense in-game.

Why? did you see the majority of the population killing, stealing, and invading property of each other without care around the streets? No.. this is even more dangerous now with weapons, if you get killed say goodbye... life is fair because perm death. A minority with courage or lack of option will steal or kill but the majority population doesn't want to get involved in a life/death situation and simply avoid it.
 

Tzone

Well-known member
May 16, 2021
2,468
1,447
113
If you are saying having MCs isnt harsh then stop spawning at blue preist and run multiple parcles a day. If you dont run parcles then you dont get to go inside town.

Then once you have done that for a while maybe you deserve to have your opinion be respected.

All I hear is people in emotional distress because they dont have full control. Nothing good faith about the arguments of the people asking for more anti pvp nonsense.
 

Atom

Active member
Apr 3, 2022
110
48
28
Yorkshire
Life is harmonious, saying life isn't fair is hole another thing that makes no sense in-game.

Why? did you see the majority of the population killing, stealing, and invading property of each other without care around the streets? No.. this is even more dangerous now with weapons, if you get killed say goodbye... life is fair because perm death. A minority with courage or lack of option will steal or kill but the majority population doesn't want to get involved in a life/death situation and simply avoid it.
Well, you have taken a tiny piece of a much larger statement and removed all the context.
My reasons for saying that was as a preemptive rebuttal to the usual disingenuous response of "life isn't fair"
 

Atom

Active member
Apr 3, 2022
110
48
28
Yorkshire
If you are saying having MCs isnt harsh then stop spawning at blue preist and run multiple parcles a day. If you dont run parcles then you dont get to go inside town.

Then once you have done that for a while maybe you deserve to have your opinion be respected.

All I hear is people in emotional distress because they dont have full control. Nothing good faith about the arguments of the people asking for more anti pvp nonsense.
MCs are probably too harsh but they are that way because the mechanics surrounding them are really lacking.
 

Albanjo Dravae

Well-known member
Dec 20, 2021
1,082
569
113
You only have to ask a few simple questions to understand:
Why isn't the game completely lawless?
Why have any penalties at all?
Why can't players just kill anyone at will?

The answer is just as simple. It's because that would only cater for a small minority of players. The game would die because it would lose one of the most fundamental themes of game design. The theme of fairness.

Nobody wants to be reminded that real life isn't fair. We know that we could get burgled because we have been. We know that things can get stolen because it has happened to us. We don't want a game that recreates some of the worst facets of real life without also attempting to catch and bring those troublemakers to justice.

So there has to at least be the idea of justice. That there is good and bad. And ultimately there needs to be the idea that, although it's not fair all the time, it feels fair most of the time.

That's the balance. There has to be a point where people accept loss but the ones taking have to acknowledge that they too will eventually be held to account for inflicting those losses.
The game design does not revolve around fairness, it would be silly to expect that. Law exist only to give certain players the illusion of revenge by penalizing certain behavior.
The game isnt completly lawless cuz SV struggles to come up with good ideas and they have to respond to the noobs and frustrated nerds that wont ever be saciated when it comes to penalizing criminal* behavior.

MO1 for example revolved around player interaction. With almost no law in the wilderness and a shitty flag/tag system. Often players controlled areas and people knew how to interact with eachother.

The true law was player made and thats how justice was given and thats what it should be, one of the most wonderful things MO had Is that players made their own fate instead of trusting for systems to punish behavior.

Thats a reality people were ment to play with, the ones who could and would accept it anyways. So many noobs quit the game cuz they were getting ganked yes, but that just happened cuz noobs had trouble understanding how to deal with other players and It's precisely what happens now. What can i say mortal Is death, it allways been as it Is social and political.
One of the problematics of the learning curve Is to know how to avoid conflict when you ain't looking for it. So when i see someone complaining that got killed on a road i laugh my ass off because this player has yet to understand the unforgiving nature of wilderness conflict.

I see people that instead of investing time and intellect into learning the game they rather rage bacause they can't deal with loss, and end up expecting the game mechanics to do for them what they are unwilling to do, play well or seek justice/punishment.

I say, fuck those nerds. Take it or leave it, if theres something thats atractive in this game Is that it ain't a steam themepark clone with instanced pvp. Mortal offers a different experience, stop trying to swim against the river and either accept It's reality or bring real balance arguments.
But not willing to accept the essence of a player driven game will only make you expect shit that wont happen.

The game does need balance and discuss a bunch of things? Yes definitely. Does the game need to punish behavior? Absolutly not, let players create their own shit.

It blows my mind people can't understand how the game works and expect shit like strongest penalties, toggle or instanced pvp. If you are in this game for the PVE only i have sad news, mortal's pve Is absolute garbage i know plenty more games that have excelent pve but not mortal, so if you in this shit just cuz pve im sorry but not worth the unpleasentness of not accepting the dangers.

You have to seek for your own justice and fairness, so not expect the game to hold your hand because it wont.
 
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Atom

Active member
Apr 3, 2022
110
48
28
Yorkshire
The game design does not revolve around fairness, it would be silly to expect that. Law exist only to give certain players the illusion of revenge by penalizing certain behavior.
The game isnt completly lawless cuz SV struggles to come up with good ideas and they have to respond to the noobs and frustrated nerds that wont ever be saciated when it comes to penalizing criminal* behavior.

MO1 for example revolved around player interaction. With almost no law in the wilderness and a shitty flag/tag system. Often players controlled areas and people knew how to interact with eachother.

The true law was player made and thats how justice was given and thats what it should be, one of the most wonderful things MO had Is that players made their own fate instead of trusting for systems to punish behavior.

Thats a reality people were ment to play with, the ones who could and would accept it anyways. So many noobs quit the game cuz they were getting ganked yes, but that just happened cuz noobs had trouble understanding how to deal with other players and It's precisely what happens now. What can i say mortal Is death, it allways been as it Is social and political.
One of the problematics of the learning curve Is to know how to avoid conflict when you ain't looking for it. So when i see someone complaining that got killed on a road i laugh my ass off because this player has yet to understand the unforgiving nature of wilderness conflict.

I see people that instead of investing time and intellect into learning the game they rather rage bacause they can't deal with loss, and end up expecting the game mechanics to do for them what they are unwilling to do, play well or seek justice/punishment.

I say, fuck those nerds. Take it or leave it, if theres something thats atractive in this game Is that it ain't a steam themepark clone with instanced pvp. Mortal offers a different experience, stop trying to swim against the river and either accept It's reality or bring real balance arguments.
But not willing to accept the essence of a player driven game will only make you expect shit that wont happen.

The game does need balance and discuss a bunch of things? Yes definitely. Does the game need to punish behavior? Absolutly not, let players create their own shit.

It blows my mind people can't understand how the game works and expect shit like strongest penalties, toggle or instanced pvp. If you are in this game for the PVE only i have sad news, mortal's pve Is absolute garbage i know plenty more games that have excelent pve but not mortal, so if you in this shit just cuz pve im sorry but not worth the unpleasentness of not accepting the dangers.

You have to seek for your own justice and fairness, so not expect the game to hold your hand because it wont.
So remove all criminal systems, right? Let the players decide.
 

Atom

Active member
Apr 3, 2022
110
48
28
Yorkshire
Yeah wilderness should be lawless or diegetic whitness reporting but not an invisible law that sees all. Let players control what they should.
A murder count is literally the victim of a crime reporting it. I really don't see the difference of having a witness report it.

So you want a safe space in towns where people can bank their stuff or craft in peace. Why? Why should that get any more protection than any other area?
 

Serverus

Well-known member
May 28, 2020
177
254
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Moh’ki
I am sure everything has been said, since there are six pages of content. Hopefully, I can offer a little insight and suggestions for the future. The current culture of the game being that it is open world, full loot, PvP, will inevitably attract griefers. Its the developers who give it a niche for them. There are a lot of good PvPers who want honest PvP with players who can give them a challenge, then there are griefers who pick on weaker players, miners, explorers, those who may not respond fast enough to defend themselves; maybe they deal with some kind of PTSD {Due to military experience in RL) and don't like to fight other players, or they are just not aggressive by nature. These are the ones who suffer the most in a game like this with griefers. Its a beautiful game, mind you and there should be a place for these players who don't want violence.

Toggle PvP is burdensome and not realistic and I don't agree with it. Players should be able to kill whoever they want and I don't think SV should take away that freedom. I do think there should be some kind of choice and a much stricter consequence for murdering someone innocent.

In order for this to happen, GM's need to be more involved.

IDEA TO PROTECT PLAYERS
Instead of quick ganking, which is not PvP in my eyes, it is just bullying. Why not give it a 30 second timer. If players engage in pvp both sides have to wait 30 seconds to attack and all players have to agree upon this action. If a player does not want to fight he can just opt out and run away. Similar to a duel. This way it will be a mutual agreement. Thus if someone attacks that innocent player who did not agree to the fight; he/she can therefore contact a GM after the assault and the GM will suspend the aggressor player or players account for 24 hours. If a player or players have 3 of these player assaults the accounts will be permanently banned. I think this will give PvP more honour and those who enjoy it can get it without having to grief and use that as an excuse to kill innocent players. This way we will find out who the skilled fighters are and the who the cowards are. You may be surprised to see how cowardly the current griefers in our community are.

Something to consider. @Henrik Nyström
 
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TheOxMan

Active member
Apr 11, 2022
115
32
28
Consequences should also tie in with the reputation level of the person killed, it would give pve players more incentive to do tasks for the city they are in knowing that if they are attacked with a very high rep the bounty sent out would be taken much more seriously and perhaps go out to a lot more people.

a low rep player would still be able to put a bounty out but the pool of people who would see it would be much much smaller (like 1 or 2 hunters might get it)

a very high rep player who is killed would activate a high paying top priority bounty that goes out to all hunters in the area
 

Albanjo Dravae

Well-known member
Dec 20, 2021
1,082
569
113
A murder count is literally the victim of a crime reporting it. I really don't see the difference of having a witness report it.

So you want a safe space in towns where people can bank their stuff or craft in peace. Why? Why should that get any more protection than any other area?

The difference should be that for reporting you would have to get to Town alive and not just let go to ress and report. If noobs want justice make em do something for it.

Because cities are protected by guards? Thats the actual difference between wilderness and a town.
 
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Pragma

New member
Mar 17, 2022
20
19
3
I am sure everything has been said, since there are six pages of content. Hopefully, I can offer a little insight and suggestions for the future. The current culture of the game being that it is open world, full loot, PvP, will inevitably attract griefers. Its the developers who give it a niche for them. There are a lot of good PvPers who want honest PvP with players who can give them a challenge, then there are griefers who pick on weaker players, miners, explorers, those who may not respond fast enough to defend themselves; maybe they deal with some kind of PTSD {Due to military experience in RL) and don't like to fight other players, or they are just not aggressive by nature. These are the ones who suffer the most in a game like this with griefers. Its a beautiful game, mind you and there should be a place for these players who don't want violence.

Toggle PvP is burdensome and not realistic and I don't agree with it. Players should be able to kill whoever they want and I don't think SV should take away that freedom. I do think there should be some kind of choice and a much stricter consequence for murdering someone innocent.

In order for this to happen, GM's need to be more involved.

IDEA TO PROTECT PLAYERS
Instead of quick ganking, which is not PvP in my eyes, it is just bullying. Why not give it a 30 second timer. If players engage in pvp both sides have to wait 30 seconds to attack and all players have to agree upon this action. If a player does not want to fight he can just opt out and run away. Similar to a duel. This way it will be a mutual agreement. Thus if someone attacks that innocent player who did not agree to the fight; he/she can therefore contact a GM after the assault and the GM will suspend the aggressor player or players account for 24 hours. If a player or players have 3 of these player assaults the accounts will be permanently banned. I think this will give PvP more honour and those who enjoy it can get it without having to grief and use that as an excuse to kill innocent players. This way we will find out who the skilled fighters are and the who the cowards are. You may be surprised to see how cowardly the current griefers in our community are.

Something to consider. @Henrik Nyström
You realise that the basic point of the game is "anybody can attack you at any moment outside of town" it's the first thing you have to learn, if you can't accept that you shouldn't even play this game, yes there has to be concequences for murderers, but wait for people to say yes or no to fight ? It's the same thing as toggle PvP off, it make absolutly no sense in this game.
 

Skabsticles

Member
Mar 19, 2022
70
43
18
Life is harmonious, saying life isn't fair is hole another thing that makes no sense in-game.

Why? did you see the majority of the population killing, stealing, and invading property of each other without care around the streets? No.. this is even more dangerous now with weapons, if you get killed say goodbye... life is fair because perm death. A minority with courage or lack of option will steal or kill but the majority population doesn't want to get involved in a life/death situation and simply avoid it.


You just summed up why the game needs harsher consequences and the need for some one to think twice before they act.
 

Skabsticles

Member
Mar 19, 2022
70
43
18
Have you stoped using the blue preist and stopped living in towns yet?

No because the system is so flawed you can stay in a positive rep with easy delivery runs and still act toxic lol

if they implemented the old uo murder system and added a couple more red priests it would fix a lot of the game.
 
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Emdash

Well-known member
Sep 22, 2021
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You just summed up why the game needs harsher consequences and the need for some one to think twice before they act.

The thing you guys who are talking about society are forgetting is... there is a complex society (and IMO IT SUCKS. MO ANARCHY!!! WHY PLAY A GAME TO BE IN A SOCIETY ARRGHHH.) It's big guilds and their non aggression pacts, huge alliances, the people who are outside of this lose power. It's kind of like the whole "we want our guns" idea of America. We might be at the bottom rung of things in terms of mega-corps and such, but we do have the ability to form militias. People say stuff like "lol tanks tho," but that's short sighted kind of in the same way it would be in MO. You can't just carpet bomb your own cities, you are taking heavy losses and losing morale. It's not an even playing field. So, like, if the state of Texas declared war on the US, it would not be as simple as you think it would be to subdue them. In the same way, each entity in MO needs to have some level of power so that they can group up and 'fight back' if the world is being shaped in a way they dislike. If the game is set up where you need TC with a red priest, they knock down your TC, you have no red priest, and you are living in prison. Nobody is playing MO to be under someone. I know I'm not. Like I said, the solo/smalls community is bigger than you think. Probably most of the casuals are the ones who tag up. There are groups of hardcore people and really big groups with hardcore people, but they are factors. They also have a bunch of casuals who are just along for the ride. Not many people are playing this game casually as a solo or a small group, and that's a problem. That's a huge amount of life that they are locking from the game. If those guys think PKing everyone is fun, fine... they will eventually run into a force of similar strength.

We want more people in the game. 5000 people and the game world would be way different. It's not feasible to do as much 'crime' then, because there are more people to stop you. The idea that everyone would just be fighting each other is irrational, and if that did happen, it wouldn't last very long. But why would you come into MO right now unless you wanted to tag up? You aren't gonna get any meaningful pvp. I don't mind getting zerged, but it's very deflating for a lot of people. Basically, in a sandbox, a rule set shapes the world. Think of water flowing down and then there are rules that are separating it, right now, it's pouring into 'tag up or nothing.' The harder you come down on pvp, the more you make it like that because large guilds or those who are friendly with large guilds are OUTSIDE of the rules. It's like saying you're comfortable with having a ruling class that does whatever they want as long as some other nub can't attack you. To me, I think that's really short sighted. BUT THAT'S JUST ME.
 
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Tzone

Well-known member
May 16, 2021
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We need the game to be carebear and punish the PvPers...

Game has been increasingly more and more punishing for PvPers and yet the pop continues to fall. We are sub the height of betas pop now.

beta was a better game.
 
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