Murder count/flagging system

[Kelzyr]

I recently started getting back into testing/playing since magic was released and noticed the old murder count system exists in the game. I remember last year the system was supposed to be a lot more intricate and more regional.

Is this something that will be added before the persistent release or are we going to have to live with the old basic blue/gray/red system again?

**I only bring this up because it feels like it hasn't been talked about recently**

 

[BleckCat]

Theres a rep system on top. Murder goes away, rep loss is earn back. Not good to stop griefer i think. There will be loophole.

 

[Teknique]

It’s the same system except now guards won’t attack you if you’re red.

Instead they’ll attack you if you have poor reputation.


I feel like basically everyone is gonna punch you naked to find out your flag

 

[Kelzyr]

So you can go into a city if you're red, but if people know you are red they can kill you in town and the guards won't help? Is there still going to be statloss for red characters?

 

[Teknique]

So you can go into a city if you're red, but if people know you are red they can kill you in town and the guards won't help? Is there still going to be statloss for red characters?

yes guards won't help, and I assume yes.

Guards will only attack if you harm an innocent or are negative rep.

 

[Kaemik]

yes guards won't help, and I assume yes.

Guards will only attack if you harm an innocent or are negative rep.

Has anyone done much testing with what is and isn't allowed? Like if I roll into town with 3 friends, someone sees we are red, attacks one of my friends, and then I attack them will I get killed by the guards? Or even worse will I get killed for self-defense?

In either scenario, you would be pretty-much requiring reds to kill all the guards to come into town. Hopefully, the intent is that if you are blue, and you attack someone, it opens you up to counterattack even if it doesn't hurt your standing.

Also, on the murder system. The online vs. offline part is horrid. People are going to be running up powerbills just to lose murdercount while offline in video games if they care about ever becoming blue again. I'd prefer they do something like make the timer run for a day or two after your last login, and then increase time as much as is needed to compensate for that.

That way you don't lose red status every time you take a break from the game. But you're not sitting there running your computer all night so you can sit in your house logged in as your murder count bleeds down.

 

[Teknique]

Has anyone done much testing with what is and isn't allowed? Like if I roll into town with 3 friends, someone sees we are red, attacks one of my friends, and then I attack them will I get killed by the guards? Or even worse will I get killed for self-defense?

In either scenario, you would be pretty-much requiring reds to kill all the guards to come into town. Hopefully, the intent is that if you are blue, and you attack someone, it opens you up to counterattack even if it doesn't hurt your standing.

Also, on the murder system. The online vs. offline part is horrid. People are going to be running up powerbills just to lose murdercount while offline in video games if they care about ever becoming blue again. I'd prefer they do something like make the timer run for a day or two after your last login, and then increase time as much as is needed to compensate for that.

That way you don't lose red status every time you take a break from the game. But you're not sitting there running your computer all night so you can sit in your house logged in as your murder count bleeds down.

All of this has been common feedback.

Yes if you help your friend you will be attacked by the guards because you've struck an innocent.

The offline system was basically pleaded for to be changed and has been ignored. Mainly because SV seems to believe that people want it even though I don't think there is anyone who thinks that is a good idea minus a few usual suspects.

I don't anticipate that you will want to visit a town as red and nothing has fundamentally changed about going red.

 

[Kelzyr]

I agree @Kaemik, if this is how they thought to make the system better I'm sorely disappointed.

IMO I think a system of localized murder counts makes a lot more sense. Basically meaning you can have a town/region (however they'd define it) that you wouldn't murder in but you can pvp freely outside of that area with the only drawback being you would lose rep with those towns and in turn couldn't enter those towns because the guards will kill you.

Obviously there would be those who live out of a red town or a guild keep and will kill anywhere if they want to be an RPK guild, but for those who don't want the hassle of owning a keep or live in a red town are vastly limited in their ability to pvp outside of guild wars. I really hope they rework this lazy murder count system.

 

[Teknique]

I agree @Kaemik, if this is how they thought to make the system better I'm sorely disappointed.

IMO I think a system of localized murder counts makes a lot more sense. Basically meaning you can have a town/region (however they'd define it) that you wouldn't murder in but you can pvp freely outside of that area with the only drawback being you would lose rep with those towns and in turn couldn't enter those towns because the guards will kill you.

Obviously there would be those who live out of a red town or a guild keep and will kill anywhere if they want to be an RPK guild, but for those who don't want the hassle of owning a keep or live in a red town are vastly limited in their ability to pvp outside of guild wars. I really hope they rework this lazy murder count system.

Yes I tried addressing this but a ran into a wall of

"but murder is illegal"

"why would the khurites care if you commited your murder far away you are still a murderer"

When I asked how they would even know this occurred. I got a pretty dumb answer like "The cities keep in touch with eachother"

how my man? Email?

 

[Kelzyr]

I want to correct what I said too actually.....

All you need is the reputation system. Get rid of the murder count system entirely. If you have good rep in an area you can walk freely in the towns, if you have bad rep in the area you are treated as a 'red' character in that area.

If you want to keep statloss you can set it up such that if you rez with a priest in an area where your rep is bad you will get stat loss, but if you rez in an area where your rep is high you don't.

Its seems like a much more enjoyable system rather than the global murder count system. The murder count system is easily abused and layering a rep system on top of it will not make it better.

 

[Teknique]

I want to correct what I said too actually.....

All you need is the reputation system. Get rid of the murder count system entirely. If you have good rep in an area you can walk freely in the towns, if you have bad rep in the area you are treated as a 'red' character in that area.

If you want to keep statloss you can set it up such that if you rez with a priest in an area where your rep is bad you will get stat loss, but if you rez in an area where your rep is high you don't.

Its seems like a much more enjoyable system rather than the global murder count system. The murder count system is easily abused and layering a rep system on top of it will not make it better.

perfect fixed in 2 seconds.

sigh...

This game had a chance but there were some trolls man.

We'll still play it and have fun of course but with the same level of frustration and fat mages parrying with shields of course.

 

[Kaemik]

Honestly localized rep is good for the game. You can go and kill people in other towns, and their guards will help them but attack you. They can come to do the same to you, and you still have a safe area.

I imagine a lot of vets will become universal reds. Reds everywhere with every rep. Who the localized system benefits most is newish players who want to fight but also don't want to be exiled to Kranesh and GK where all the old hardened reds live. They can kind of pick a faction and go kill the enemies of that faction to get their toes wet while still having a safer town to call home.

Of course, they can also ride with HoJ and burn and pillage across the land as a nomadic force of destruction but we shouldn't be the ONLY choice for newbs.

 

[Eldrath]

I want to correct what I said too actually.....

All you need is the reputation system. Get rid of the murder count system entirely. If you have good rep in an area you can walk freely in the towns, if you have bad rep in the area you are treated as a 'red' character in that area.

If you want to keep statloss you can set it up such that if you rez with a priest in an area where your rep is bad you will get stat loss, but if you rez in an area where your rep is high you don't.

Its seems like a much more enjoyable system rather than the global murder count system. The murder count system is easily abused and layering a rep system on top of it will not make it better.

What makes you think that the standing system will not be abused?

 

[Kelzyr]

What makes you think that the standing system will not be abused?

If there is a mechanic, people will find a way to abuse it, I'm not delusional in thinking the localized rep system wouldn't have some way to abuse it.

My main point is that adding the reputation system on top of the old system doesn't really do anything but make a bizzare system of being red in a town just to be killed by a player in the town without being able to defend yourself...there would be no reason for you to play a red character any differently than before.

The localized rep at least leads to different ways to play as a PvP-er. If rep is gained through farming mobs/selling materials/etc. this will force people to go out into the world, rather than AFK up on some mountain as a ghost to lose your murder counts so you can go back into tindrem after pvping out in the world.

 

[Teknique]

If there is a mechanic, people will find a way to abuse it, I'm not delusional in thinking the localized rep system wouldn't have some way to abuse it.

My main point is that adding the reputation system on top of the old system doesn't really do anything but make a bizzare system of being red in a town just to be killed by a player in the town without being able to defend yourself...there would be no reason for you to play a red character any differently than before.

The localized rep at least leads to different ways to play as a PvP-er. If rep is gained through farming mobs/selling materials/etc. this will force people to go out into the world, rather than AFK up on some mountain as a ghost to lose your murder counts so you can go back into tindrem after pvping out in the world.

To be clear you can defend yourself because the person will be “local grey”

But if a 100 blues are hitting you your friends can’t help

 

[Kelzyr]

To be clear you can defend yourself because the person will be “local grey”

But if a 100 blues are hitting you your friends can’t help

Fair enough, but it still leads to a system where your average player would play the exact same way as before to avoid that situation.

 

[Rorry]

To be clear you can defend yourself because the person will be “local grey”

But if a 100 blues are hitting you your friends can’t help

Not, currently, no. Unless you have tested it? As far as I can tell if you fight back you will be attacked by guards.

 

[Rorry]

There are currently only 2 regions (not sure what to call the risar one) Tindremic and Khurite, but as of now one can be murdered in one and rez and give MC's in the other. Anyone who played MO1 will know that there will be people eager to ghost to your home area in order to give MC's.

At one point you could also give the same person multiple MC's at the same rez, but I don't know if it is still that way.

 

[Kelzyr]

There are currently only 2 regions (not sure what to call the risar one) Tindremic and Khurite, but as of now one can be murdered in one and rez and give MC's in the other.

Yeah as of right now they have all these different reputations that really don't make sense for Myrland. I would think they would do something like 4-5 different regions of the map, maybe grouping 1-3 cities in that region. So for example the following could be regions:

Tindrem/Fab/Kranesh
Meduli and associated desert
Vadda/Bakti/Mo'ki
MK/Toxai
GK/Cave Camp

Obviously it doesn't have to be this way but this gives a general idea of what I was thinking.

Anyone who played MO1 will know that there will be people eager to ghost to your home area in order to give MC's.

At one point you could also give the same person multiple MC's at the same rez, but I don't know if it is still that way.

I feel this could be easily fixed by the devs 'remembering' where the player died and when you report the murder the murderer loses rep in the 'remembered' location.

 

[Eldrath]

So SV spend 15 years coming up with the current system, while MANY other systems have been proposed.

Somehow you think they will change the current system for something better? I think that´s naive.

Personally I would like them to remove standings and flags and have guards only attack if there is actual crimes happening. It´s a simple and elegant system and standing can be used for a other purposes.