Murder Counts/Standing is Worthless

[MortalEnjoyer42069]

The murder count and standing system is supposed to be a method for which the player is held accountable for their actions in game and to prevent endless murder of new players and players around the town regions. Both the murder count and standing systems fail to meet this goal. Towns, the small area around them, and any low level dungeons associated should be locations for player to build their character, improve their skills, and if they choose, to setup home. If you want to live out your entire MO2 career from within the safety of the city, that should be ok. With the recent emphasis on Haven and the new player experience, SV needs to make changes to how murder is handled in the game or it is going to be a waste of time. These are my recommendations for a new anti-murder system.

Towns (1+ KM Radius)
Includes the sewers/low level dungeons linked to them.

Murder inside the town area incurs the following.

• -25 Standing
• Ban from town (24 real hours). Attacked on sight by town guards
• 1 Murder count

Red Changes

• 10 MC = Red (Same as now)
• Red attacked by all guards
• No MC decay while offline.
• 8 hour in game MC decay time (Same as now)

Standing Changes

• Remove lower threshold for negative standing.
• Attacked by guards if negative standing (Same as now).
• Disable task acceptance/completion if negative standing with that faction.

Dungeon Changes

• All end game level dungeons are lawless zones.

 

[Emdash]

They need to heavily prune guards for something like that. I see standing as poorly implemented. It's amazing you can't gain standing doing tasks (afaik?) Also, the fact that you can get near perma locked out of some cities unless you wanna run to cave camp or something is wack. Also, it's wack that each town does not have its own rep haha.

I really believe it's better for the game for reds to be able to enter town. I think reds should be treated the same as blues around guards. If people can't properly attack a red in the wild or wait for them to get out of town, that's their own fail. It's not 'fair' that people can gang up on Reds in town.

The biggest flag problem rears its head: that until people are grey to you, they cannot be targeted. So you can be jumped by 4 people and maybe only two go grey and if you hit one of the other 2, you open yourself up to getting camped.

I suggested this on Mortal Reddit and people shit, as they normally do, but...

I think guilds should have flags associated with them. I think there should be a few, depending on the flag and the size of the guild, 'civilian' tags for people who can stay blue regardless. Killing those people would incur a penalty beyond killing a regular guild. Like you'd lose a good amount of prom or something.

Guild tags could be BLUE, and a blue civilian would be massive prom loss, regular blue would be some prom loss. GREY which would just be open pvp. Grey could fight other grey, minus civilians. That would be the middle of the line. No idea how they would determine how many guild PKs would be necessary for a change, but I am sure it could be figured out, then RED would be all guildies are open pvp to everyone, including blues. They would still have civilians, but they would give less of a penalty to be killed. If a blue guild was griefing civilians, they could potentially change flag.

OF COURSE as with everything, one would have to make sure they weren't using that mechanic to grief or exploit the system, but it could be simple enough, something like if they were out w/ other people, they wouldn't be a civilian. It would be when they were doing whatever solo in certain areas, like areas more around town.

I dunno, I'm not fleshing it out completely atm... haha, but I feel something like that would be best, and to make guards be much weaker. Let red guilds fight other red and grey guilds. Trust that players can police their own shit, but definitely put some guards to deter people.

I don't support ideas that are gonna squash pvp around or in towns. I want it to cause worldwide conflict. That's how it worked when I played, it was always some shit like that then next thing you know, someone got sieged.

 

[MortalEnjoyer42069]

It's amazing you can't gain standing doing tasks (afaik?)

You gain a shitload of standing from tasks.

 

[Emdash]

You gain a shitload of standing from tasks.

ah nice, did not know that. As it should be. Having to run parcels is wack.

 

[MortalEnjoyer42069]

And this video is exactly what I'm talking about. I'm on a brand new character(just got of Haven at clade two). I go to mess with this guy like I'm gonna attack him. I proceed to get zerged by six players in full plate in the starter dungeon. Just 5 minutes prior to my zerging, I had someone with 5 wolves kill me in the same dungeon completely unprovoked. It's situations like these that make people immediately quit after they leave Haven.

And then you got this guy wearing full steel with a steel axe in a noob zone, ready to slaughter some fresh Haven players that are going to wonder why they hit for zero. Like what are we thinking here SV. Hur Hur, steel veteran crushes naked noob. So funny. You guys are just setting these players up for failure.

 

[Emdash]

I dunno. The way it's supposed to work is that if you are out trolling in full steel, a few people will come and take it from you. That's the way it was in MO1. Like imagine trying to grief the GY in steel. lol. Someone will take it from you. That's the idea of full loot. There needs to be a less heavy handed solution than just adding guards or penalties, imo, it's bad for the economy.

The vid you got zerged, it was just a bunch of dudes. Oh well. I do think that if a guild attacks you that they should all be local grey to you at the very least, though. People in MO are looking for an excuse to kill someone, what else is new.

They need to let people fight it out imo.

Rep should be to keep people from raw griefing like pet killing etc and perma flag (like red) should be to make people attackable. Then work on the game. There need to be more rewards coming out of towns; that was my point in the 'society' thread. They need to have towns create resources like money (not thru tasks but like a daily allocation) so people can live the town life and players can actually be guards without having to farm. It'd work out.

I posted this on Reddit, but a sandbox interaction that ends with an NPC is a failure, and I still think that. It needs to resonate through the world to drive activity.

 

[Zazz]

Killing someone who is weaker then you or zerging a random player is cheap and easy, without penalty, so people just do it.
Right now murder-hobos just stay blue if they know they will get killed and go grey if they know they can easily kill someone.

But the penalty for murdering should not be "you can never enter towns again" but some form of recognizing for other players that they have a dickhead in front of them.
Reporting someone for murder and murdercounts barely does that job though.

First it needs to be easy to be at war with guilds so guild wars don't get you tons of murder counts. I'm not sure how good that is implemented right now.
Then you need a persisting murdercount which doesn't affect NPCs but is an indicator for other players. Call it "Lawful/Outlaw Standing".

It should be timelocked/hard to get from Outlaw to Lawful and being an Outlaw just gives you a flag on your name or color (orange for instance) which tells all other players that you gathered up murder counts. Then players in the game themself will happily engage you and thus policing the game. New players will also know who to avoid and you can easily recognize who is lawful and will not just randomly gank you.

 

[MortalEnjoyer42069]

Keep in mind I only want the time lock in town regions. This doesn't stop you from playing, and doesnt stop you from doing the dungeon you are doing. What it does do is make you think about your actions in and around the town zone and makes it so you can't immediately bank what you have just stolen into a town bank. The game needs to have some realism. On what planet can you just walk into a town, start blasting and everyone will be cool with you hanging around after youve been caught.

Like right now the standing/murder system is a joke. I'm at max standing everywhere. I do tasks pretty much constantly. So much so that I enter town, kill some pets, revive, and then turn in my tasks like nothing happened and I'm back at full standing.

 

[finegamingconnoisseur]

And this video is exactly what I'm talking about. I'm on a brand new character(just got of Haven at clade two). I go to mess with this guy like I'm gonna attack him. I proceed to get zerged by six players in full plate in the starter dungeon. Just 5 minutes prior to my zerging, I had someone with 5 wolves kill me in the same dungeon completely unprovoked. It's situations like these that make people immediately quit after they leave Haven.

And then you got this guy wearing full steel with a steel axe in a noob zone, ready to slaughter some fresh Haven players that are going to wonder why they hit for zero. Like what are we thinking here SV. Hur Hur, steel veteran crushes naked noob. So funny. You guys are just setting these players up for failure.

Hmm not sure what you meant by overpowered vets killing noobs in the two videos.

The first one looked like a naked guy running away from you because you were chasing him with a dagger that was hitting scoundrels for ~65 damage (pretty impressive, I might add). The steel-clad guys looked like they might have been the naked guy's friends or bodyguards?

The second video is just a steel-clad guy standing still while you got attacked by a scoundrel and you were also standing still?

Maybe I'm missing something, but not sure what is the connection here?

 

[MortalEnjoyer42069]

Hmm not sure what you meant by overpowered vets killing noobs in the two videos.

The first one looked like a naked guy running away from you because you were chasing him with a dagger that was hitting scoundrels for ~65 damage (pretty impressive, I might add). The steel-clad guys looked like they might have been the naked guy's friends or bodyguards?

The second video is just a steel-clad guy standing still while you got attacked by a scoundrel and you were also standing still?

Maybe I'm missing something, but not sure what is the connection here?

Never once said over powered vets. It's veterans killing noobs when they should be doing other content. They are driving away new players. The second video just shows the gear tier people are going into the sewers with, it's ridiculous. There is no punishment to these players curb stomping the few new players we are getting.

I was intentionally getting killed by AI as someone tried to kill me and failed. Gotta give that MC.

 

[finegamingconnoisseur]

Never once said over powered vets. It's veterans killing noobs when they should be doing other content. They are driving away new players. The second video just shows the gear tier people are going into the sewers with, it's ridiculous. There is no punishment to these players curb stomping the few new players we are getting.

I was intentionally getting killed by AI as someone tried to kill me and failed. Gotta give that MC.

It could be argued that steel plate and steel axe are relatively overpowered versus noobs that have nothing close to that and hence "hit for zero" against that kind of gear.

I'm not disagreeing that getting ganked by vets using that kind of gear can drive some new players away. Or that murdering innocents should have meaningful consequences.

 

[Rahz]

Guilds should get flagged like Emdash said. And if your guild turns red there should be no siege timers for sieging the scoundrels out of "guarded" areas (such as Tindremic/Khurite Empires).Meaning ninja sieges as a consequence for bad behaviour.
I wouldnt really care about reds in town if it wasnt for that constant town griefing. Its just annoying to not be able to fish without the same 3 guys trying to push you into the water over and over again. Its fun if it CAN happen and theres some skill and/or tactic behind it, but right now there isnt, its just shit. Hitting someone with Gravity snare should also make the guards attack you imo. Its obviously attempted murder and if it succeeds its not even prosecuted.
Same for killing pets, it should at least lower the murderers standing.
Only thing I disagree with in Emdash's comment really is the "fairness" point. It was also unfair when a steel clad bearlancer attacked a naked guy and onebanged his horse, thats why they are red. The ganker most likely has a zerg-tag anyway, so why should he be able to go to blue towns? Go to Kranesh lol, meet other people like you. (edit because my translation was bad, sry 28 degrees celsius in my apartment and just off work)

 

[Emdash]

Never once said over powered vets. It's veterans killing noobs when they should be doing other content. They are driving away new players. The second video just shows the gear tier people are going into the sewers with, it's ridiculous. There is no punishment to these players curb stomping the few new players we are getting.

I was intentionally getting killed by AI as someone tried to kill me and failed. Gotta give that MC.

some of my favorite memories of being a nub was when other vets came to help us defeat a geared PKer, even if they were just geared compared to us. It gave us a sense of belonging. People talk about trinkets being end game content, but looking at people who are super strong and having other strong people come help you defeat them and maybe letting you take the gear is great content, much better than a dungeon or miniboss or whatever. That's how I see the game should be.

I grew up in MK and people giving me weps and going out to fight w/ us was so cool, fighting RPK and all. That was good content. I admit I moved away from MK, but that was more to do with the fact I had to get to Bakti for soph food ingredients. Then most people in Bakti were arpk and we'd band together to fight people even if not everyone was so great.

Guards made little difference. Reds were red. Like I said let reds stay red, let them be marked for awhile. It's different tho depending on whether you loot someone, tag someone, or kill someone. But if someone actually kills (not feeling the whole one hit = MC, the whole you hit my pet = suicide thing haha,) I'm cool with that being on them for awhile, even if they aren't red. People being open pvp is a good thing. It gives people a chance to get back at them or it opens them up to being ganked themselves. The fact that people are blue then it's like hehehe is indeed a problem, but I don't see where going in and out of towns relates to that.

I want the people to be in and around towns because that's content.