MO2 flagging and rep system take the fun out of MO

[Teknique]

Just because you think it's fun to kill noobs in towns doesn't mean everyone else thinks it's fun. You can lie to yourself as much as you want but you know getting killed in town isn't actually fun. MO1 failed so repeating the same mistakes makes no sense. If you want to play a battle royale just play Fortnite. Or if you want to kill anyone you want live in a lawless town. But you don't want to live in a lawless town because you're a hypocrite and like the protection of towns, and don't like getting spawn killed over and over. Even though it's supposed to be fun

The issue (for me) is the extent to which the source material has been bastardized.

a more appropriate analogy than the street fighter analogy would be

imagine in starcraft 2 they removed the ability to play games on “fastest” like everyone did. The devs reasoning being creating a more accessible game for everyone.

then some bloke who never evenplayed the original arrives and says I don’t think the average rts player is really looking for a hyper fast experience. That person would seem very out of touch and clueless.

 

[Eldrath]

Its a hard thing to balance. MO1 there was zero reason to not murder everything you came across. MO2 seems like annoying penalties for doing that. They just have to find the happy medium.

We want there to be plenty of sheep AND wolves. There needs to be incentives for both playstyles. Just keep giving feedback and hope it can be changed to be good. Just try not to be super biased, think about the health of the game and not just how you personally want to play.

I´ve seen this sentiment around and think in it´s shortness paints the wrong picture. You had no reason to avoid MC on your dedicated fighting character that was already at 20+ MCs or similar. You still had reasons not to murder everyone, since it had repercussions dealt by players. I can´t count the number of times a "random" kill in the wild sparked a war that ended with assets going down.

There were real consequences to your actions outside of the coded ones. Depending on your situation and what time frame we are talking about statloss could be a very real and annoying consequence of PvP.

The wolf and sheep argument is fairly short sighted since most sheep turn into wolves rather quickly given the opportunity. Choosing to play a game like Mortal and being a pacifist is a rather extreme position to take IMO. Those players generally appreciate the danger coming from the sandbox, since they have literally hundreds of other games they could play that don´t have it.

You incentivise different playstyles by making them fun and interactive. Passive or peaceful players need complex systems to interact with and thus play an important role in the sandbox. The problem arises when you remove all of that in order to streamline your game to become "AAA" and "more accessible". Without interesting systems peaceful players run out of stuff to do and research quickly.

 

[ArcaneConsular]

I´ve seen this sentiment around and think in it´s shortness paints the wrong picture. You had no reason to avoid MC on your dedicated fighting character that was already at 20+ MCs or similar. You still had reasons not to murder everyone, since it had repercussions dealt by players. I can´t count the number of times a "random" kill in the wild sparked a war that ended with assets going down.

There were real consequences to your actions outside of the coded ones. Depending on your situation and what time frame we are talking about statloss could be a very real and annoying consequence of PvP.

The wolf and sheep argument is fairly short sighted since most sheep turn into wolves rather quickly given the opportunity. Choosing to play a game like Mortal and being a pacifist is a rather extreme position to take IMO. Those players generally appreciate the danger coming from the sandbox, since they have literally hundreds of other games they could play that don´t have it.

You incentivise different playstyles by making them fun and interactive. Passive or peaceful players need complex systems to interact with and thus play an important role in the sandbox. The problem arises when you remove all of that in order to streamline your game to become "AAA" and "more accessible". Without interesting systems peaceful players run out of stuff to do and research quickly.

I think crafting is the most complete and engaging part of the game right now so I can see many people playing just for that. Likewise I could also see a lot of them quitting if they got killed in town Everytime they went to craft something at a bench so some troll could lul and get a few gold worth of materials. Talk about biting the hand that feeds you though, literally driving away crafters

 

[MolagAmur]

I´ve seen this sentiment around and think in it´s shortness paints the wrong picture. You had no reason to avoid MC on your dedicated fighting character that was already at 20+ MCs or similar. You still had reasons not to murder everyone, since it had repercussions dealt by players. I can´t count the number of times a "random" kill in the wild sparked a war that ended with assets going down.

There were real consequences to your actions outside of the coded ones. Depending on your situation and what time frame we are talking about statloss could be a very real and annoying consequence of PvP.

The wolf and sheep argument is fairly short sighted since most sheep turn into wolves rather quickly given the opportunity. Choosing to play a game like Mortal and being a pacifist is a rather extreme position to take IMO. Those players generally appreciate the danger coming from the sandbox, since they have literally hundreds of other games they could play that don´t have it.

You incentivise different playstyles by making them fun and interactive. Passive or peaceful players need complex systems to interact with and thus play an important role in the sandbox. The problem arises when you remove all of that in order to streamline your game to become "AAA" and "more accessible". Without interesting systems peaceful players run out of stuff to do and research quickly.

Okay. I think we agree. I just said it in a shorter and lazy way.

@Emdash I agree. I dont think there should be any rep loss when you die out in the wild within a certain distance from towns. Major flaw imo. If I kill someone in mino dungeon they shouldn't be able to go back to town to report and make me lose rep.

I can already see some rats griefing with the current way it works. (Taking the time to always rez in the hometown of whoever killed you).

 

[Najwalaylah]

Killing noobs in the library might be fun for some, but it just harms the game. You talk about being a hardcore pvp player but all you want to do is kill unprepared players in towns.

Maybe the lesson to learn too late is "begin like you mean to go on."
By SV's choice in their games prior to this, it was possible to have this kind of fun; it was possible to be easily killed in front of guards; it was possible for the ever-swelling number of very fast, very sturdy, non-artificially intelligent player characters to

fight off or evade 10 guards

and ride out of or into the main gate of town to find refulge or gardens full of low-hanging 'strange fruit' to pluck.
For people who enjoy that kind of thing, that's the kind of thing those people enjoyed, and MO1 was an attractive game for them-- attracted a lot of them, and they make up a notable segment of the veteran population. Feeling unwelcome. Hunted. Haunted, even, by a sense of not being wanted.

That's the feedback.

And this is far before the criminality / connections / thievery system is fully released and finished.

My question is, though, does anyone in his right mind believe that Star Vault will reverse their course on this?

 

[Tzone]

I think crafting is the most complete and engaging part of the game right now so I can see many people playing just for that. Likewise I could also see a lot of them quitting if they got killed in town Everytime they went to craft something at a bench so some troll could lul and get a few gold worth of materials. Talk about biting the hand that feeds you though, literally driving away crafters

Well craftings is actually shallow honestly. So many options but in reality there is only one meta craftable in each section. After people play a bit they tend to understand the depth in many parts of the game is very shallow.

 

[Backyard Employee]

Well craftings is actually shallow honestly. So many options but in reality there is only one meta craftable in each section. After people play a bit they tend to understand the depth in many parts of the game is very shallow.

I was about to say if you play this game for the crafting then you're settling for some bottom of the barrel kinds of experiences.

 

[MolagAmur]

Well craftings is actually shallow honestly. So many options but in reality there is only one meta craftable in each section. After people play a bit they tend to understand the depth in many parts of the game is very shallow.

Literally almost every pvp game though.

 

[Tzone]

Literally almost every pvp game though.

Yeah you tend to have good PvP or good crafting. I think there are a coupld decent PvP games with fun crafting out there but I cant list. I dont think they are First person PvP slasher with good crafting at all.

The really need to focus on the PvP aspects because that is what will retain players and drive conflict which is the main content of OW PvP MMOs.

 

[Jatix]

MO1 crafting was still better than every other MMO I can think of. Its not exactly "fun" but its at least more complex, which makes it fun to get into, and lots of people dont fully understand it, making it feel more rewarding. Sadly MO2 crafting is dumbed down MO1 and not improved upon MO1 crafting. So I'd never play this game just to cart. But. I can see someone wanting to be a trader/craftsman. It used to be fun sitting at the tind bank talking to plebs and crafting them gear. VS other games, like runescape, where crafting is just useless.

Sadly when tindrem is a dead boredom fest this wont be as fun because instead or people needing new gear 24/7, they wont because theres no action in town.

 

[MolagAmur]

MO1 crafting was still better than every other MMO I can think of. Its not exactly "fun" but its at least more complex, which makes it fun to get into, and lots of people dont fully understand it, making it feel more rewarding. Sadly MO2 crafting is dumbed down MO1 and not improved upon MO1 crafting. So I'd never play this game just to cart. But. I can see someone wanting to be a trader/craftsman. It used to be fun sitting at the tind bank talking to plebs and crafting them gear. VS other games, like runescape, where crafting is just useless.

Sadly when tindrem is a dead boredom fest this wont be as fun because instead or people needing new gear 24/7, they wont because theres no action in town.

I agree, but i understand why they did it. Having so many different options in MO1 made it extremely hard to balance it. Thats why you had some extremely cheese weapons. Hopefully now they can have a bit better handle on things.

 

[Jatix]

I agree, but i understand why they did it. Having so many different options in MO1 made it extremely hard to balance it. Thats why you had some extremely cheese weapons. Hopefully now they can have a bit better handle on things.

All the issues with weapon crafting, they could have fixed by implementing good systems. And once they nerfed handle hitsd in MO1 I feel like long handle poles and stuff werent even op anymore. You could make some random dumb weapons, like a gb on a 1h stick. But that wasnt OP. The issue was always jsut poor balance in general, and them not wanting to add proper dynamic systems, like making long handles actually do math to use more stam or swing slower. If they did that, they could have MO1's crafting. Because if a long handle uses way more stam and is slower, its up to the player if they want that trrae off. Its not the games job to say no. People say this is supposed to be some hardcore sandbox but it just has dumbed down systems and no sand.

 

[Tzone]

Lictors teleporting 50 yards out of town interfering with PvP is getting real old

 

[Backyard Employee]

I've ultimately accepted that Mortal Online 2 isn't a new chapter in development for Star Vault but rather a continuation of bad decisions stemming from Mortal Online 1.

Ultimately we're all just talking amongst ourselves in a realm of "what if" and not really gaining any kind of ground in terms of understanding why or how some of these things end up in the game the way they do.

The only way to truly interact with Star Vault is be a scrolling name in a Discord that praises everything they do, even though it's unwarranted, or tune into a stream where Henrik Nystrom the CEO of Star Vault essentially attempts to garner positive PR with others.

I feel as though the forums is useless. But at least some of us can say we tried to make an effort in putting our criticisms out.

In my honest opinion, the game needs to have player-driven polls like that of Old School Runescape. Not necessarily players deciding what happens - but Star Vault presents ideas, changes, features, etc. and we the player base can decide on what we get next, or how a majority wishes for something to work.

All we ever get is "well we have all the data on our side so just trust us." but then look at Mortal Online 1. Look at Mortal Royale. Look at Kitten'D.

Ultimately, look at Mortal Online 2.

If anyone ever interprets my opinions as wanting the game to fail, or just having an unhopeful and cynical outlook then you fail to understand some players are passionate about this type of game and MO2 is basically the last bastion of such a genre. As one guy said we have no where else to go, but eventually we -will- just go somewhere else and give up on this style of game.

 

[Tzone]

@Backyard Employee Yeah feel that. So far people have been pretending to be RPers to get responses from SV. If people pretend to be RPers and tie suggestion as being RP they get further.

I just believe PvP is on the back burner and they want less PvP. They might think it gets more people but a lot of the higher end players are on the breaking point. Not much retention for PvPer and its pretty broken in places. Lot of the PvPers are only looking forward to the first month before the cheese stuff like mounts and pets start being a thing.

 

[Jatix]

look at all the salty vets pining for a MO1 reskin

For some weird reason, I was expecting MO2 to be improved MO1. Not taking the fun out of the game and making the map bigger so that the limited fun left is harder to get.

I feel as though the forums is useless. But at least some of us can say we tried to make an effort in putting our criticisms out.
...
If anyone ever interprets my opinions as wanting the game to fail, or just having an unhopeful and cynical outlook then you fail to understand some players are passionate about this type of game and MO2 is basically the last bastion of such a genre. As one guy said we have no where else to go, but eventually we -will- just go somewhere else and give up on this style of game.

I made this thread to be my last hurrah. I couldn't just give up and quit, I at least had to make 1 last thread on exactly why I don't want to play in the slim hope that it gets enough traction to somehow sway the devs. But sadly that wont happen, idk if they even read this.

@Backyard Employee Yeah feel that. So far people have been pretending to be RPers to get responses from SV. If people pretend to be RPers and tie suggestion as being RP they get further.

I just believe PvP is on the back burner and they want less PvP. They might think it gets more people but a lot of the higher end players are on the breaking point. Not much retention for PvPer and its pretty broken in places. Lot of the PvPers are only looking forward to the first month before the cheese stuff like mounts and pets start being a thing.

The issue is they are full committing to the whole sandbox mmo world aspect, and are doing all word building and useless feature to try and be 'immersive' and stuff. But the issue is none of that adds fun. and most of it reduces fun. And a games #1 purpose is supposed to be to be fun. So I cant imagien MO2 doing that well. Its only players will be the people with infinite time on their hands who arent looking for fun, they just want a second world to sit in.

 

[Tzone]

@Jatix I really think Henrik doesnt care. He dont even play the game yet thinks he knows how it is. Doesnt now basic things like mage armor weight is 2kg not 4kg for the threshold. He doesnt even know the basics of the game.

He really doenst know better, not dealing with all the annoyances of the game like reserves, stamina, mana regen, travel and any other time sinks.

Games future looks less promising each patch they put out. With Elden Ring coming out the month after launch will be around the time that people will start realizing the game is broken.

The sliver of hope for the game is fading

 

[Najwalaylah]

all word building and useless feature to try and be 'immersive' and stuff. But the issue is none of that adds fun

Yeah, NO.
Just make suggestions for improving the Reputation & Flagging systems. You're much better at that.

 

[Turbizzler]

While the cesspool of MO1(Tindrem) was like its own little mini map inside Myrland - With murder, thievery, trolling, traders spamming yell macros etc etc creating this living breathing pile of aids, that was fun.

In saying that, Tindrem was also implemented in a terrible way in MO1 - Took a lot of the early game fun & risk that existed Pre-Awakening away. Not a good idea to have almost everything you need to start off in one place.

 

[Tzone]

Mortal Online - Steam Charts

An ongoing analysis of Steam's player numbers, seeing what's been played the most.

steamcharts.com

Look at this. A big 'meme' people used to say is that "well steamcharts doesn't accurately show all the players!!" and while that is true, the number of players it didn't show wasn't some hidden giant number. At best it was half of the current population. This game struggled to manage a healthy population due to a lot of decisions which drove people AWAY.

Hell, according to Steam Charts the highest amount of players was 1,017 for the MO2 Stress Test but since Star Vault never openly shows any form of data they just put out their own numbers without really any proof.

Sub is a big reason I came to the game. I was tired of cashshops. At least in this game when its inconvenient its not to get you to open your wallet. But its more inconvient then those games they purposfully make the game worse in order to get more money from people who will pay to make it less worse.

The steam charts are entirely wrong. They were only showing people with the stress test launcher that didnt have their profiles private. Steam no makes the profiles private and doesnt release the API anymore.

The nodes in game which are servers hold just over 1k players and were being filled during stress test. Like the fab server was reaching cap serveral times and the server needed to move the node lines to take load off. This is not even considering the haven servers which they can spin up as many as they need to take the bulk of the new player load.

Just from wish list which is 150k people it is probably for 32k-54k players with in the first 3 weeks of the game. This is determined by what other wish list have brought in.

SV only needs 8k they said to keep the current dev speed going. Have a good buffer of players they can lose until they have to start letting devs go.