Murderers and Consequences

[Albanjo Dravae]

Everyone. Everyone does that. Whenever something is suggested someone will say something like "well, you're not safe in real life" or "that's not how it works in the real world".

Ikr It's the dumbest thing to say on a fictional game. Those who try and compare the game to reality or human history, without sufficient and valid arguments are not even worth reading, i couldnt finish reading the OP's thread, people that mention "medieval" and "realism" on the same sentence talking about a game that has nothing to do with either of those concepts.
Justifying the idea of punishing criminal behavior ingame due to a stupid ass comparison with punitive systems in medieval era has to be one of the most retarded things anyone could come up with in these forums.

 

[Albanjo Dravae]

Or how about if you are murdered and no one is around to witness the murder then there is no murder count cause in real life you can't report your own murder.

I like this route, ghost to give murdercounts Is a really idiotic mechanic.

 

[Albanjo Dravae]

I also think killing needs consequences to be meaningful, it would get pretty boring fast if you wouldn't have a real risk. If you die you just replace your gear from the bank which takes like 10 mins to make. And rinse and repeat? This isn't dark souls where you just press "invade" constantly and stop playing through the storyline (and even in DS you can choose to play offline to avoid this). Meaningful consequences make the game better for both the murderer and the murdered, we don't have to pick a side and be like "killing is bad and should be minimized" or "not ever taking part in pvp is bad and should be minimized".

We should look at what makes the PvP most enjoyable for ALL, not just one side. So that there are reasonable measures to :

1. Avoid getting killed if one chooses to (but not guaranteed)

2. Get into situations where you can kill someone (unexpectedly, stealthily even, but so that the target has a real chance to fight back)

3. Have a reward on a successful kill (consequences on killing increase the average reward, as for example, the targets are carrying more loot if they feel safer).

4. Indicate players' alignment to other players (if you are the best murdered in a game, it's going to feel better that people know it is you and maybe you get some respect, rather than remaining anonymous-ish as is the current system), and also if a person wishes to declare themselves as a friendly helping soul, they should be able to signal that to other players in some way. For example if you carry no arms, you should have that clearly displayed on your character. And if your lootbag contains 5 heads of your enemies, maybe that gives out a stench of rotten flesh or blood on your clothes or something else revealing. I'm just saying it can be made really interesting for everyone if we choose to, and communicate it to the devs.

EDIT:

Thinking of dark souls, I really love their alignment system, how you can choose to be the murderer, or you can choose to help others, or you can specialize in hunting the worst murderers, or you can even be unpredictable and help who you please. The series really makes PvP interaction interesting, despite the players not sharing the same world constantly like in MO


EDIT2:

Right now we only have negative reputation in the game, but we have two lawless cities. We could easily implement a reputation level to those cities which increases when you are witnessed killing people, so that the murderer reputation would not only be a negative burden so to speak. This alongside with the harsher consequences for being a murderer in "blue" cities. Just some thoughts.

Im against this "need" to evidence extra-diegetically the status or intentions of players. People are too lazy to judge and understand player behavior and expect everyone to be cool and not attack. The thing is the liberty of choise this game grants Is partially due to players ability to deceive or to engage on other types of social interactions. Understanding a random Is probably more likely to be a treath instead of a friendly Is the line that differenciates smart players from complainers.

I say, don't wait the game to hold your hand and tell you whats good and whats wrong, who to trust and who not to trust, understand this Is a competitive world and It's not ment to be a holding hand simulator.

Sometimes i think the problem for noobs Is not the actual game mechanics learning curve but their general understanding of player interaction, suddently we get people making posts craving for more punishment. I consider It's just people too attached to mainstream concepts of PVP with instanced arenas and the ability to disable pvp when convenient, understand that Is not that game's design.

I see a lot of people saying shit like "yeah more punishment" or "good pvp vs bad pvp" and believe pvp should be dueling or only concensual fights.
Generally people upset by game's design are against ganks which Is a portion of what pvp Is, should it get more penalized? How? To what end?
This game from MO1 has been almost completly fueled by player conflict and it ends up being the most important content, why would anyone want to add even more layers of punishment and tediousness to a game that does not need it, just because noobs can't understand player behavior?

Perhaps the best content patch SV could bring to the game Is an NPC in haven that explains shortly but in detail that the greatest dangers of the world are players and not PVE, maybe then people that play won't get the wrong idea about the game.


Also seen a Lot of people saying "killing needs more consequences" is this some sort of morality thing or we discussing actual balance. News, theres a lot of consequences and i don't even have to tell you what they are, these consequences have been discussed a lot and most of the people that experienced them can probably agree they are already enough punishing even tho theres some people that likes to disagree just because they got ganked carrying 20g.

 

[Skabsticles]

Justifying stupid ass ideas trying to compare a game to reality, who the fuck does that bro

I fear for the human race when some dip stick has to write a comment this Stupid "bro"

 

[Albanjo Dravae]

I fear for the human race when some dip stick has to write a comment this Stupid "bro"

I'm sorry, but if you could come up with at least one interesting plot other than medieval realism, maybe we'd be arguing about something else, bro.

 

[Skabsticles]

I'm sorry, but if you could come up with at least one interesting plot other than medieval realism, maybe we'd be arguing about something else, bro.

I am not arguing about any thing and you have put nothing constructive forwards either lol
I am discussing murderer consequences and the fact that they need to be harsher to prevent the awful toxic attitude of some members of the mortals online 2 community. If you watch any of Henriks stream you would know more about what I talk about before you spill any more irrelevant rubbish.
He says in a lot of his streams about what his game is and what it is supposed to be, and that his game has realism elements whether you like it or not. The fact is its medieval inspired sandbox world you seem to have over looked the armour and weapons what are they inspired from? lol

 

[Albanjo Dravae]

Sensitive! lol

I'm open to all. And coming from the Back ground of UO, I was actually a well known PKer called Leprechaun on Europa shard of UO back in the day before Trammel come along, taken on some of the best players, as Well as Killing other PKers in the game, I played to hold my title of being someone to be feared.
Not only that I knew my play style, I knew the risks that come with that Play style racking up Murder counts knowing Full well if and when I was killed, I would take a Heavy stat loss, if I chose to find a wandering RED Priest to bring myself back alive. (to which I did, retrained and went on the Hunt again)

Yes in my age I've got slower and what I can do, I'm not as fast or responsive as I once was. But I chose a Path that not only put fear into other players gaming, I got a name for myself.

Your young minded belief leads you to believe you have the Right to team up with 10 or so off your buddies and Kill 1 player whos minding his own business playing how they want to play and then call that PvP!

I'm not asking for Less Meaningful pvp, if anything I'm saying the game needs the opposite. A Murderer needs to earn his name, earn his color, Earn his fear ! not a blue hiding behind guards waiting to strike on a unsuspecting victim.

You want to be a BLUE pvper then Guild wars / Faction wars!!

You want to be a PLAYER KILLER (PK) then go red, Take the risks that come with that. Earn your name and Title within the game.

Stop classing GANKING blues as PvP as its far from that !

I see and i understand some of leprechaun's points.

First of all yes, grouping up on someone for killing has consequences, for all the ones that did damage and ended up killing a blue. Standing and MC, with 5mc consider having a house near a red priest or get ressed by alt or friendly, not accessing towns have more than obvious reasons to be considered a solid punishment.
That is the reason why awareness is key element of survival, if enough people gets in range the higher the possibility you will get ganked.

Grouping up on a grey or murderer has no consequences whatsoever.

I myself been having super fun fights 1v2-3, fighting against odds with the very probable chance of getting murdercounts and standing loss. Engaging on such fights turns out to be quite a gamble, if the rewards will be worth not accessing towns or farming parcels, having a house with ressing and/or extensive naked runs from red priests to regear.

Then again, awareness is the greatest safety players can have. Theres some unavoidable conflict circunstances but a player should be prepared for combat scenarios.

But yes the whole law system is flawed and it should probably be reworked for encouraging conflict and player interaction. To balance the value of towns, localized law, lawless wilderness and proper spreading of content and resources.

 

[Albanjo Dravae]

The reality of the current PvP state

This type of rush inside a city is unacceptable.

The problem is most of the ppl who say they are great PVPer, That mages need nef, Red priest too Far ... Are just ppl trying to justify easy mode game. They are not trilling for a good game exp for all players they just want a MA simulator with griefing of a new player base, and try to justify this with stupid logic by saying, "you play bad, me kill noob, me better" or "me play MO1, me know things".

Such behavior is just to keep the Guild griefing and not have to deal with more gameplay variety and consequences.

I've heard the tindremic empire is on the verge of collapse, perhaps the emperor is truly dead and the headless tindremes can't afford to protect their towns.

 

[Albanjo Dravae]

I am not arguing about any thing and you have put nothing constructive forwards either lol
I am discussing murderer consequences and the fact that they need to be harsher to prevent the awful toxic attitude of some members of the mortals online 2 community. If you watch any of Henriks stream you would know more about what I talk about before you spill any more irrelevant rubbish.
He says in a lot of his streams about what his game is and what it is supposed to be, and that his game has realism elements whether you like it or not. The fact is its medieval inspired sandbox world you seem to have over looked the armour and weapons what are they inspired from? lol

Is there anything Henrique says that makes you think theres gonna be more penalties for criminal behavior? I generally see he answers dumb questions and promises fancy stuff.

The game does mimic reality in certain aspects but we can't be comparing a punitive system from human medieval time to a fictional scenario in a game to justify harder penalties to criminal behavior, thats shit stretching a little too much. It's really a different thing to talk about balance, risk reward, game experience, etc.

Idk what you consider a really toxic attitude from MO2 players. Is it the wilderness PVP? Non concensual? Is killing your ass worth having to take a 20m naked run back to town?

I think if you want to discuss this shit you need to get the penalized players perspective. To try and be objective instead of upset.

 

[Khulan]

Mortal should do what SWG did with resources and make it so that a resource's stats have a range. For example; steel used for a sword has a range of +14-16 slashing damage. Now, depending on where you mined that resource, the stats would be different. Get your rocks from the jungle? Only +14. Get it from high in the mountains? +16.

In SWG that is how it worked iirc, so not every blaster was equal, even among crafters with maxed out stats. Then every two weeks or so the resource stats from a particular area would change. So if a crafter wanted to be the best in his profession, he would keep having to explore and experiment in order to offer the best product made of the highest quality resources.

 

[Khulan]

Is there anything Henrique says that makes you think theres gonna be more penalties for criminal behavior? I generally see he answers dumb questions and promises fancy stuff.

The game does mimic reality in certain aspects but we can't be comparing a punitive system from human medieval time to a fictional scenario in a game to justify harder penalties to criminal behavior, thats shit stretching a little too much. It's really a different thing to talk about balance, risk reward, game experience, etc.

Idk what you consider a really toxic attitude from MO2 players. Is it the wilderness PVP? Non concensual? Is killing your ass worth having to take a 20m naked run back to town?

I think if you want to discuss this shit you need to get the penalized players perspective. To try and be objective instead of upset.

What would you say to a change where if you do a crime, you still go grey and you still keep the same criminal timer towards everyone, but to the person you actually committed the crime against, you go grey for like 24 hours or something like that. A long time.

The only thing I hate about the game so far is how some asshat can come into town, kill my horse and then abscond into the jungle for three minutes just to come back blue. In that situation, if I try to take revenge I'd get flagged and any white knights around will dog pile me. It's shitty.

 

[Skabsticles]

Is there anything Henrique says that makes you think theres gonna be more penalties for criminal behavior? I generally see he answers dumb questions and promises fancy stuff.

The game does mimic reality in certain aspects but we can't be comparing a punitive system from human medieval time to a fictional scenario in a game to justify harder penalties to criminal behavior, thats shit stretching a little too much. It's really a different thing to talk about balance, risk reward, game experience, etc.

Idk what you consider a really toxic attitude from MO2 players. Is it the wilderness PVP? Non concensual? Is killing your ass worth having to take a 20m naked run back to town?

I think if you want to discuss this shit you need to get the penalized players perspective. To try and be objective instead of upset.

Lol when does your fictional event become something that happens to someone who is playing in reality its all down to actions?
You just assume I don't have the perspective of a penalized player.. but who is more penalized the ganked or the ganker? in your opinion?
I never said to use the medieval punishment system from real life in the game you seem to have run with nothing on that. lol
All I was doing was merely pointing out everything in life has a consequence and a punishment fit for the criminal intent.
Mo1 had stat loss and red players....
Henrik likes to compare his game to his Ultimaonline days and the pk system in that game worked great and should be in this game to in my opinion,
as I played a murderer with a group as well as solo and I accepted the consequences of the actions.
Red should be Red unable to go into towns unless they are lawless or player pk towns etc.
And if they want to keep killing innocent non consenting blue players they should get stat loss when they rez or they should spend time as a ghost repenting there actions by doing time to removed murder counts.
This would make the majority of "brave" wanabe pk gankers think twice before killing someone.
They should have to earn the rewards of there gank with the fear of punishment.
Example - Blue player spends 1-2 hours traveling and farming some crafting resources 2-5-more players turn up to blue player showing as blue players and proceed to murder the blue player and take his 1-2 hours of stuff.... the out come is the blue player looses time and items..... The blue toxic gankers get what? All the items plus time for collecting them and they get a grey timer for 5 mins which will be well gone by the time they get back to a town and they just run a few deliveries and all is good in the world of a toxic ganker lol
If the devs want to retain a good community and player base people wont subscribe to be cannon fodder for the pleasure of the said toxic gankers who have zero consequences for there actions.

 

[Atom]

Lol when does your fictional event become something that happens to someone who is playing in reality its all down to actions?
You just assume I don't have the perspective of a penalized player.. but who is more penalized the ganked or the ganker? in your opinion?
I never said to use the medieval punishment system from real life in the game you seem to have run with nothing on that. lol
All I was doing was merely pointing out everything in life has a consequence and a punishment fit for the criminal intent.
Mo1 had stat loss and red players....
Henrik likes to compare his game to his Ultimaonline days and the pk system in that game worked great and should be in this game to in my opinion,
as I played a murderer with a group as well as solo and I accepted the consequences of the actions.
Red should be Red unable to go into towns unless they are lawless or player pk towns etc.
And if they want to keep killing innocent non consenting blue players they should get stat loss when they rez or they should spend time as a ghost repenting there actions by doing time to removed murder counts.
This would make the majority of "brave" wanabe pk gankers think twice before killing someone.
They should have to earn the rewards of there gank with the fear of punishment.
Example - Blue player spends 1-2 hours traveling and farming some crafting resources 2-5-more players turn up to blue player showing as blue players and proceed to murder the blue player and take his 1-2 hours of stuff.... the out come is the blue player looses time and items..... The blue toxic gankers get what? All the items plus time for collecting them and they get a grey timer for 5 mins which will be well gone by the time they get back to a town and they just run a few deliveries and all is good in the world of a toxic ganker lol
If the devs want to retain a good community and player base people wont subscribe to be cannon fodder for the pleasure of the said toxic gankers who have zero consequences for there actions.

Correct. The system is there to provide a framework for justice. In its current form it's the equivalent of a murderer getting an hour community service for killing 5 people. The penalties are not proportional.
"But I have to do parcel runs" yeah, but if you had to serve a penalty equivalent to the time you stole you'd be doing parcel runs for a week straight before you even got a sniff of a blue town again.
It all comes down to proportionality. The current system is far too forgiving and it is entirely unfair to the victims. And the fact of the matter is that there are a lot more victims than perpetrators. No system survives when it is designed to favour a minority over the majority. The majority must be able to at least sense justice has been served.

 

[Tzone]

Correct. The system is there to provide a framework for justice. In its current form it's the equivalent of a murderer getting an hour community service for killing 5 people. The penalties are not proportional.
"But I have to do parcel runs" yeah, but if you had to serve a penalty equivalent to the time you stole you'd be doing parcel runs for a week straight before you even got a sniff of a blue town again.
It all comes down to proportionality. The current system is far too forgiving and it is entirely unfair to the victims. And the fact of the matter is that there are a lot more victims than perpetrators. No system survives when it is designed to favour a minority over the majority. The majority must be able to at least sense justice has been served.

lol. like you know its a game right, there not actual murder going on. Its some pixels on the screen and your toon respawns. So there is not even death just pretend theft in the game if you want to have some moral debate on what is actually going on.

too forgiving lol, you are just dodging the fact that just having 5 MCs means you add 20 minutes minimum to your spawn time for ever as thats how long it takes to run back. Talking about time being stolen away, do you say the risar stole your time away when he killed you for walking to close to their territory? Should the pack of the wolves that killed you be forces to run parcels or else have to walk for 20 minutes back to their spawn?
You act as if PvP is a real life crime against you and thats just derangement or a lack of honesty because I cant see reasonable people thinking the way you do. Looks more like bad faith discussion to me.

The real thing going on here is just egotistical people throwing a fit that some one PvPd them and they cant cope like the rest of the normal people. Most people are like damn, I had adrenaline pumping that was exciting. And no you are not the majority.

The games only worth while content is PvP and you say that playing the content of the game is not punishing enough for the winners?
Go ahead and tell me that the PvE is good, I want to see if you will actually say the PvE with worth while content by its self with out any PvP.

How about you play as a red player for a lil bit. Dont go into towns, dont spawn at the blue priest, dont buy horses from blue towns, Have to go to GK or Kran to get anything done. Dont have access to the brokers, most mail, most crafting tables, refining, alchemy, alot of crushers and grinders are in guardzone, and so are most guild stones as well.

Utter non sense from you who hasn't experience the game at all. You people are either trying to be manipulative or just crazy to have the expressed views as you have.

 

[Skabsticles]

lol. like you know its a game right, there not actual murder going on. Its some pixels on the screen and your toon respawns. So there is not even death just pretend theft in the game if you want to have some moral debate on what is actually going on.

too forgiving lol, you are just dodging the fact that just having 5 MCs means you add 20 minutes minimum to your spawn time for ever as thats how long it takes to run back. Talking about time being stolen away, do you say the risar stole your time away when he killed you for walking to close to their territory? Should the pack of the wolves that killed you be forces to run parcels or else have to walk for 20 minutes back to their spawn?
You act as if PvP is a real life crime against you and thats just derangement or a lack of honesty because I cant see reasonable people thinking the way you do. Looks more like bad faith discussion to me.

The real thing going on here is just egotistical people throwing a fit that some one PvPd them and they cant cope like the rest of the normal people. Most people are like damn, I had adrenaline pumping that was exciting. And no you are not the majority.

The games only worth while content is PvP and you say that playing the content of the game is not punishing enough for the winners?
Go ahead and tell me that the PvE is good, I want to see if you will actually say the PvE with worth while content by its self with out any PvP.

How about you play as a red player for a lil bit. Dont go into towns, dont spawn at the blue priest, dont buy horses from blue towns, Have to go to GK or Kran to get anything done. Dont have access to the brokers, most mail, most crafting tables, refining, alchemy, alot of crushers and grinders are in guardzone, and so are most guild stones as well.

Utter non sense from you who hasn't experience the game at all. You people are either trying to be manipulative or just crazy to have the expressed views as you have.

This is all your "opinion" though right? You like to just ignore everyone else's "opinions" because of the way you like to act in a game towards people - that in my "opinion" is like one of the toxic gankers without harsh enough consequences.
Your justifying bad game play so you can enjoy getting off on the pleasure of others misery?
The trouble is you forget behind those pixels is a person who is playing the game the same as you, and if they aren't happy with it they wont play and that leads to an even emptier dead game with less people for you to kill for your toxic pleasure.
I am of the "opinion" that think people like you would like the game to fail and may even enjoy the pleasure of making the game fail.
I read your comments and you have described your self well in every sense by calling other egotistical, Classing your self as normal when in fact you portray the exact definition of egotistical.
You do point out 1 valid point they have lost the majority of blue players who you say are not the majority, why? because of the game mechanics as they currently are. The game has ended up with a small and shrinking population many of whom don't like the game in its current state but they see the lost potential in the game and are disappointed.
Pve risars do not loot you after killing you and you can collect your body just saying those remarks have no comparison.
In your "opinion" pvp is the only good content but everyone is different, this is something you find hard to accept.
In my "opinion" you are trying to be manipulative in order to avoid the consequences of your actions in game which currently are zero cause for concern for a wana be red only grey ganker.

 

[Khulan]

Just so we are clear, there are certainly powerful consequences for red players, gankers, greifers and their ilk. Not the least of which is social ostracism. There are people who, even if blue, cannot enter JC without getting skewered by the locals because of how notorious they have let themselves become.

The Khurite Allied Tribes aren't the only ones who pay attention to reputation. Players do it, too.

On top of that, gear is very easy to acquire. It should not take you 1-2 hours of resource grinding to fill up your horse bags with average-ish crafting materials. One suit of armour is what, like 1000 resources? You can probably field butcher sators for 20 minutes and have enough for 10 sets, including incisium swords or whatever you like to use, which would be comparable to flakestone.

If you think that red players don't face consequences, do yourself a favour and ghost to any red priest you'd like and rez there and then run back to town. Some towns are better and have a priest in a decent location, like Bakti, where you can actually run into wild horses about halfway back, but some towns like JC have a red priest that is basically mired at the doorstep to hell. No horses. Long run. Panthers. Oh, and a fucking troll that spawns so close to the priest that it can wander into aggro range on reviving players.

 

[Albanjo Dravae]

What would you say to a change where if you do a crime, you still go grey and you still keep the same criminal timer towards everyone, but to the person you actually committed the crime against, you go grey for like 24 hours or something like that.

That actually sounds more fun than the shit ingame but without certain measures it would probably be really exploitable.

Lol when does your fictional event become something that happens to someone who is playing in reality its all down to actions?
You just assume I don't have the perspective of a penalized player.. but who is more penalized the ganked or the ganker? in your opinion?
I never said to use the medieval punishment system from real life in the game you seem to have run with nothing on that. lol
All I was doing was merely pointing out everything in life has a consequence and a punishment fit for the criminal intent.
Mo1 had stat loss and red players....
Henrik likes to compare his game to his Ultimaonline days and the pk system in that game worked great and should be in this game to in my opinion,
as I played a murderer with a group as well as solo and I accepted the consequences of the actions.
Red should be Red unable to go into towns unless they are lawless or player pk towns etc.
And if they want to keep killing innocent non consenting blue players they should get stat loss when they rez or they should spend time as a ghost repenting there actions by doing time to removed murder counts.
This would make the majority of "brave" wanabe pk gankers think twice before killing someone.
They should have to earn the rewards of there gank with the fear of punishment.
Example - Blue player spends 1-2 hours traveling and farming some crafting resources 2-5-more players turn up to blue player showing as blue players and proceed to murder the blue player and take his 1-2 hours of stuff.... the out come is the blue player looses time and items..... The blue toxic gankers get what? All the items plus time for collecting them and they get a grey timer for 5 mins which will be well gone by the time they get back to a town and they just run a few deliveries and all is good in the world of a toxic ganker lol
If the devs want to retain a good community and player base people wont subscribe to be cannon fodder for the pleasure of the said toxic gankers who have zero consequences for there actions.

Well, who is more* penalized depends on the context of the possible situations and respective outcomes, the other day i killed a mage with 1000g and i didn't even get an mc or standing loss cuz probably altF4d or like the other day i killed 3 dudes farming bandits and a 4th killed me resulting on multiple mcs and the loss of gear, horse and loot.

Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose it's the nature of the game, now it's the role or gameplay which generally helps preventing conflict when not looking for combat, for example transporting or farming.

For example i found the mage with 1000g next to a road riding a mongrel horse, how would anyone even consider doing such an outrageous thing, having some kind of godlike confidence that everything will be allright.
Having enough awareness and investing on cheap resources to increase success rate to such trip would probably change the outcome of that situation, for that player definitely a valuable understanding on how not to transport.

Now penalties to crimes are only ment to punish to a certain extent, will a murdercount and standing loss compensate for that 1k g that dude Lost? Definitely not.
Is it supposed to compensate that loss? No.

Was that fight worth the multiple mcs and standing loss, having to run from red priests and regear? It's a rolldice, it could have been worth but it wasn't.

Players need to understand how to capitalize resources for increasing the chances of survival.

Statloss in MO1 was eventually almost* completly bypassed by a lot of mechanics and basically TC red priests. It was the right thing to do and everyone enjoyed it.
Spiritisim expell spirit did give statloss to players auto ressing in blues priests which was a really hardcore way to fuck someone's character specially when several spiritists did it.
Gladly theres no statloss and the only way it should be added (if ir has to) is if theres TC redpriests.

UO can suck a dick, this game is partially based on uo shit, it's not a clone or supposed to be, so thats not a real argument.

If you don't farm parcels u get negative and u can't access towns, if You do farm parcels u waste time doing that shit just to access Town, call it paying for your sins or community service. The game is not perma death and shouldn't penalize like if it were, shit is ephemeral and people should understand thats the concept of the game.

Game is risk reward if You feel competent enough to farm for 2h and bank without getting ganked good for You, You would have to definitely be aware of your surroundings and dangers of the wilderness, the possibility anyone could see your horsebags maybe would want your shit.
Me? When i'm farming and not looking for conflict i generally get away from situations faster than they can kill me, i just pay attention to the environment, yet can't have that luxury in some points of interest or closed places such as dungeons, for example.

If i can generally avoid conflict when i'm farming why wouldn't anyone else do it. Why would players want to relay on punishment mechanics to avenge them.

Then i'm really against timesink punishment to force players not to play the game, thats a concept from another era of gaming and shouldn't even be considered due to it's shitty approach for game experience.

 

[Skabsticles]

Just so we are clear, there are certainly powerful consequences for red players, gankers, greifers and their ilk. Not the least of which is social ostracism. There are people who, even if blue, cannot enter JC without getting skewered by the locals because of how notorious they have let themselves become.

The Khurite Allied Tribes aren't the only ones who pay attention to reputation. Players do it, too.

On top of that, gear is very easy to acquire. It should not take you 1-2 hours of resource grinding to fill up your horse bags with average-ish crafting materials. One suit of armour is what, like 1000 resources? You can probably field butcher sators for 20 minutes and have enough for 10 sets, including incisium swords or whatever you like to use, which would be comparable to flakestone.

If you think that red players don't face consequences, do yourself a favour and ghost to any red priest you'd like and rez there and then run back to town. Some towns are better and have a priest in a decent location, like Bakti, where you can actually run into wild horses about halfway back, but some towns like JC have a red priest that is basically mired at the doorstep to hell. No horses. Long run. Panthers. Oh, and a fucking troll that spawns so close to the priest that it can wander into aggro range on reviving players.

Just so we are clear? there isn't powerful consequences for grey wanabe reds that's the whole idea of the post if there was I wouldn't have to write the post and people wouldn't feel the way they do about toxic murderer gankers..
You say gear is very easy to acquire but it depends on the gear you want and because its easy to acquire that doesn't mean its good gear. Spawns are empty closer to towns so you have to travel and spend time doing so.
Example - if you are in the town of Bakti or any where near the middle of the map you have to do a lot of traveling to spawn locations. Say snapping turtles far south for heavy carapace that takes a lot of time traveling and if you can avoid getting lost and other material farmers and even local residents with houses and hopfully not get killed maybe you will fill your horse up then yes that could take hours! Or if you might just want to farm calks along a river maybe even have 2 horses to fill up..... Lots of time unless you know a faster way to mining could take hours........
I do think grey wana be red players don't face harsh enough consequences and I am not the only person. If you think ghost running to your favoured priest is a task then I disagree with that also its a piece of cake and fast to run as a ghost rez tame a new a horse and travel to a blue city which you should not be allowed in if you are a true red player and get killed on sight for your murdering actions by the guards.

 

[Skabsticles]

That actually sounds more fun than the shit ingame but without certain measures it would probably be really exploitable.



Well, who is more* penalized depends on the context of the possible situations and respective outcomes, the other day i killed a mage with 1000g and i didn't even get an mc or standing loss cuz probably altF4d or like the other day i killed 3 dudes farming bandits and a 4th killed me resulting on multiple mcs and the loss of gear, horse and loot.

Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose it's the nature of the game, now it's the role or gameplay which generally helps preventing conflict when not looking for combat, for example transporting or farming.

For example i found the mage with 1000g next to a road riding a mongrel horse, how would anyone even consider doing such an outrageous thing, having some kind of godlike confidence that everything will be allright.
Having enough awareness and investing on cheap resources to increase success rate to such trip would probably change the outcome of that situation, for that player definitely a valuable understanding on how not to transport.

Now penalties to crimes are only ment to punish to a certain extent, will a murdercount and standing loss compensate for that 1k g that dude Lost? Definitely not.
Is it supposed to compensate that loss? No.

Was that fight worth the multiple mcs and standing loss, having to run from red priests and regear? It's a rolldice, it could have been worth but it wasn't.

Players need to understand how to capitalize resources for increasing the chances of survival.

Statloss in MO1 was eventually almost* completly bypassed by a lot of mechanics and basically TC red priests. It was the right thing to do and everyone enjoyed it.
Spiritisim expell spirit did give statloss to players auto ressing in blues priests which was a really hardcore way to fuck someone's character specially when several spiritists did it.
Gladly theres no statloss and the only way it should be added (if ir has to) is if theres TC redpriests.

UO can suck a dick, this game is partially based on uo shit, it's not a clone or supposed to be, so thats not a real argument.

If you don't farm parcels u get negative and u can't access towns, if You do farm parcels u waste time doing that shit just to access Town, call it paying for your sins or community service. The game is not perma death and shouldn't penalize like if it were, shit is ephemeral and people should understand thats the concept of the game.

Game is risk reward if You feel competent enough to farm for 2h and bank without getting ganked good for You, You would have to definitely be aware of your surroundings and dangers of the wilderness, the possibility anyone could see your horsebags maybe would want your shit.
Me? When i'm farming and not looking for conflict i generally get away from situations faster than they can kill me, i just pay attention to the environment, yet can't have that luxury in some points of interest or closed places such as dungeons, for example.

If i can generally avoid conflict when i'm farming why wouldn't anyone else do it. Why would players want to relay on punishment mechanics to avenge them.

Then i'm really against timesink punishment to force players not to play the game, thats a concept from another era of gaming and shouldn't even be considered due to it's shitty approach for game experience.

I am guessing you are a full plate mounted archer lol
I bet you was so proud of killing a really nerfed solo mage and taking that gold! He was riding a mongrel horse! Face it you saw some one who you thought was an easy target maybe even a noob because you would have to be one to ride a mongrel horse.. You might have thought twice if there was harsher consequences and you say timesink punishments force players not to play? maybe that mage doesn't play the game any more because of your proud actions? What does that lead to? An even emptier game congratulations. You are awarded by me a 5 star toxic ganker award lol
And I bet you think you are so empowered attacking some one already fighting bandits.... lol you sound like a wanabe red pk.
Thats not pvp as much as you sugar coat it that is cowardly and toxic.
Ultimaonline was a great game don't hate because you aren't old enough to have enjoyed the glory days! And your beloved game Dev Henrik compares mo2 to Ultimaonline all the time!!! soo suck it up!
Doing parcels is the easiest thing to do and doesn't consume much time at all maybe 10 mins town to town.
Murder timer even goes down when your offline now who's ever idea that was its a terrible idea.
The game Devs cant even fix the bug where people cant give murder counts so murderers are even getting away with murders more often than they should.
I love the way people who want to murder and take away other peoples time and efforts just try to justify it by saying it takes them time to reequip if they die lol its crazy and very selfish thinking.

 

[Atom]

I am guessing you are a full plate mounted archer lol
I bet you was so proud of killing a really nerfed solo mage and taking that gold! He was riding a mongrel horse! Face it you saw some one who you thought was an easy target maybe even a noob because you would have to be one to ride a mongrel horse.. You might have thought twice if there was harsher consequences and you say timesink punishments force players not to play? maybe that mage doesn't play the game any more because of your proud actions? What does that lead to? An even emptier game congratulations. Your awarded by me a 5 star toxic ganker award lol
And I bet you think you are so empowered attacking some one already fighting bandits.... lol you sound like a wanabe red pk.
Thats not pvp as much as you sugar coat it that is cowardly and toxic.
Ultimaonline was a great game don't hate because you aren't old enough to have enjoyed the glory days! And your beloved game Dev Henrik compares mo2 to Ultimaonline all the time!!! soo suck it up!
Doing parcels is the easiest thing to do and doesn't consume much time at all maybe 10 mins town to town.
Murder timer even goes down when your offline now who's ever idea that was its a terrible idea.
The game Devs cant even fix the bug where people cant give murder counts so murderers are even getting away with murders more often than they should.
I love the way people who want to murder and take away other peoples time and efforts just try to justify it by saying it takes them time to reequip if they die lol its crazy and very selfish thinking.

The penalties beyond rep revolve around a huge IF: IF they get killed.
The small groups that only engage in fights that they are guaranteed to win (3,4,5v1) don't have any death penalties at all because they don't take any risks. And they are always the ones to defend their actions by saying "everything carries a risk".
The rank hypocrisy of some of the most risk averse players in game using risk to defend their actions is what really annoys me.
The guy who goes out solo to farm whatever is the "carebear" but the guys who need to hold someone's hand while beating down a solo are the "hardcore PvPers". Laughable.