Mortal Online 2: The Injustice of a player base

Jatix

Well-known member
Sep 30, 2020
882
767
93
We've literally just said we want to at least be able to hold our own and do some solo stuff in PvE like a melee/ranged could. Yet here you are like NOPE THAT'D BE OP!
Correct, it would be. Because how would SV change mages to be able to do that?

PVE they can increase mage damage significantly. So you can kill mobs before running out of mana. Now mages prob just do more damage than everyone else. But mage PVE doesnt worry me, SV can do whatever they want if it only effects mage PVE.

1V1's. If they make mages extra fast, they will be extremely op. They can just run away and shoot spells that ignore armor. And then whe nthe enemy gives up and runs they can just chase easily. Can block healing. And can heal themselves. Being catchable is the only reason they arent busted. And they are still faster than anyone who isnt an Alv, if you are a dex mage. The same reason mounted v foot is op. Being able to always get away or chase is OP.

Being able to cast in combat mode while blocking so they can parry fighters and not run away, would also be totally busted. Nobodyu suggested this, I'm just saying it as an alternative to being extra fast.

So how would SV make mages better at 1V1 without making them broken? Thats why I say they would need a complete magic redesign. The way magic works with being ranged hitscan unlockable virtually undodgable (if the mage is really good) attacks doesnt leave a lot of room to buff mages.
 

Eventide

Member
Oct 15, 2022
40
11
8
Correct, it would be. Because how would SV change mages to be able to do that?

PVE they can increase mage damage significantly. So you can kill mobs before running out of mana. Now mages prob just do more damage than everyone else. But mage PVE doesnt worry me, SV can do whatever they want if it only effects mage PVE.

1V1's. If they make mages extra fast, they will be extremely op. They can just run away and shoot spells that ignore armor. And then whe nthe enemy gives up and runs they can just chase easily. Can block healing. And can heal themselves. Being catchable is the only reason they arent busted. And they are still faster than anyone who isnt an Alv, if you are a dex mage. The same reason mounted v foot is op. Being able to always get away or chase is OP.

Being able to cast in combat mode while blocking so they can parry fighters and not run away, would also be totally busted. Nobodyu suggested this, I'm just saying it as an alternative to being extra fast.

So how would SV make mages better at 1V1 without making them broken? Thats why I say they would need a complete magic redesign. The way magic works with being ranged hitscan unlockable virtually undodgable (if the mage is really good) attacks doesnt leave a lot of room to buff mages.
Nobody at any point suggested mages be faster yet here you are ranting about only that. We did mention having int-scaling weaponry like staff magic. You also fail to even understand the fact we can't move and cast. Every ecumenical spell requires you to be perfectly still for the entire cast time. Even mounted you can't touch a movement key without it instantly fumbling.

With magic being hitscan, even mages have said that needs changed back into projectiles and to be more exciting like MO1. That doesn't warrant a "complete magic redesign" that's literally just adding projectiles rather than hitscan which they very likely want to do at some point.

As for it being unable to be blocked or dodged, again projectiles fix the dodging and blocking you do have things like magic reflect and we've already stated adding in magic resist equipment and projectiles could be blocked to some degree.

You just refuse to take in any information that's against you and use extremes to keep trying to prove a point that doesn't need proved. You're then using things nobody even suggested just to keep pushing your own narrative of 1v1 would suddenly be massively overpowered because you can't be bothered to think for once in your life.
 

Jatix

Well-known member
Sep 30, 2020
882
767
93
Nobody at any point suggested mages be faster yet here you are ranting about only that.
A mage should be able to be nimble unless they're fat or old. They should be able to outrun someone, but they are more than likely going to have much less stamina and use up more.
Also MO1 magic only Elementalism was actual projectiles. They claimed ecu was but it definitely was not. It could only hit if it was aimed at the player when you shot and it homed in. You could shoot a fireball at nothing but if they walked to where you shot it wouldnt hit. You could never 'lead' your shots with ecu. I will agree tho that a projectile based system, with some spells having an AOE would be a much better system. Sadly I dont think we will be getting that.
 

Eventide

Member
Oct 15, 2022
40
11
8
Nice job misquoting things out of context. That was in reply to you already saying they should be faster. All I said is they should be nimble and able to move around. Nobody said they should be like the speed of light as you keep trying to make it seem. They should be able to outrun someone as in a fighter wearing heavy armor because the mage isn't bogged down by armor. And while they can outrun they can't keep it up because the fighter has more stamina and regen. There's also nothing keeping that fighter from switching to a bow and shooting the mage down.

Once again, your input here has been completely useless and only trying to derail the subject to push your own narrative. You just don't feel confident in your own skills to fight off a mage if they had proper ways to defend themselves in a 1v1.
 

2Op4Scrubs

Active member
Sep 11, 2021
258
144
43
I haven't read reply's yet.
But not with this Halloween even they made GY zombies drop Flux
Now spiritism is completely useless. G fkin G
 

2Op4Scrubs

Active member
Sep 11, 2021
258
144
43
They would need to completely overhaul the entire magic system to make mages good at 1v1 and pve without being completely broken. And spoiler, SV will never overhaul magic, they had their chance when they made a new game.

Bruh they all ready completely over hauled Spiritism and made it just a spirit farm, and only 2 useful spells at 100

1V1's. If they make mages extra fast, they will be extremely op. They can just run away and shoot spells that ignore armor. And then whe nthe enemy gives up and runs they can just chase easily. Can block healing. And can heal themselves. Being catchable is the only reason they arent busted. And they are still faster than anyone who isnt an Alv, if you are a dex mage. The same reason mounted v foot is op. Being able to always get away or chase is OP.

Every FF can just pull any bow and do good damage with out any archery skill, enough to keep the mage away, If they are close and only have ECU you can easily run up to them as any race. The problem is not the speed. The problem is every FF has the ability to completely dominate in a 1v1, weather it be with melee or ranged. If you are a dex fighter you dont even need to pull a bow. Even if the dex mage has higher dex, The FF gets more stam just off of con and stg. So they will catch any mage in the long run. Which is why I think armor should effect move speed, Just like it does with horses.
Just think about it. Horses are fucking strong as shit and have way more endurance and stam than any human. But in this game they get weighed down by armor, A fuck ton. Its noticeable af. But the person in armor gets no effect on max speed because of armor weight? How is that logical? Its not.

As for it being unable to be blocked or dodged, again projectiles fix the dodging and blocking you do have things like magic reflect and we've already stated adding in magic resist equipment and projectiles could be blocked to some degree.

Dont forget about the attribute Psyche that literally reduces all incoming magic damage by % and gives you a higher % to resist to only take 9 damage on an outburst and 22 on a fulm.
 

Eventide

Member
Oct 15, 2022
40
11
8
Dont forget about the attribute Psyche that literally reduces all incoming magic damage by % and gives you a higher % to resist to only take 9 damage on an outburst and 22 on a fulm.

The issue here is most people don't take psyche.. even most mages don't have much psyche.. because you *need* to max intelligence then constitution, and then whatever is left goes to like 30 strength, try to max dex, and then the rest in psyche. I'd say remove the magic resist from psyche and roll it into equipment instead. Have psyche affect max mana more significantly and add in something else it affects.
 

Jatix

Well-known member
Sep 30, 2020
882
767
93
The other day my friend fulm'd a thursar fighter for like a 13 resist. He was pissed lol. Cuz we all know the Thur had 10 psy. Psy needs to be more consistent. It does always lower the damage, but resists are wonky.

Even if the dex mage has higher dex, The FF gets more stam just off of con and stg. So they will catch any mage in the long run. Which is why I think armor should effect move speed, Just like it does with horses.
Just think about it. Horses are fucking strong as shit and have way more endurance and stam than any human. But in this game they get weighed down by armor, A fuck ton. Its noticeable af. But the person in armor gets no effect on max speed because of armor weight? How is that logical? Its not.
Keep in mind tho that fighters use stam to swing, and that mages dont use stam to cast. So if the dex fighter was fighting anyone else, or stams out before killing the mage, they can never kill the mage if the mage just runs. Because both regen stam at the same rate and move the same speed (in the scenario of a dex fighter). If the mage runs and the fighter runs and they both stam, the fighter cant attack because stam. If the fighter runs from the mage and they both stam, the mage wins because the mage can keep shooting while chasing and not fall behind by casting while stamming up and never falling farther behind because they are both stopping to stam up as they run.

1v1 Dex fighter obv wins most of the time. But I'm just saying why mages have less stam to begin with. They use less stam.

I'm been bitching about how op horses are since MO1. But we cant make foot like mounted. Armor slowing foot speed just ruins foot combat. It makes it impossible to chase if you actually have gear, which is bad game design. Heavy armor already gives a stam penalty which hurts in long chases. Maybe holding W and getting away every time sounds great as a mage but for everyone else trying to have a fight it would ruin every fight. As an MMO that the primary progression is gear, they cant make the better gear worse. nobody would wear anything above Ironbone if it made you slow. Because metal armor is liek 10kg heavier.

And on your comment on bows, they need to nerf low primary points archery so people cant always just have a bow and do decent damage. But they have at least been working on that by adding more bow prims.

TLDR I'm not saying mage is op and wins 1v1's. I'm just saying theres reasons why mage has its weaknesses.
 

ElPerro

Well-known member
Jun 9, 2020
698
788
93
Also MO1 magic only Elementalism was actual projectiles. They claimed ecu was but it definitely was not. It could only hit if it was aimed at the player when you shot and it homed in. You could shoot a fireball at nothing but if they walked to where you shot it wouldnt hit. You could never 'lead' your shots with ecu. I will agree tho that a projectile based system, with some spells having an AOE would be a much better system. Sadly I dont think we will be getting that.
Yeah I doubt we will ever get projectiles, it seems Henrik doesnt really like them and prefers his hitscan trash.
 

Eventide

Member
Oct 15, 2022
40
11
8
Keep in mind tho that fighters use stam to swing, and that mages dont use stam to cast. So if the dex fighter was fighting anyone else, or stams out before killing the mage, they can never kill the mage if the mage just runs. Because both regen stam at the same rate and move the same speed (in the scenario of a dex fighter). If the mage runs and the fighter runs and they both stam, the fighter cant attack because stam. If the fighter runs from the mage and they both stam, the mage wins because the mage can keep shooting while chasing and not fall behind by casting while stamming up and never falling farther behind because they are both stopping to stam up as they run.

1v1 Dex fighter obv wins most of the time. But I'm just saying why mages have less stam to begin with. They use less stam.

I'm been bitching about how op horses are since MO1. But we cant make foot like mounted. Armor slowing foot speed just ruins foot combat. It makes it impossible to chase if you actually have gear, which is bad game design. Heavy armor already gives a stam penalty which hurts in long chases. Maybe holding W and getting away every time sounds great as a mage but for everyone else trying to have a fight it would ruin every fight. As an MMO that the primary progression is gear, they cant make the better gear worse. nobody would wear anything above Ironbone if it made you slow. Because metal armor is liek 10kg heavier.

And on your comment on bows, they need to nerf low primary points archery so people cant always just have a bow and do decent damage. But they have at least been working on that by adding more bow prims.

TLDR I'm not saying mage is op and wins 1v1's. I'm just saying theres reasons why mage has its weaknesses.

They do not regen stamina at the same rate and also mana isn't regened nearly as quick. The fighter has much more stamina than the mage and also uses much less of it when compared to mana. A mage can get like 4 spells off before being out of mana typically. A fighter can swing much more than that before being out of stamina. As for shooting while chasing.. have you used magic? You can't move while casting ecumenical spells. So the mage would have to stop after every attack and basically reload. Unless on a horse where that's a whole other issue. The mage would have to stop to reload their spell, while the fighter can just keep running. You're not understanding your own scenario.

Nobody has complained saying mages need more stamina. We've complained saying mages need more self defense. We've said they have less stamina so they can't run nearly as much as a fighter can.. I swear you're here just to argue against something but you have no idea what you're talking about most of the time.

Mounted combat is ridiculously overpowered that much is true. It should be a different style of combat but not nearly as powerful as it is. Archery has been changed for the better now magic just needs a similar change, though not to aiming because it's already a hitscan. Magic should take longer to cast while mounted and have an inherent chance to fumble based on speed. Mounted magery should, instead of increasing damage, be there to reduce that fumble chance (but not to 0%) and lower the cast time (but still be like 25% longer than normal).

As for your bit about it being impossible to chase if you have gear, if you're a full armor character you shouldn't be chasing people down. Being able to be in massive armor and still move at normal speed, that is "bad game design." That'd make it so you actually have to think about what armor you want to take with you. If you're not expecting large scale battles then you wouldn't really want the heavy armor slowing you down. Making people have to actually make decisions isn't "bad game design." Nobody even said the better gear would be worse. You'd have much higher defenses with that heavy armor but be slowed down. That's your cost for being so defensive. You look at only your side of things and not everyone's. You see everything from only the fighter's point of view and feel the fighter should be able to do everything and more.

Each playstyle should have ups and downs. Currently melee gets everything.. it gets melee, ranged, full speed, heavy armor, etc.. they literally have no downside aside from not being able to do magic as well but even then they can cast some basic things like corrupt, purify, etc.. yet you're here acting like they're the worst playstyle and say how mages need to have weaknesses.. Magic meanwhile has mostly downsides and very few upsides. We can't even solo content whatsoever. We have barely any use to the general public since there's nothing we can really like sell our services on. Magic needs a lot more to it and needs balance changes whether you want to see it or not. Really everything needs some balance changes, but magic most of all.
 

2Op4Scrubs

Active member
Sep 11, 2021
258
144
43
Keep in mind tho that fighters use stam to swing, and that mages dont use stam to cast. So if the dex fighter was fighting anyone else, or stams out before killing the mage, they can never kill the mage if the mage just runs. Because both regen stam at the same rate and move the same speed (in the scenario of a dex fighter). If the mage runs and the fighter runs and they both stam, the fighter cant attack because stam. If the fighter runs from the mage and they both stam, the mage wins because the mage can keep shooting while chasing and not fall behind by casting while stamming up and never falling farther behind because they are both stopping to stam up as they run.
But the stam on swinging is a joke compared to Mana use on a spell. There are I believe 2 skills that reduce swing stamina. 1 is a secondary. I have an Ogh FF and Im slow af, but I never run out of stam when chasing anyone while also charging a swing. On my mage I cant even block 2 swings with a shield without using half my stamana.