Mounted
- Thread starter Maxstor
- Start date
They should hold off on this until everything else is done - mounts ruined the first game and I hope they learnt their lesson this time.
Excited for the future.
Excited for the future.
I disagree, the playerbase ruined the first game. You don't roll in as infantry with the expectation to be able to stand up against someone with greater mobility if you don't equip yourself to deal with it properly, which most everyone did not.
i disagree, mounts were horribly imbalanced allowing for the most HP horses to also be the fastest, even after all the nerfs. SV lacked the vision and courage to make mount stat choices meaningful.
-barcode
Your issues with mounts as a whole had everything to do with the issues of the breeding system and allowing Bull Horses (the breed with the highest HP) to be imbued with speed and dex stats from the other breeds of horses.
It has NOTHING to do with mounted combat and everything to do with the fact that Bull Horses had insane amounts of HP compared to every other subspecies of horse.
And making speed a direct inverse of HP would be entirely detrimental and totally antithetical to the point of a breeding program.
while yes this issue is mostly to do with the breeding system, mounted archery/combat are both dependant on the horses that are available, and thus directly tied to that system.
theres simply no defending allowing for the most hp horse to also be the fastest with no downsides. Perhaps SV could make such horses have a shotglass stamina pool that drains as fast as molva charges, or simply not have enough strength to even manage carrying an unarmed/unarmored fighter. did they do this? no.
ironically, prior to the breeding system, horses had an interesting balance to them. jungle/desert horses were fast but low hp, steppe horses had a lot of stamina and a bit more hp but not as fast, bull horses were close to but still slower than steppe horses, had the most hp and perhaps had even more stamina than steppe horses. on top of that bull horses had few spawns and you had to go to risar lands to get them. all in all the horses had their individual strengths (except jotuns and mongrels).
perhaps SV can find some way to go back and find balance with horses. One thing is for sure, allowing for the fastest horse to also be the most durable is just a bad idea
-barcode
I once fought against a Mounted on an Arctic Lyk (with 600+ HP?). I even had a dismount weapon. It ended with his mount being at 10% HP, he feeds a potion to it and it's instantly full again. Great!
I would like to see old mount system over the new one in MO2.
The speeds was also much better, all horses was alittle faster than foot with deserts being slightly faster than them but not anywhere near as fast as new system made them and that was before breeding.
Old mounts
New mounts
The speeds was also much better, all horses was alittle faster than foot with deserts being slightly faster than them but not anywhere near as fast as new system made them and that was before breeding.
Old mounts
New mounts
Your complaint seems to stem from a fundamental misunderstanding of certain systems.
1: The Arctic Lyk is the Bull Horse subspecie of Lyks, it had the strongest "natural armor/resistance" and the highest HP pool with I think the exception of Stalker Lyks if anyone can correct me, since my experience had mostly to do with Jungle Lyks.
2: "Dismount Weapons" were based on blunt force,
Edit: Watching BadMan's video, it seems like I was mistaken about the necessity to hit the Rider as opposed to the mount, as it is clearly seen that the cameraman is striking the mount for damage. My bad about that claim, looks like SV may have changed that detail since I played last. With that as the case, I think the issue you might have been experiencing with the Arctic Lyk is that the Arctic Lyk does have very high armor/resistance and therefore may have been resisting your blunt damage to prevent dismount.
3: That last quip about the potion had more to do with issues with the potion system. Personally I preferred when riders had to use bandages and take their time to heal their pets, It forced them out of combat and off their mounts, into a vulnerable position.
My conclusion, and I think this is something we can both agree on, is that these were mostly poor design choices by SV that snowballed because this community is obsessed with min/maxing and found the best ways to create the best/worst the systems SV had in place would have to offer. A bunch of smaller issues and design oversights can compound to create a bigger issue.
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Best part about it they were using TAMED desert horses and sometimes even steppe horses (also those are mauls not sledgehammers, before someone else will notice).
Perfectly balanced though, they should have just kept a "proper battle formation" and that would have perfectly nullified getting 1-2 shot.
You're quoting the time in what, 2014 when they introduced mauls that 1 or 2 shot and they that completely nerfed, along with a blanket nerf against all mounted melee weapons with that ridiculous 2x strength req multiplier increase while mounted nonsense? I mean that completely nullified most of the potential weapons and neutered the playstyle with the exception of one or two absurdly high damage weapon variants that should have been tuned directly and properly rather than nerfing everything across the board.
Example: In my experience, before the nerfs were in place, I rode with a steel or sometimes a tungsteel halberd head on a 2h short handle made of spongewood. This gave me flexibility to fight on foot and while mounted, and was primarly geared towards eliminating mages, and wearers of light armor. The highest damage value I ever achieved while doing that was while riding max speed, (head-on against a foot soldier who had what appeared to be a bone tissue or even a molarium helmet, it was hard to tell) to a value of 125 damage. This was under ideal conditions.
I never chose to ride using these absurd Super Mario Mauls that dealt 200+ or 300+ damage, I knew that they were broken and wrong and waited for them to be nerfed properly, instead the results of SV's heavy handed "tuning" caused my max damage values (which averaged between 65-90 depending on hit location and armor type/ speed etc), to drop down to between 35+ (maxing around 65 or so).
So yes, my examples are annecdotal, and as can be seein what you present, it is mostly people who min-maxed into wheelchair builds, utilizing double headed axes and mauls made of tung, cron, ogh, and tindremic messing.
Can I be blamed for my own reluctance to min-max and prefer the more dynamic playstyles that this game can offer? Sure, I suppose I can because I had no interest in the pointless deathmatching that people committed to in this game. Can the community itself be blamed for its own obsessions in looking to break the game? Sure it can.
But to ignorantly say that "mounted was OP/Broken!" completely ignores the nuance of the problems most people faced. To say "it ruined the game" completely ignores the many people who enjoyed being mounted as a playstyle, who enjoyed the extra layer and challenges, costs, and rewards. It's making a bad faith argument to eliminate an inconvenience for one party that another party enjoyed as a counter to the first party.
For every max dex/speed veela/veela pole-troll in scale armor, there was a Thur Khur or a Human that could never catch them. For every mage that tried to run away, there was a mounted archer or a veela veela, for every veela veela, there was a mounted melee that could drop their HP in a few heavy hits.
This game, is a game of dynamic disparity and inequity. If you did not prepare or adapt in gameplay to meet potential hazards, you died, and some builds hard countered and soft countered other builds.
Point here was to show how severly broken mounted was for years before small nerfs came that did little to fix the actual problem. They stopped the big time broken weapons only to have a new one appear the next day that took as long to fix. Sadly few did make videos as noone except a chosen few wanted to showcase their easy gameplay to keep it broken for free gear everyday.
Yes that was mauls true but sledge was the big bad one hitting crazy higher than these videos.
Btw NOTHING nullified these weapons, mounteds on real warhorses could ride into big groups and often 1 shot steel geared players at the worst times and 3 shot after many nerfs. When a mounted coming in at 4x your whole groups speed hitting for 3 times the dmg you can deal their mount, theres nothing you can do to stop them. The fact that the only defense pro mounteds believing it never was broken could come up with was dismount weapons which you had to hit perfect with on a zooming mount to be able to dismount and most of the time the rider got up, remounted and got away before a group could kill him or the mount is laughable.
You did say I was wrong and it was never broken. Theres lots of proof of how mounted was for years, most of the videos is from before you quit, so feigning ignorance does not work sadly. It was severly broken from 2012-atleast 2017 last I played in a group.
It was not only wheelchair builds either, I could do almost the same on my own mounted who was thur/khur able footfighter first with sledge hitting for 180s, then lancer hitting for 215s and lastly axer hitting for 90s. Last I logged in this year I did high 60s with a 60% axe on one of the few players I did see who was in steel. High 60s while on a 600 HP horse running insane fast is ridiculous.
That is why I want to see the old mounted system in MO2, where mounts are alittle faster than foot like old MO and not super speed with low HP like old MO and hitting for foot dmg like old MO. You still have increased speed, more HP and deal same dmg with all mounted skills maxed. Thats enough of a advantage for a mounted imo. And yes I am a mounted fighter aswell as foot fighter. I just dont want all advantage making mounted combat easy as shit to play as not having to use brain while fighting.
Imo Risk vs Reward in all things. Not only reward like mounted was for a majority of MO1s lifespan with a limited few counters thats highly scenario based or so bad in all other scenarios other than purely to counter mounteds taking you out of all other gameplay besides mounted "babysitter".
I personally want to see a more diverse terrain with stronger detail to properly allow both play styles to gain the advantage by paying more attention to the route they travel. I have no massive issue with mounted so long as a foot player can counter it with careful planning and terrain knowledge. MO 1 was far too flat and not dense enough with foliage and objects imho.
Rawr!! The post of posts!!! The advantage and disadvantages of mounted... oh my oh my!! For those who were around when breeding first came out... well you know how much they did to make it semi useable and not overly broke.. took awhile... a long while... Those who only had used played after breeding, well just dont get how broken or pointless they made them in the "testing times". This time around with them using UE4 they will have a way better control of damage (in all aspects), speed, collision, even could add ownership and treatment to the mounts making them more or less loyal based on how you use them(similar to MO1 just with more depth), even different types of mounts could have "personality " for their intended purposes too. It's really going to be based on how they want to introduce vehicles as a whole over just mounts. Cuase I want a fucking wagon and sail boat for racing!! Anyone down when released?!
Agree the balance through the years was horrible. But what I feel really threw things off was Breeding. As soon as that much time and effort dedicated to something, there has to be more value to the playstyle. ( Much like the Oghmium and high end matts discussions)
There was so much time and effort put into breeding at the end that had to justify the time with OP styles.
I think what thabadman is looking for is something closer to MR mounted.
The debate about mounteds were around back in 2010-2012 when knockdown and MA was OP - and that was fixed pretty quickly.
Back at the beginning people still enjoyed that mounted play style - I'm sure they still will.
This was an example of after they fixed the mauls and mounted incline adjustments. The ground play was sloppy and frantic on my part but it gave a good idea of how things were.
Any form of mounted play style should be high risk - high reward. Even though the game does a very terrible job of it, Mordhau portrays mounted combat painfully average in what I'd like to see. As in, you get caught by one by surprise you get squished; but if you catch them they also get squished (But one - two shots in any kind of skill based game isn't enjoyable so lets not follow that trend.)
The biggest issue in MO1 was the breeding system, and the sheer survivability of the mounted. Even though this shouldn't be the focus of their attention anytime soon I'll say this.
- Horses should have brains like they used to.
- Horses should move slower, the less health they have.
- Stopping instantly shouldn't be a thing.
- Running into things should knock you off.
- You should be restricted to specific weapon types whilst on horseback. It shouldn't even be a debate of weight, but rather type. One handed weapons and lances in my eyes.
- The damage should be able to be negated by parrying entirely. It's quite literally the stupidest thing seeing an MC, parrying and or blocking him, and getting hit for 15 through your block.
Just some stuff off the top of my head. But if you seriously think mounted play wasn't busted to some extent, then you either play a mounted or your so caught up in trying to preserve realism in a dark, low-fantasy game. They were unbalanced, extremely annoying to play against, and very easy to play with low risk - high reward.
The biggest issue in MO1 was the breeding system, and the sheer survivability of the mounted. Even though this shouldn't be the focus of their attention anytime soon I'll say this.
- Horses should have brains like they used to.
- Horses should move slower, the less health they have.
- Stopping instantly shouldn't be a thing.
- Running into things should knock you off.
- You should be restricted to specific weapon types whilst on horseback. It shouldn't even be a debate of weight, but rather type. One handed weapons and lances in my eyes.
- The damage should be able to be negated by parrying entirely. It's quite literally the stupidest thing seeing an MC, parrying and or blocking him, and getting hit for 15 through your block.
Just some stuff off the top of my head. But if you seriously think mounted play wasn't busted to some extent, then you either play a mounted or your so caught up in trying to preserve realism in a dark, low-fantasy game. They were unbalanced, extremely annoying to play against, and very easy to play with low risk - high reward.