Its all about keeping PvErs happy, otherwise Nave will look similar to Lion King after Scar and the Hyenas took over.
There must be balance or the circle of life will be broken
There must be balance or the circle of life will be broken
MO2 an Anti-PVP PVP Game
- Thread starter Big Lips
- Start date
Except MO2 is still going to die just liek the others. Just for slightly different reasons. At the end of the dayt, MO2 is meant to be a open pvp world. Everything about the game loop revolves around open pvp. Limiting it to keep some players just loses others. The entire end game is pvp, so as mroe and more people quit, theres less pvp, and more will get bored and quit. Then the PVE players have nobody to trade with, adn their stacks of stuff becomes worthless.
I'm not saying there should be no law system. But people try to make it sound like limiting pvp as much as possible will stop kids from quitting. When thats not the case. People who dont want to get dunked have a massive list of other games they can go play that have much more and better content. The onlyt thing games like MO have going for them, is the open pvp and more lawless nature that creates the sandbox feel.
And to top it off, most of these anti pvp mechanics just screw casuals. The big guilds who live at their keep outside town are all going to be red and KOS every nub they see anyway. And the casuals who want to be able to do that will just quit they arent goign to waste their time running parcels or w/e shit the game thought was a good idea that most reds arent doing.
So what bugs me is the anti pvp mechanics SV uses, work really poorly, with ways to abuse or get around them. And usually are just anti fun. Like being allowed in town, but you have to res 20 mins away. Just feels like a poorly thought out standing system (which it is).
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Devs want to make the game more then a PvP game by punishing and removing PvP content instead of adding RP and PvE content. Devs really just hate PvPers, not much beyond that. They will shoot the game in the foot and harm their most dedicated and interested playerbase.
The worse part is that they could have better systems that would keep people from just killing each other but they rather go the double down with punishment approach instead of doing anything that would work if it did not just game more negatives for PvPing.
StarVault is just some salty people putting the game at risk to get back at people that just want to PvP.
The worse part is that they could have better systems that would keep people from just killing each other but they rather go the double down with punishment approach instead of doing anything that would work if it did not just game more negatives for PvPing.
StarVault is just some salty people putting the game at risk to get back at people that just want to PvP.
The thing is what you call pvpers here and a dedicated player base is like a tiny bit of the players that like such games.
This is no pvp game it's a sandbox with full loot and pvp. while I agree that some very much needed pvp systems like a wardec and lawless zones are not yet it (but planned, so not hate against pvp here). Still the most pvp should not be jumping any blue player you can (which is what most here seem to care about) but guild vs guild, territory pvp and such.
Just look at eve as an example... they have been quite open with there player stats a while back and it was like 80% play in empire space that only here and there travel into low sec or 0.0, most of the rest was in 0.0 with alliance vs alliance pvp and a handfull was what most pvpers writing here want to be: a pk
A healthy sandbox game has way more non PK players so I really hope they will not make a PKs life easier but harder and focus on the pvp stuff that really matters.
Large amount of players like PvP and these types of game. If people are enjoying the PvE thats only because they dont play the game that much.The thing is what you call pvpers here and a dedicated player base is like a tiny bit of the players that like such games.
This is no pvp game it's a sandbox with full loot and pvp. while I agree that some very much needed pvp systems like a wardec and lawless zones are not yet it (but planned, so not hate against pvp here). Still the most pvp should not be jumping any blue player you can (which is what most here seem to care about) but guild vs guild, territory pvp and such.
Just look at eve as an example... they have been quite open with there player stats a while back and it was like 80% play in empire space that only here and there travel into low sec or 0.0, most of the rest was in 0.0 with alliance vs alliance pvp and a handfull was what most pvpers writing here want to be: a pk
A healthy sandbox game has way more non PK players so I really hope they will not make a PKs life easier but harder and focus on the pvp stuff that really matters.
PK is such a disingenuous term for PvP. If you are going around calling PvP PKing then you have a issue.
Everyone wants PvE and no one is against RPing. But PvP is where the depthfull and long lasting content is. You can say that all these people who might spend less then 4 hours a week playing only want PvE but anyone who is putting real hours into the game needs actual content and the PvE is not good in this game.
D
Dracu
Guest
This is a pvp game at its core, always has been, always will be. If SV wanted to make a mmo with pvp as an option then they should go back to the drawing board tbh. No where do i see pvp as an option, its a necessaty for this game to run. Sandbox mmo? Lol the only sand this game has is the conflict between players aka pvp. Remove the pvp and this game will die due to boredom, the pve is lackluster, like really really lackluster.
I mean... a real Mmo with pvp as an option? look at wow, thats a mmo with pvp as an option. If you want to you never have to engage in pvp at any point. It offers vast lore, pve, exploration etc etc. And pvp if you want to engage in pvp.
This game has no optional pvp, you go out you are open for pvp, its not your choice to engage in pvp or not, you are forced into it.
Imo Mo2s only strong point is its interaction between players, they should focus on that. Thats where the game excells others.
I mean... a real Mmo with pvp as an option? look at wow, thats a mmo with pvp as an option. If you want to you never have to engage in pvp at any point. It offers vast lore, pve, exploration etc etc. And pvp if you want to engage in pvp.
This game has no optional pvp, you go out you are open for pvp, its not your choice to engage in pvp or not, you are forced into it.
Imo Mo2s only strong point is its interaction between players, they should focus on that. Thats where the game excells others.
I never said that pvp is not crucial in a game like MO2 or call all pvp PKing but this thread is very much about that PKs want less punishment and all I say is that this sort of pvp should not be the main pvp aspect of a sandbox game with full loot and if it is or will be aka the game becomes a gankbox we basically all can say good bye to a healthy player base. Everyone playing a game like this loves the thrill of possible loss somehow
PvP or let's say conflict and item loss surely fuels the need and desire to pve or accumulate wealth with market pvp or what not and in a solid sandbox more peaceful or pve oriented players indirectly influence conflict with filling up the market, guild materials and what not... all I say is if killing everyone on sight is the norm it will not work...
Eve is a Sandbox, not a gankbox, thats why it works.
There is a huge amount of content that is not pvp and there are very strong protections from pvp. There is highsec where concord kills all criminal attackers (any action to avoid concord is bannable btw.). Incidentally more than 75% of the playerbase can be found in highsec. And even in Nullsec it is quite easy to avoid being ganked when you using the available intel tools.
I have flown in Nullsec for years (in an active zone, not in remote dronelands or something like that) and never lost a ship to gankers ever. The only ships I lost were pvp ships undocked with the specific purpose of doing pvp.
I didn't notice this one.
This game currently IS a gankbox. Which is why i overlooked what you said originally. I see now you're actually trying to suggest the game as is is acceptable.
You've basically explained an argument for why the current game needs to change from what it is.
"Nobody wants to be the victim" Right, but no one ALWAYS is the victim. That is what we all take onboard when we play this game. That sometimes we will be the victim, that is the cost of entry. Anyone who does not understand that doesn't belong here.
Trying to protect these "victims" just means the people who came here to victimize, and be victimized as part of the package, will leave. Those are the core audience of the game, and they are betrayed by the current system.
Also.. There is a skill present even when you "gank" someone; although people loath to admit it. Surprise attacks are fair in an open world. You merely have a narrow view of what "pure pvp" means. Of course, we draw the line at spawnkilling because player participation is rendered impossible.
This term "Gank box" people are using sounds like something a PVEr came up with to label PVP as inherently bad.
There is no such thing as a "gank". You die in PVP because someone ambushed you. That is all. It isn't inherently bad. Had you prepared better, had you brought more allies with you, had you paid more attention, you may have survived.
There is nothing wrong with "ganking". It is JUST PVP.
The only thing i discount as PVP is something that eliminates player participation near entirely, and that would be spawn killing. Everything else is fine and just regular PVP.
There is no such thing as a "gank". You die in PVP because someone ambushed you. That is all. It isn't inherently bad. Had you prepared better, had you brought more allies with you, had you paid more attention, you may have survived.
There is nothing wrong with "ganking". It is JUST PVP.
The only thing i discount as PVP is something that eliminates player participation near entirely, and that would be spawn killing. Everything else is fine and just regular PVP.
afaik PvPers can declare war on each other and PvP the whole day without even the need of a single parcel runo r getting a MC, no?
Why dont they do that? can someone explain?
there are Castle Priests even, sorra cant helpt this level of complaining
The Video is about fair rewards. Your "problem" is about as you say unfair punishment, while others argue the punishment isn't even hard enough.
A agressive PvPers playstyle is diametral opposing all other playstyles, even those who like to play in a open PvP Sandbox, but play defensively.
and because it's a sandbox MMORPG with PvP that does not mean everyone will or has to agree with constant fighting.
Some just want the thrill or the danger from PVP, but dont seek it out.
Playing a open PvP Sandbox = agree you can be attacked doesnt mean everyone need to have a KOS playstyle and those who have need to be toned down.
People all over the world enforce laws to make a better living for everyone. Sadly we need to do this, because some human beeings lack social competencies and emapthy and have learned anti social behaviours as their strategy.
In this game some laws of the same quality exist to tone down the griefing and the "i dont care for my fellow players i just want to see the world burn and give a shit about noobs and carebears, because i'm a super cool skilled videogamer, that i have to teach them a lesson and pwn them all time." elitist PVP.
And you are constantly blaming and insulting other players because of their playstyle, call them noobs, carebears, potatoes, have a butthurt ego... etc...
tbh the most butthurt ego in this thread is you.
you just have no points other than: "it's a PvP game and i cannot play like i want to, but complain hard on the forums and mock a little without any substance in what i spew out. " plus dergorative speaking against other players.
Why dont they do that? can someone explain?
again: change spawn, problem solved
This is plain ignorant and not searching for solutions but having a cause to not even try.
there are Castle Priests even, sorra cant helpt this level of complaining
That has nothing to do with what you say it does.
The Video is about fair rewards. Your "problem" is about as you say unfair punishment, while others argue the punishment isn't even hard enough.
A agressive PvPers playstyle is diametral opposing all other playstyles, even those who like to play in a open PvP Sandbox, but play defensively.
and because it's a sandbox MMORPG with PvP that does not mean everyone will or has to agree with constant fighting.
Some just want the thrill or the danger from PVP, but dont seek it out.
Playing a open PvP Sandbox = agree you can be attacked doesnt mean everyone need to have a KOS playstyle and those who have need to be toned down.
People all over the world enforce laws to make a better living for everyone. Sadly we need to do this, because some human beeings lack social competencies and emapthy and have learned anti social behaviours as their strategy.
In this game some laws of the same quality exist to tone down the griefing and the "i dont care for my fellow players i just want to see the world burn and give a shit about noobs and carebears, because i'm a super cool skilled videogamer, that i have to teach them a lesson and pwn them all time." elitist PVP.
And you are constantly blaming and insulting other players because of their playstyle, call them noobs, carebears, potatoes, have a butthurt ego... etc...
tbh the most butthurt ego in this thread is you.
ignorance part 2
you just have no points other than: "it's a PvP game and i cannot play like i want to, but complain hard on the forums and mock a little without any substance in what i spew out. " plus dergorative speaking against other players.
ah yes this is why thousands of people play uo free shards with the old rule set and have been for 20+ years
Because for PVPers to do that, it allows spawn killing. That is exactly why i said there should be a rep-less town that has guards. I'd be fine with what you're suggesting if the PVP town had guards. But it doesn't work when you have groups saying "i own this town" like a low IQ potato, and then they justify repeatedly spawnkilling people all day.afaik PvPers can declare war on each other and PvP the whole day without even the need of a single parcel runo r getting a MC, no?
Why dont they do that? can someone explain?
again: change spawn, problem solved
This is plain ignorant and not searching for solutions but having a cause to not even try.
there are Castle Priests even, sorra cant helpt this level of complaining
That has nothing to do with what you say it does.
The Video is about fair rewards. Your "problem" is about as you say unfair punishment, while others argue the punishment isn't even hard enough.
A agressive PvPers playstyle is diametral opposing all other playstyles, even those who like to play in a open PvP Sandbox, but play defensively.
and because it's a sandbox MMORPG with PvP that does not mean everyone will or has to agree with constant fighting.
Some just want the thrill or the danger from PVP, but dont seek it out.
Playing a open PvP Sandbox = agree you can be attacked doesnt mean everyone need to have a KOS playstyle and those who have need to be toned down.
People all over the world enforce laws to make a better living for everyone. Sadly we need to do this, because some human beeings lack social competencies and emapthy and have learned anti social behaviours as their strategy.
In this game some laws of the same quality exist to tone down the griefing and the "i dont care for my fellow players i just want to see the world burn and give a shit about noobs and carebears, because i'm a super cool skilled videogamer, that i have to teach them a lesson and pwn them all time." elitist PVP.
And you are constantly blaming and insulting other players because of their playstyle, call them noobs, carebears, potatoes, have a butthurt ego... etc...
tbh the most butthurt ego in this thread is you.
ignorance part 2
you just have no points other than: "it's a PvP game and i cannot play like i want to, but complain hard on the forums and mock a little without any substance in what i spew out. " plus dergorative speaking against other players.
Don't say "go somewhere else"; right, somewhere else you can be spawn killed. Maybe you won't, maybe you will. But being able to play the game becomes a constant coin-flip every moment based on whether people want to spawnkill or not.
You're basically arguing against a point that was never made. Do you think PVPers should be spawnkilled? Yes/no?
That is the question you need to answer.
If you say "yes" it means you're angry at PVPers and think they should suffer for choosing to play the way they play. That is what i think is dumb, and that is why the game is anti-pvp.
pro statt loss and MC lasts 24h ig time etc...
cant wait the complains about more harsher consequences for PK's ^^
i was thinking about a post versus spawnkilling and suggest that someone with MC's from a priest in a lawless town cannot interact with the NPC's there until MC's have decayed, but i already know the thread will get ripped by people stating SV and i hate PvP etc.
NPC's living in a lawless town may trade with criminals, but would they do if they witness murdring their customers in front of them?!?
i'm pro much harsher consequences for criminal actions, such as NPC's wont interact with you while having a MC.
Criminal actions should be switchable only once a day and have a 24h timer.
If you enable criminal actions you cannot turn it on and off like you want, be more responsible.
And if you turned grey for whatever reasons and opportunity you should last grey for 4 hours ingame time or 24h offline at minimum.
If you have summed up 5 MC you should become red and not be able to enter a guarded town, but only lawless towns and if you continue to kill people there and get MC's NPC's wont interact with you.
Is it anti PvP? No it's not.
Guilds at War wont be affected.
It's consequences for KOS PK'ing and griefing.
Is it limiting players having a red/ PK, griefer playstyle? Yes
Why? To get the game out of a niche and become a successfull game that is not a PvP game only
It's a RPG game and PvP is in service of that RPG core to make it more immersive and RP'ish.
Nothing more bad than to RP without PvP possible and also nothing more bad to have people doing PvP in an RPG without consequences and make it a PvP Game only, when it is not.
The problem many open PvP Games have is not the open PvP or full loot, tons of roleplayers, carebears and noobs like that, but the communities who dont play fair and make PvP comprehensible for everyone, have consequences in their RPG world etc.
Again those who want to fight all day, can declare war on each other and fight the whole day without any consequences.
Those who want to fight people, that dont want to fight constantly can do that, but will suffer penalties and have consequncies.
That is a light version of consnesual PvP, although a guild cant do anything if another wardec's them.
So the consent to PvP is still very favoring the agressor, but still somewhat existent.
And this is because the RPG that want to be successfull and more than just another PvP Game or Gankbox or KOS Sandbox etc. needs gamemechanics that tone PvP down, make the ganking, griefind and generally losing to hardcore 24/7 PvPers bearable and still be able to make a living.
This is trying to limit PvP to a level that more than only PvPers can like the game.
If nobody has understand that from MO1 or many other games or looks at EvE and Albion and how they do that, i cant help.
I dont want safezones, i dont want PvP is restricted, but i fully agree on consequences for PvP based on criminal actions and having laws in the game.
I agree that spawnkilling is bad, but there are already ways to avoid it, but i'm not against a better mechanic or what i have suggested above.
I wish people would act more responsible and comprehensible and i want to add that to me every multi account player is already an exploiter and not playing the game like intended, not fully responsible for his actions ingame, working around restrictions the game has for good reasons.
And that is not only Reputations systems, but also crafting etc.
Many players refuse to play game like MO, because the communities exagerate at playing videogames and tell you that exploiting everything is normal.
One can exploit in 4X games as much as he can, because it's part of the games design and how to play it.
To circumvent given restrioctions in a online RPG, exploit them by having more characters than intended, refusing to accept limitations, refusing to accept the games design is what makes a lot of players refuse to play in such communities, and only that is the problem the game has.
Not missing features, bugs, Server Capacity, but the community who want to reduce an online RPG to a PvP game and game the systems rather than playing the game.
If you want to turn this from RPG into a PvP only Game i will argue against that.
And that is what we discuss here.
Some MO players want to make the game about PvP only and 24/7, but this is not what a RPG should be, a RPG should be about a lot more and PvP only one thing that adds to the immersive and unforgiving character of the world. But if everything in that RPG evolves around PvP only, it wont attract enough players to be fundable longterm.
Simple as that, and we have lot's of already failed games in that category.
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In MO I am a sheep, a noncombatant who travel and trade between towns in the Tindremic provinces. Despite all the player brigands/murderers I manage to make a profit and have fun doing it. I only wish that I could give mc's and teleport to priest after death. Honestly, the murderers are the reason I play, they add the danger and excitement that make travel interesting.
Sounds like you got a low IQ. Guy didn't whine at all. He just called you out for being a bitch. It goes both ways. You want no consequences for RPK, yet the people that live where there are no consequences aren't good enough for you. Priest camping is exactly what people like you 'making the law' turns into. You must have some type of major malfunction going on with your twisted line of thought on the matter.
I don't know where you're pulling this garbage from, but he doesn't seem very angry. You seem infuriated by the fact that the game doesn't cater to every desire you have. Nobody wants PvPers sealed away. There is PvP all the time pretty much everywhere in mortal, and I have yet to run into one of these 'fuck the pvpers they shouldn't be allowed to exist' unicorns that all of you whine-ass RPKers spend your time bawling about on the forums. Like several others have said on here; if you just want some 'harmless fun' in a PvP game you wouldn't be playing mortal. You want easy ganks and free kills, and you're here whining because it's becoming more difficult.
The ego on you my guy. Come here crying and stamping your little feeties because you don't get your way.
there's gonna be 1 red priest in the game, on a rock, way out to sea. haha. RIP.
The problem with "PvPers" is they aren't formulating their argument right. In a way, PvErs actually have a better argument due to how both are presented. In life, words matter. When you say "This is a pvp game, pvp is necessary..." I think that what you mean IS TRUE, but how you are interpreted is not.
Again, I say PLAYER INTERACTION is what is necessary. PvP is just one of the options. I made a vid of just walking around on foot for an hour and a half, I walked even more, to MK, tamed a steppe, and rode back to Bakti (cuz was gonna meet someone in duli,) main server... no alts, nothing happened to me. Saw a few people, I didn't fight them, they didn't fight me. A lot of the people in this game ARE NOT GOING TO KILL YOU AND ROB YOU no matter what. I do think pure flagless might be a bit too hardcore, but it should be something close to that. Like the faith in humanity restored thread, you'd be surprised. The main thing you need to do is find a way to keep everyone from nut cupping and just farming weak guilds/solos. That's the only thing you really want to prevent. That's 'sandbox,' too, but that's what will make people quit the game, massive zerg alliances. Sure, it's kind of impossible to stop as well, but none of these changes are helping! Apparently, people are still getting PK'd on the daily and quitting the game, too, haha. So it's like ??
The assumption in MO1 was every time you saw someone they would attack you. I did not roll w/ that and would go up to people. Sometimes I would get rekt. Most of the time, I wouldn't haha. It's dif when you run into a group, but person to person, I had high success just walking up to people. The fact that they CAN kill you, maybe they're red and they have nothing to lose, either, just makes the interaction more interesting. THAT is the ENVIRONMENT we want. That is what is going to make the game lively.
Stop thinking about people ganking your miner and killing your horse when people say PvP is necessary. That's just one thing that one jackass did. They should be able to do it, but that's not what people mean. And when you restrict things to decs, you just end up making it into MORE MEGA ELITIST/ZERG ALLIANCES FARMING ALL THE SMALL GUILDS. If everyone can pvp equally, a small guild/group can be a thorn in the side of almost any guild, def any guild around a blue town. Everyone needs a little power. I don't mind living within the frame work that larger guilds develop, but I'm gonna go fuck w/ them if they push my buttons. If you remove that option or punish me in a way that doesn't affect them, that's gonna make me wanna play the game less.
A lot of the people here posting are already set up to have PvP more or less without consequences. I don't understand why SV wants to keep people out of towns because the first sign of MO dying was when towns were dying after TC (imo!) towns are a hub for player interaction. Everything is pvp in a way. Broker is pvp, farming is pvp, get you fucking horse out of the doorway is pvp. Haha. But really I prefer "player interaction," and no lawless zone is gonna fix this because people will camp. The only way is if lawless zones are basically THE WHOLE MAP cept for closely around cities.
I legit feel like MO/SV whatever you wanna say is shooting itself in the foot. Patch after patch where they either do nothing or make the game worse or more gated. Solo players and small groups make this game. I PROMISE YOU. We all are gonna end up putting up TC (prol,) but people coming into the game want to do their own thing and start their stuff, get a feel for everything THEN move on. If end game pvp is gated by TC you basically put everyone who doesn't instantly tag up (not really the kind of people who drive games, no offense,) at a disadvantage. Then you have to work to pvp. I do think that some parts of pvp should be tied to your TC structure so that you can be sieged as a punishment for the things you have done... but there's 0 reason to lock people out of towns or make them KoS. Seeing your enemies in town is GOOD for the game. They use the broker, too, they put things on broker, too.
I just don't see 'the vision' anymore. I said I hope the patch has a surprise in it, and it did... that 5 minute war cool down thing. But, really, do they not realize how massively that affects the war dec system? Longer than grey. KoS by guards? Dawat? It's sad, to me, because I hate to see someone failing. It's like watching someone fall into serious drug addiction and not being able to do anything. You can try to reason with them, but it doesn't work.
LESIGH.
people just gonna setup a spiritist alt for rezzing, iirc i already saw one named rezz alt ^^
but good they have to pay for that, cause "everything that gives SV money to further develop the game is good" bs.
i just lol about a lot whats going on and play my game and having fun.
curious how long it takes until the community and the mindset of many players spoil it for me.
About player interactions.
I play on- and offline games, i have to admit i like to play in an environment with other players, because they act more unpredictale and you can make friends and foes and your overall reputation is something that counts.
But for me it is already a player interaction if i spotted someone and then avoid any contact and get away.
Sometimes i like to speak to others even outside of town and i also often risk to get attacked while beeing optimistic about an encounter.
I often dont run away, even with loot i dont want to lose, but risk getting killed. My build is not min maxed or a good fighter build. I play a human and immersion, style and what i have fun with is more important to me than to have max. DPS or best defenses etc.
What many PvPers seem not to understand or communicate in a bad ways is, that i therefore do not dislike PvP or play in an open PvP full loot game, but that i dont want the game to be seen, played or advertised as a PvP game only, even when a lot about MO is about PVP and it's allways possible, important to have and a good thing.
Open PvP RPG sanddbox doesnt mea it's about fighting all the time or KOS'ing and PK'ing only.
It's, let me quote you:
A lot of "this is a PvP game at it's core" or "this is a PvP Game" players reduce the game to a PvP game only as if everything happening is about PVP and constant fighting.
This way, SV will miss out tons of people who like an open PvP full loot sandbox, a dangerous and lively environment to play a role in but avoiding fights mostly and do teir business their way, because it's a sandbox RPG and not a PvP Game only.
If you make PvP has no consequnces and make MO2 a PvP game and the community a PvP community only, i dont see it's getting out of a niche nor is it fundable long term.
Until i think SV goes into the right direction and regulates and tones down PvP in a comprehensible way so that other players, that aren't that much into PvP can exist without to be losing to much and get frustrated with their playstyle.
Henrik has a vision and has principles, i think what he wants is not what a lot of players do, i dont think he want force people to buy 2 -4 acc's and pay 4 subs, he want players to immerse and roleplay in his game and accept the given restrictions and understand why things are setup the way they are.
I can only hope most players arent like the ones in the forums or like what we see on several channels (i dont watch streamers or alike, but i hear from others what some are up to), i can only hope the community is far more diverse in playstyles and how they act ingame.
Until my experiences ingame are good, i got PK'd, i got ganked, i killed someone by myself, i defended myself successfully and the agressor fled, i met people who roleplayed with me, were friendly, offered help or needed help and asked for advice, i met people i first time mistrusted, but then made up for good companions and i met people i trusted that stabbed me in the back.
if we make MO2 a PvP game and allow KOS PK'ing without hard consequences nobody will trust anyone anymore, everybody will attack first and ask questions later, there will be not much roleplaying or socializing, there wont be many players other than those who want to fight 24/7.
open PvPand full loot in a sandbox RPG is a double edged thing and need to be somewhat regulated.
I played Face of Mankind where everything is playermade. I played other sandbox games, with open PvP like Darkfall, Legends of Aria etc..., i also like Felucca more, but they all had to react to players overstressing PvP for everyone else.
The most efficient way to do that is do make people understand, respect and care for each other so that everyone can play the game he/ she likes how they want and have fun.
The fun of one group cannot be based on the cost of others.
And all it needs is finding compromises that work for everyone.
To talk derogatively about noobs, butthurt ego's, carebears, PvE'rs and beeing elitistic etc. wont change anything.
PVErs playing an open PvP full loot sandbox RPG arent PVE only players, they already agreed in playing in a open pvp environment.
But PvPers wanting a RPG sandbox become a Battle Royale PvP Gankbox aren't respecting other players and their non-fighting focussed playstyles enough and refuse to see how much these players add to a lively online world.
You gotta keep in mind that both sides of this discussion are angry, and in a way they have reason to be because neither side is getting what they actually want with these changes haha. Also, even though I think you said English is not your native language (german, right?), a lot of people are also non native English speakers, so that muddies it as well.
There is just the simple truth that you can't control people's behavior unless you make it impossible. Harsh punishments don't deter people, and the people with keeps and such aren't even bound by them, they are just further isolated and have less reason to interact with players because they can't enter towns, so they kind of become KoSers.
I think a lot about stuff, but there isn't really a good solution to keeping people from being PKed without allowing people to PK undesirables. In an ideal environment, there would be a benefit for pvp that couldn't be exploited by killing your buddy (prol what they mean by bounty) so that people will go pvp vs people who are pvping instead of just shrugging making a non aggression pact, turning their heads, etc. More fighting is actually better, imo. Let the fighters fight. There should be people fighting over you.
I remember when I came into MO1 I was a nub in MK and RPK kept killing me. And I was talking to my friend who was talking to doom, and in the end, due to all the noobie killing, DOOM entered in a war with RPK (A war they arguably lost, props to RPK for being impossible to defeat,) but that was GOOD CONTENT. Guilds disbanded, they joined DOOM, DOOM was mostly euro and RPK was more American so they would fight each other on off hours, RPK would be taking their towers while they were sleeping. Nothing wrong with that kind of content. But it all starts from minor interactions, and if you limit PvP you are also limiting what we can do outside of that, and the one plus of a sandbox is not being in a caste society where you are basically a peasant (why I rage quit after walls) who has to ask to do anything. You wanna be able to do whatever you want. Sure there is RISK and there are higher risk areas, but you have the ability to do whatever you want IF you can pull it off. I think that's fair.
Re: Henrik's vision, I dunno what to think now after this patch. I didn't know before, but this is really incomprehensible to push this patch back and then release all of this weird stuff. PvPers aren't necessarily bad people. Some can be toxic. Some people think cuz you play the game that they should be able to kill you, or they think if they are more skilled/have more numbers, whatever, they should be able to kill you, but like I said it's the same mindset as people who believe they should NOT be killed because it's not fair. It's fair. It can happen to anyone. I dunno what city you live in or what you're trying to do, but I don't think rampant PKing is one of the problems in MO2 atm. I think they've done almost everything they can to prevent it and people are still not happy. They have effectively changed the game in principle and it's still not enough, so I mean that's why everyone is angry. I am not angry, but I am definitely disillusioned with 'the vision.'
I don't care what tools they put on the table; I just want things to happen. Like the back drop of that RPK v DOOM war, each time you logged in, you wanted to see what was happening, who was gonna win, how was it going to affect your life? But if you make all pvp on that level, then we are all peasants who can't do anything and just wait for the big guilds to decide our path. That's the worst, to me. Like I said I play a sandbox to be able to do what I want. And no that doesn't mean PKing everyone I see... some people think that is, and I say fair enough cuz I wanna do what I want, too, and I even am friends with people who like that playstyle. I enjoy pvp, too, especially crazy outnumbered stuff, get your heart racing etc.
The game needs all types of people. It needs to have good gains for the PvErs who are willing to take the risks and succeed and it needs to open up the tools of people to PvP while, at most, limiting things like killing horses in towns, IMO. In Mo1, I had soph cooking, so I mean when I got my stuff home I had the fun (early on) of experimentation and later just knowing I was going to make mad money and selling/giving stuff to the people I liked. That is the role of the PvEr. You can still be a factor. It's funny how many wanna be PKers I dusted before they nerfed Lyks. It's like I would yell "LEAVE ME ALONE NOO" then just go into third and watch them disappear. So, I mean... I dunno, man. Don't buy into the stuff about people saying "Maybe this isn't the game for you." or "You carebear nub." But on the other hand, try to understand the whole world and all the dynamics that are necessary to build a proper environment, what you can and can't control. And, ultimately, what trying to control pvp can do to a game (like look at some of the shit in MO2 now.)