Mercy Mode Bypass - Poll

[Bernfred]

Would you mind sharing these various reasons?

all NO arguments in this thread

 

[Avenoma]

I personally see the cons outweighing the pros here obviously, but for the sake of argument, do you think that even a naked player at 10 health getting hit in the head with a maul for 170 damage should still be put into mercy mode?

This is just too strong of an argument to not have some bypass.

And a hybrid with a weak healing spell bringing you back from the brink of death after taking an 80damage swing then another 80damage to drop you from 10 to 1. Im just glad im not going to be a fighter. That would infuriate me. Its so immersion breaking to the point where I wouldnt fault people for /unistalling.

A decent solution maybe? Have it be a chance based result after dropping someone below 100 health (or a percentage of their pool) and have increasing chance the closer to 0
Shit, make it a damn primary trait. Death Blow.

Hybrids be like, its just a scratch, when in reality.

 

[Valoran]

We will just disagree. I don't think making life worse for other players so you can have a shortcut is a fair trade, that I won't be convinced otherwise.

You might also consider that should you want to kill someone for a change, you will have to cast another spell every time unless you want to run up and punch them.

Would it not be more satisfying to flame strike your opponent and see him burn to death while running towards you or fleeing than to in all likelihood quickly cast spurt on someone in mercy mode, because why waste good reagents on someone who will die no matter what?

 

[Bernfred]

You might also consider that should you want to kill someone for a change, you will have to cast another spell every time unless you want to run up and punch them.

Would it not be more satisfying to flame strike your opponent and see him burn to death while running towards you or fleeing than to in all likelihood quickly cast spurt on someone in mercy mode, because why waste good reagents on someone who will die no matter what?

use a spell with with tick damage, done.
mercy mode is a game mechanic wheras just dying is none. look what works with the game mechanic not with your situational emotions you feel when you detach someones hands.
one point to add is that you can always choose if you want to kill your opponent and who gets the kill.

 

[Anabolic Man]

Due to a recent conversation in discord it would seem the current intention of Star Vault is to keep mercy mode occurring 100% of the time.

First I will propose how I would implement mercy mode so those who are not interested in the reasoning do not need to read the whole thread to vote on the poll, then I will explain why I am suggesting this.



I propose to implement mercy mode in this way:


A player must be hit past a certain number of negative health to die instantly and bypass mercy mode.

Example:

The threshold is set to 20 negative health. (This chosen threshold is arbitrary and can be tweaked to find a good balance)

A player is on 20 health.

In this example he must be hit for at least 40 damage to be hit into 20 negative health, bypass mercy mode and die immediately.
If hit for any less he will be put into mercy mode.

This negative health threshold ensures that only strong hits on people who are already near death are capable of killing people instantly, whereas weaker hits will always put someone into mercy mode.




The reasoning:


I personally (and I know many others) feel that having mercy mode occur no matter what 100% of the time is not ideal for several reasons:


1. Having an opponent go into mercy mode every single time does not allow for the high impact feeling of suddenly killing someone during the heat of battle.

The death will always come after a moment of relief and when the adrenaline has subsided. Being able to kill someone outright with one strong hit when they are already near death is much more impactful than always having to hit them a second time.




2. It creates potential issues with game balance.

Imagine you're a mounted combat harassing a fleeing group on foot. You ride by and hit one player who is on 10 health already for 50 damage to the head.

Instead of dying, he simply goes into mercy mode and instantly gets healed to full health by his group's healers, and the rest of the group body block for him, so by the time you are turned around and ready to ride in and strike again he is either:

a) Already out of mercy mode and full health
b) Unable to be hit because his group is protecting him while he is still in mercy mode

Not to mention other scenarios such as shooting a naked player with a longbow from a far distance, and instead of killing him he simply goes into mercy mode and can hobble around a corner before you are able to deliver the killing blow.





The counter argument to this suggestion (provided by Sebastian on discord) is that having players go into mercy mode every time ensures that they can trigger an instant client side death for that player when you hit them.

For context, a high ping player such as myself sees a small delay between hitting a player and seeing their health update due to my latency to the server.

This would result in a short delay between hitting a player and him falling over dead, if mercy mode could be bypassed.

My response to this argument is that high ping players such as myself are used to this delay, and experience it 100% of the time while playing and fighting, so this is nothing out of the ordinary and it seems odd to make an exception specifically for killing people.

I would also say that lower ping players would not notice this delay as much and it seems strange to balance a component of combat as crucial as player death around the highest ping players, especially when some of us would prefer to bypass mercy mode anyway.


Others have raised the concern that being able to kill people outright is less convenient for duels or robbery when you don't want to kill someone.

My response to this is simply to look at their health and either do as we did in MO1 and stop just before you kill them, as the duel has usually been decided at that point, or see that they're low on health and don't hit them as hard to not meet the negative health threshold required to kill them instantly.



I believe that what is gained from being able to bypass mercy mode is far more valuable than what is lost in regards to the above mentioned points.

If you have any other concerns about this system please voice them below so we can discuss further.



Thank you for reading.

I think we need to have 3 Options that sometimes result in instant death, a mercy Mode, or a Death animation. I like them in Red dead online and the mod for GTA.

I hope SV will put some Love in the Gore and finishers.

Of coursey it should not be exaggerated. Maybe you could bleed out and be able to walk some meters, crawl on the floor or loose your Head, which result in an instant Death. A death animation should only happen in rare cases.
So that it fits the game and doesn't look strange. But i guess such animations would cost some Cashmoney.

 

[Dracu]

Of course some people such as yourself may disagree and feel that being able to take their time and execute their opponent is always more satisfying, but consider that with the threshold system you get to choose the way you kill your opponent.

If you want to put him into mercy mode so you can gloat and execute him slowly you can choose to do so, or if you happen to have a large weapon and just want to end the fight as quickly as you can, that is also an option.

We have already experienced this in MO1, where you could be put into mercy mode if hit below 10 health, beyond that and you would simply die.

As I have said already, I personally feel much more impact from the fight ending blow being the killing blow, than always having a lull and then simply clicking to finish the opponent.

yeah i see what you mean I gues its one of those cases of personal prefference.
I just hope that click a button to kill is not implemented, this sucked sooo damn hard in mo1.

I mean somebody in mercy mode and you have 4-5 people standing around him and bodyblocking so no weapons reach the guy in MM and then he dies because a person can run in... not even hit the guy but target him click a button and finish the person off. Thats in my personal opinion kinda lame as it removes this group effort.

 

[Bernfred]

I think we need to have 3 Options that sometimes result in instant death, a mercy Mode, or a Death animation. I like them in Red dead online and the mod for GTA.

I hope SV will put some Love in the Gore and finishers.

Oof coursey it should not be exaggerated. Maybe you could bleed out and be able to walk some meters, or something like that, or crawl on the floor. A death animation should only happen in rare cases and sometimes the head should fly off or something like that.
So that it fits the game and doesn't look strange.

haha typical andy, you are lucky gore is on the roadmap and then you can slowly choose what body part you want to swing away.

 

[Anabolic Man]

haha typical andy, you are lucky gore is on the roadmap and then you can slowly choose what body part you want to swing away.

I found it funny how a doctor explained that "Bleed Outs" happen much more often in real life, as in Red Dead online XD

 

[Anabolic Man]

Wish SV would have added quality Skinning Animations.

I hope SV will add pathing, so that an NPC, that got hit with a sword, will run to town and alert the Guards, or something like that. Nothing with high priority, but it would be a nice addon.

 

[Valoran]

yeah i see what you mean I gues its one of those cases of personal prefference.
I just hope that click a button to kill is not implemented, this sucked sooo damn hard in mo1.

I mean somebody in mercy mode and you have 4-5 people standing around him and bodyblocking so no weapons reach the guy in MM and then he dies because a person can run in... not even hit the guy but target him click a button and finish the person off. Thats in my personal opinion kinda lame as it removes this group effort.

I agree, the locked in execution animations weren't that great.

Hopefully we can execute people the way we want to by simply attacking in a different way, so in order to chop someones head off you have to actually hit them in the neck with a strong swing of an axe or similar.

 

[Tehmudjin]

TLDR:

"Let a player enter mercymode only if he take damage 20 damage or less past 0 HP. If more, he instadies"

Idd make it 5 hp tho.

 

[Teknique]

Tell that to the mounted player.

I personally see the cons outweighing the pros here obviously, but for the sake of argument, do you think that even a naked player at 10 health getting hit in the head with a maul for 170 damage should still be put into mercy mode?

Would it not be much more satisfying to see his head crunch in immediately and fall over?

I find the lack of impact and inability to outright kill players to be far worse than anything gained by having an always mercy mode system.

The mounted player is the best argument I’ve seen not to have this.

Instead of mounteds individually picking targets and killing them they should instead be playing support roles and putting people in mercy.

If the position they’re in is truly so risky that they can’t get an additional hit to kill than they shouldn’t be in that position to get a kill in the first place.

Anyone who doesn’t want super op mounteds should vote against this

 

[KermyWormy]

I think having mercy mode as it currently is implemented opens up more opportunities mechanically for them to do some unique things whether we're talking against NPCs or other players, so I'd like to see them explore it this way and see what we get

 

[Fandangoer]

I have to agree with the people voting no. It makes much more sense to have mercy mode on at all times, in more ways than one. As described by others.