Mounted Online 1 vs Mounted Online 2

[Emdash]

A rebuttal would be... everyone says 1v1 combat is ok because the game isn't supposed to be balanced for 1v1s, it's supposed to be balanced for a group fight. In the same way bringing your big ass pet into a group fight will get it bodied, I feel like even a group of MA gets owned by foot fighters because they can all just focus everyone off the horses w/ any type of bow until the rest have to flee. You can't really PUSH w/ MA. It's like old MC gank bus except with MC you could kill someone on foot 1v1 pretty ez, and MC could be a factor in a group fight. Now you need multi MA to really kill a solo foot with efficiency.

Horses are fast, and yea they are the only thing that can wear bags. It makes sense for pve, cuz MA is also superstrong in pve. Even naked. But I mean I've been in duli when all the kings mounted men get out, like 30-40 people legit and they can't really do anything against a small group of foot fighters because they won't dismount to chase. It's major diminishing returns, in a way that even Mc was not. (even tho you still have to dismount on MC, you could bang someone down at least before they got to a hill or w/e, taking pot shots while sitting on you MA is not really that effective esp if they are firing back and focusing your mount.)

And yea everyone should be running mounted + some combat skill and expect to lose their lo PP mount that they can prol tame themselves w/ 50 taming and fight on foot.

This game would be EVEN MORE TRASH without mounted. You'd be carrying 1 stack max at a time. It only follows that mounteds be able to fight. When they introduce 0 PP unmountable pack animals, we can talk haha. Cuz TBH I Don't mind roaming the world on foot, but not being able to carry anything sux.

Mounted and Foot are two different worlds. It'd be nice to keep them as separated as possible. Obv, getting your mount mounted zerged sucks but, again, that kinda shit keeps the economy running.

Edit @ Tek: it's not that you shouldn't be playing MA. It's that you should have MA haha. There's a difference. I don't consider myself an MA, but I def am gonna spec it. And that's as a lean veela. I'd take balance for foot (veela shite,) I might lower endurance if necessary. You can find 300 pts somewhere. or 275 as elf. Prol end up with 7wt armor if anything cuz I don't have buds to back me up. And I still think low MA arrows fire differently, but you can spec MA for farming and it doesn't need to be max. MC def needs a buff, beyond just running into people w/ lances, if for no reason other than to counter MA.

 

[Teknique]

A rebuttal would be... everyone says 1v1 combat is ok because the game isn't supposed to be balanced for 1v1s, it's supposed to be balanced for a group fight. In the same way bringing your big ass pet into a group fight will get it bodied, I feel like even a group of MA gets owned by foot fighters because they can all just focus everyone off the horses w/ any type of bow until the rest have to flee. You can't really PUSH w/ MA. It's like old MC gank bus except with MC you could kill someone on foot 1v1 pretty ez, and MC could be a factor in a group fight. Now you need multi MA to really kill a solo foot with efficiency.

Horses are fast, and yea they are the only thing that can wear bags. It makes sense for pve, cuz MA is also superstrong in pve. Even naked. But I mean I've been in duli when all the kings mounted men get out, like 30-40 people legit and they can't really do anything against a small group of foot fighters because they won't dismount to chase. It's major diminishing returns, in a way that even Mc was not. (even tho you still have to dismount on MC, you could bang someone down at least before they got to a hill or w/e, taking pot shots while sitting on you MA is not really that effective esp if they are firing back and focusing your mount.)

And yea everyone should be running mounted + some combat skill and expect to lose their lo PP mount that they can prol tame themselves w/ 50 taming and fight on foot.

This game would be EVEN MORE TRASH without mounted. You'd be carrying 1 stack max at a time. It only follows that mounteds be able to fight. When they introduce 0 PP unmountable pack animals, we can talk haha. Cuz TBH I Don't mind roaming the world on foot, but not being able to carry anything sux.

Mounted and Foot are two different worlds. It'd be nice to keep them as separated as possible. Obv, getting your mount mounted zerged sucks but, again, that kinda shit keeps the economy running.

Edit @ Tek: it's not that you shouldn't be playing MA. It's that you should have MA haha. There's a difference. I don't consider myself an MA, but I def am gonna spec it. And that's as a lean veela. I'd take balance for foot (veela shite,) I might lower endurance if necessary. You can find 300 pts somewhere. or 275 as elf. Prol end up with 7wt armor if anything cuz I don't have buds to back me up. And I still think low MA arrows fire differently, but you can spec MA for farming and it doesn't need to be max. MC def needs a buff, beyond just running into people w/ lances, if for no reason other than to counter MA.

I'd say false equivalency.

Balance around 1v1s or duels is on such a smaller scale than MA balance when it is effecting all aspects of the game to travel, to class versatility to, whether you want to play anything else solo or not.

I take your point that MC's were even better at fighting foot

 

[Archiel]

Which mounted era of MO1? Messing Mauls, spear lances, go-cart horse change, oversize head hitbox, diceroll dismounts, lykiator supreme, lykiator useless, no armor weight penalty (30weight armor while mounted), double EQs, spell casting while turning, EQ+Deathhand or full Ogh MC with heals wheelchair.

 

[Tzone]

Mounted is just a mess. I can do 70 damage to a naked horse with a 100# long bow or 30 to a armored horse with out any archer skill. Outburst does like 40 damage on horses and is super OP against mounted.

But FF can not kill mounted because they will just run away when low. FF can only deter mounted. We should favor FF over mounted because that were the higher skill ceiling is. Its far more fun to play FF then Mounted.

I would ask for doubling horse health and then giving health thresholds attached to how fast they can go. Slow them down if they get down to 3/4th of its health no more 4 speed, if it 60% then you get 2 speeded. 40% and then its one speed.
I would also increase piercing on horse armor by a small amount as well to further balance them out against bows.

Then I would increase arrow speed for bows in general by like 10-15%.

Would be nice for FFs to not have your horse just die so easily if you want to get off to fight.

 

[Kaemik]

If the issue people have is getting around the map, the solution is to push for multi-passenger mounts.

If a horse can carry an extra rider then only 50% of your force need be mounted.

If they add a mount that can say, carry 1 rider and 3 passengers such as the promised campadons, then 25% of your force can carry 75% footfighters.

Personally, I'd like to see something like a giant lizard/crocodile mount. 5 seats faced either way down each side of it's back. 1 rider, 10 passengers. With a troop transport mount such as that 9% of your force can carry the 91%. Not only that, but 91% of your force can kind of just chill and enjoy the ride while the 9% most interested in driving the mounts can be doing so.

All this could make it in much faster than carts/wagons/boats because it works more off the already existing mechanics. We have mounts already afterall.

 

[Exiledkhallisi]

Mounted is just a mess. I can do 70 damage to a naked horse with a 100# long bow or 30 to a armored horse with out any archer skill. Outburst does like 40 damage on horses and is super OP against mounted.

But FF can not kill mounted because they will just run away when low. FF can only deter mounted. We should favor FF over mounted because that were the higher skill ceiling is. Its far more fun to play FF then Mounted.

I would ask for doubling horse health and then giving health thresholds attached to how fast they can go. Slow them down if they get down to 3/4th of its health no more 4 speed, if it 60% then you get 2 speeded. 40% and then its one speed.
I would also increase piercing on horse armor by a small amount as well to further balance them out against bows.

Then I would increase arrow speed for bows in general by like 10-15%.

Would be nice for FFs to not have your horse just die so easily if you want to get off to fight.

I just posted about this see:The grandest Foal

Horses are too easy to kill..even if i get killed 1v1...i will kill their horse in 4 or leas shots armored or not (max str ogh archer)

It seems broken

 

[Emdash]

I'd say false equivalency.

Balance around 1v1s or duels is on such a smaller scale than MA balance when it is effecting all aspects of the game to travel, to class versatility to, whether you want to play anything else solo or not.

I take your point that MC's were even better at fighting foot

It's false, but it's false because you are factoring so much other than pvp into it, mounts are essential to so many things in MO. Just in terms of MA combat viability tho, I don't know. I feel it's the most viable form of mounted combat, but it's more MOUNTS than archery on them.

So it's more like... in this game, you need a horse because horses give the ability to carry loot + map is huge + you need MA because it's the only reliable mounted dps imo for pve/pvp. MM is something, but it's hard to imagine it being better at farming than a MA with lores.

But MC should def make a return. Like I said it needs some skill under it to make it so that you can achieve a higher speed than the other ranged mounteds w/ armor on. That's the only way I can think about it.

All the mechanics are there, but it's just imbalanced cuz something like MC has to get close. I don't think MA itself is inherently imbalanced as it is, it's just that being on a mount is always gonna be better than being on foot, and ranged is always gonna be better than melee for solo. Add the two together, if you can't catch someone AND they outzone you, it's GG.

I think getting head shot horse or character, you should get dismounted, and you should prol get dismounted if you get shot twice in a certain time frame (like a few seconds.)

I still think tho if you bring a bunch of MAs vs a small foot group the foot group would probably win unless the MAs were crazy good shots and could take down the mages.

Also:

We should favor FF over mounted because that were the higher skill ceiling is. Its far more fun to play FF then Mounted.

That's a little subjective. Again, the skill ceiling is only that you can kite away. MA v MA on two 125 desis has as high of a skill cap as anything. The only thing that would make it more cutthroat would be a dismount mechanic like I mentioned.

There's plenty of skill to mounted v foot and mounted v mounted, IMO. I'm not gonna say it's equal, but I also think it's a lot less cheezy than FF right now w/ parry whore. MC is just trash, and lance play seems dumbed down just running into things.

But yea full speed mounted + having to aim is pretty good shit. I also think it's wack that mounted can bully foot, but I dunno how to fix it. Lowering horse HP def made mounted even more crazy. But it's mainly being able to choose your engagement, and one could argue that's not 'skill cap' as much as it's awareness. Someone w/ crazy hand eye coordination would be absolutely murder w/ a MA. I fail to see how it could have any skill cap at all haha.

 

[Kuthara]

Mounted is more necessary in MO2 than MO1 due to the size of the map.

At various points in MO1 a MC could 1 shot a foot player, run up the side of mountains, have 1000hp horses, sprint forever. It was worse... much worse.

 

[TheHeretic]

Mounted is more necessary in MO2 than MO1 due to the size of the map.

At various points in MO1 a MC could 1 shot a foot player, run up the side of mountains, have 1000hp horses, sprint forever. It was worse... much worse.

If you can parry, you run like a god from MC in MO1. If you got axe or bows - same. Dont forgoth about EQ. Also remember about Fist weapons with 200HP dmg to horse and 100 to you.
There is not a speach about 'i want MC back cuz im OP MC' or something. I just want to say we need a various of play, not only 1 meta build.

 

[TheHeretic]

And yes, mounted in MO2 worse. Horse armor worked bad, you cant parry arrows and PSY not saved from magic anymore

 

[Kaemik]

I'll repeat again, the solution to the "map is too big" problem is there needs to be a way for a pure foot build to get across the map roughly as fast as a unit of cav archers. Carts/wagons/boats are the obvious solution here but how long are we going to be waiting on that? Unless significant progress has been made on this front already, I doubt it will be fast enough for people to be satisfied with it as a solution to the current issue.

Multiple passenger mounts is the fastest way to deal with said problem because it's just modifying existing creatures and adding maybe a couple new ones. Rather than repeating "The map is too big and we needed horses to cross it!" 1000x on the forums... how about we just put pressure on SV to implement the most obvious solution. So we can stop getting all these random jungle creatures and get things that are REALLY going to impact our enjoyment of the game ASAP.

As to the issue that it's too easy to make a build where you start off dealing damage as an MA then transition into a fully effective foot fighter when your mount goes down. Yup. Valid issue. And really the root of it is the entire skill tree system in this game is completely out of whack. Particularly with archery, 100 points in archery buys you damn near the full value of an archer with 400 points + 100 MA invested. MAs in general don't need a nerf. MAs with just archery and mounted archery need a nerf. And MAs with archery, ma, and 300 points of archery support skills actually need a buff IMO.

I have some ideas on how to fix that but the issue is the entire skill system has no synergy and seems to be just people throwing things into the game. Once I start fiddling with one role I realize there is a need for a skill system overhaul the effects literally every role in the game. But this time designed from the ground up to consider all the roles and how they all fit together. I may write this up if I get A LOT of spare time on my hands, because it covers everything from MAs being too cheap, to the fact most 1h weapons are trash and have no real role in the game.