Magic Damage

[Evelyn]

Broken build? Are you saying Veela hybrids were OP?

And I would rather not just "adapt and go human". They are the most boring clade in the game.

The INT curve was great for mages why? Because it makes them do more damage than hybrids now? Is that your only reason? Im genuinely interested in what you like about the change so much.

Yeah, the little boost that DEX Mage got has felt great ever since the curve. Not quite as glass cannon as fatmage but still a very strong choice if you favor a bit more survival oriented. I absolutely hated having no reason to have more than 50 INT and dumping everything else into PSY because the old system required you to have your own moons orbiting you in order to get INT high enough to get a meaningful bonus. Having full STR/DEX/CON on my Veela and being able to cast just as powerfully as my "dex" mage (which didn't really exist in any meaningful way at that point in time) made being veela hybrid a no-brainer imo.

Do you really think a human mounted combat melee hybrid with 50 INT and a ton of PSY dumpstat would be fair and balanced? What a nightmare.

 

[Bernfred]

the problem is not the INT curve, the new linear INT curve is the fundament for further improvements.
i would make armor crafting with 3 slots, the 3rd slot for magic +/-
if you think certain builds are too weak then you can buff them with clade gifts.

 

[Evelyn]

PSY having a flat damage reduction on top of resist chance not being enough for people to drop their min-max builds maybe means that it's the stat that actually needs to be looked at.

 

[MolagAmur]

Yeah, the little boost that DEX Mage got has felt great ever since the curve. Not quite as glass cannon as fatmage but still a very strong choice if you favor a bit more survival oriented. I absolutely hated having no reason to have more than 50 INT and dumping everything else into PSY because the old system required you to have your own moons orbiting you in order to get INT high enough to get a meaningful bonus. Having full STR/DEX/CON on my Veela and being able to cast just as powerfully as my "dex" mage (which didn't really exist in any meaningful way at that point in time) made being veela hybrid a no-brainer imo.

Do you really think a human mounted combat melee hybrid with 50 INT and a ton of PSY dumpstat would be fair and balanced? What a nightmare.

I mean I understand what you're saying, but there is more to it. Hybrids have to spend a little over 200 extra primary points over a mage. They had much less mana and mana regen. Mages could invest in more magic schools since they had more points. Mages would earthquake and flamestrike. Mages would mental projectile. Mages could have pets.

I understand 50 INT basically being the cap unless you were a fatmage was dumb. I fully agree with you there. I think nearly everyone would. I agree mages should be a bit more effective than a hybrid as far as damage and healing numbers go. But the change is too drastic and unnecessary.

And from what you're saying, aren't human hybrids basically just as effect as your "dex" mage? They can get full STR/DEX/CON/INT with some points left over for PSY. So it was literally just a Veela nerf and thats what I'm annoyed with. Was the combination of INT and speed just too much? Lol odd... the last time we saw a Veela hybrid meta was what? Dawn? Before metal armors.

I guess I'll just leave the topic be. I seem to be in the minority on it. I'll just have to do some testing later on.

 

[Evelyn]

I mean I understand what you're saying, but there is more to it. Hybrids have to spend a little over 200 extra primary points over a mage. They had much less mana and mana regen. Mages could invest in more magic schools since they had more points. Mages would earthquake and flamestrike. Mages would mental projectile. Mages could have pets.

I understand 50 INT basically being the cap unless you were a fatmage was dumb. I fully agree with you there. I think nearly everyone would. I agree mages should be a bit more effective than a hybrid as far as damage and healing numbers go. But the change is too drastic and unnecessary.

And from what you're saying, aren't human hybrids basically just as effect as your "dex" mage? They can get full STR/DEX/CON/INT with some points left over for PSY. So it was literally just a Veela nerf and thats what I'm annoyed with. Was the combination of INT and speed just too much? Lol odd... the last time we saw a Veela hybrid meta was what? Dawn? Before metal armors.

I guess I'll just leave the topic be. I seem to be in the minority on it. I'll just have to do some testing later on.

I dunno. At times it felt like my veela hybrid was just extremely strong for little penalty. Don't get me wrong I loved it but the extra skill points weren't -too- hard to skim from. I'm not a fan of Flamestrike personally and EQ is so situational I never felt bad about not having those (and still don't, I still have my Veela hybrid just with no PSY). In the right terrain it's still a dangerous build that I think could dance all over thursar heads.

The change wasn't what I hoped for, but I guess feeling like I wasn't forced to play fatmage was the bright side for me.

Nah human hybrids still have to go with no PSY just like Veela ones do, and they still can't max out their INT unless they give up some of their STR/DEX/CON. To me, it all feels like SV wants Hybrids to still be vulnerable to magic so they don't just slaughter mages outright while also being very difficult for pure melee to take down.

 

[Putzin]

How on earth was the INT curve a bad play all it did was make Intelligence linear so that it actually made any kind of sense between 50 int and 110 int lmao

 

[MolagAmur]

How on earth was the INT curve a bad play all it did was make Intelligence linear so that it actually made any kind of sense between 50 int and 110 int lmao

Its been said quite a few times. Feel free to read threads you post in.

 

[Putzin]

Its been said quite a few times. Feel free to read threads you post in.

I read it when you said it I was just making fun of you cuz it was really dumb.

Now that we cleared that up why do you think INT curve was bad?

 

[Runaljod]

I think the hope was that investing more than 60 points would reward more damage at the cost of magic defense, but what they got was the same damage being more expensive to obtain at the cost of magic defense.


First imagine you see comparison of what we had and what we got. Second image you can see a few speculations of how the curve might change before they updated it. As you can see we got a significant nerf to that 50 INT range. fat mage still big stronk.

 

[MolagAmur]

I read it when you said it I was just making fun of you cuz it was really dumb.

Now that we cleared that up why do you think INT curve was bad?

What a stupid thing to say...

 

[MolagAmur]

I think the hope was that investing more than 60 points would reward more damage at the cost of magic defense, but what they got was the same damage being more expensive to obtain at the cost of magic defense.


First imagine you see comparison of what we had and what we got. Second image you can see a few speculations of how the curve might change before they updated it. As you can see we got a significant nerf to that 50 INT range. fat mage still big stronk.

Exactly this. Thank you for showing that.

 

[Putzin]

I think the hope was that investing more than 60 points would reward more damage at the cost of magic defense, but what they got was the same damage being more expensive to obtain at the cost of magic defense.


First imagine you see comparison of what we had and what we got. Second image you can see a few speculations of how the curve might change before they updated it. As you can see we got a significant nerf to that 50 INT range. fat mage still big stronk.

That’s true for a hybrid character yes part of the patch was too nerf hybrids at the time because it didn’t make sense to be anything else. Now you have more defined classes rather than one class to rule them all. I don’t see a problem with this change at all and non mages heal fine for not being a mage. Psy? Works as intended

 

[MolagAmur]

That’s true for a hybrid character yes part of the patch was too nerf hybrids at the time because it didn’t make sense to be anything else. Now you have more defined classes rather than one class to rule them all. I don’t see a problem with this change at all and non mages heal fine for not being a mage. Psy? Works as intended

Okay. First of all, i don't think hybrids were nerfed intentionally and it only really effected Veela and paladin builds. Secondly, "one class to rule them all"? Are you joking? The only time hybrids were that way was in the combat alpha when all our skills were maxed and people were fighting in GK (hybrid city). Hybrids sacrifice a lot to get that bit of magic.

MO1 was around for 10 years and INT always worked the same. Hybrids were overtuned during Dawn and the scale armor era, but after that they fell off pretty hard. It pretty much became not worth once direptor and metal armors came out.

More defined classes? You have cookie cutter fighter and mage builds. How fun...

I hope you're trolling...

 

[Putzin]

Okay. First of all, i don't think hybrids were nerfed intentionally and it only really effected Veela and paladin builds. Secondly, "one class to rule them all"? Are you joking? The only time hybrids were that way was in the combat alpha when all our skills were maxed and people were fighting in GK (hybrid city). Hybrids sacrifice a lot to get that bit of magic.

MO1 was around for 10 years and INT always worked the same. Hybrids were overtuned during Dawn and the scale armor era, but after that they fell off pretty hard. It pretty much became not worth once direptor and metal armors came out.

More defined classes? You have cookie cutter fighter and mage builds. How fun...

I hope you're trolling...

Lol MO1 was around for 10 years how many of those years had over 1k players YUP lets keep INT the same shitty way because a game that died had it

How on earth you could disagree with linear scaling of any attribute is beyond me. Maybe you just didnt play when every1 rolled hybrid because they healed for almost as much as fat mage who knows regardless it was a problem that was solved. Want to heal like a fat mage? Roll a fat mage.

 

[MolagAmur]

Lol MO1 was around for 10 years how many of those years had over 1k players YUP lets keep INT the same shitty way because a game that died had it

Ah yes the game died because of the INT scaling. You nailed it!

How on earth you could disagree with linear scaling of any attribute is beyond me. Maybe you just didnt play when every1 rolled hybrid because they healed for almost as much as fat mage who knows regardless it was a problem that was solved. Want to heal like a fat mage? Roll a fat mage.

I disagree with it because I want more build diversity in this game. Many builds were butchered. I've also said multiple times I think more INT should heal for more, I just think the change was too steep. I never said I "want to heal like a fat mage". But you're just being upset and whining because you disagree with what I've said. And that's fine that you disagree...but no need to act like a child.

Lots of RPGs with attributes have diminishing returns btw. Not MO though. You make your builds around maxing out attributes. Creating less build diversity. Its actually refreshing in New World to make a build.

For example lets say 80 INT is where diminishing returns kicks in. Anything over that gives you more mana and power, but half the value of 1-80. Imagine all the builds that could be used if all the attributes had something similar. People would still max attributes, but some would just hit 80 and invest points elsewhere.

Anyway, I'm getting carried away. We can just stick to the cookie cutters. Its easier for people to understand. Don't bother replying either. I can tell its gonna be some bitchy mess of you asking "why and how".

 

[ElPerro]

Lol MO1 was around for 10 years how many of those years had over 1k players YUP lets keep INT the same shitty way because a game that died had it

How on earth you could disagree with linear scaling of any attribute is beyond me. Maybe you just didnt play when every1 rolled hybrid because they healed for almost as much as fat mage who knows regardless it was a problem that was solved. Want to heal like a fat mage? Roll a fat mage.

LOL I can tell you never played hybrid in a fight. Lets see how many heals (not even counting damage spells) you can cast before going oom with a hybrid mana pool and turning into a trash 8-12 damage bonus warrior with less hp for the remaining of the fight. Theres a reason the top pvp guilds in MO1 would always roll fighters + mages for any serious fight.

I dunno. At times it felt like my veela hybrid was just extremely strong for little penalty. Don't get me wrong I loved it but the extra skill points weren't -too- hard to skim from. I'm not a fan of Flamestrike personally and EQ is so situational I never felt bad about not having those (and still don't, I still have my Veela hybrid just with no PSY). In the right terrain it's still a dangerous build that I think could dance all over thursar heads.

The change wasn't what I hoped for, but I guess feeling like I wasn't forced to play fatmage was the bright side for me.

Nah human hybrids still have to go with no PSY just like Veela ones do, and they still can't max out their INT unless they give up some of their STR/DEX/CON. To me, it all feels like SV wants Hybrids to still be vulnerable to magic so they don't just slaughter mages outright while also being very difficult for pure melee to take down.

LOL at being vulnerable to magic, like your 40-50 extra psy is gonna make any difference. Unless you get 90+ that shit is useless

 

[Putzin]

Ah yes the game died because of the INT scaling. You nailed it!


I disagree with it because I want more build diversity in this game. Many builds were butchered. I've also said multiple times I think more INT should heal for more, I just think the change was too steep. I never said I "want to heal like a fat mage". But you're just being upset and whining because you disagree with what I've said. And that's fine that you disagree...but no need to act like a child.

Lots of RPGs with attributes have diminishing returns btw. Not MO though. You make your builds around maxing out attributes. Creating less build diversity. Its actually refreshing in New World to make a build.

For example lets say 80 INT is where diminishing returns kicks in. Anything over that gives you more mana and power, but half the value of 1-80. Imagine all the builds that could be used if all the attributes had something similar. People would still max attributes, but some would just hit 80 and invest points elsewhere.

Anyway, I'm getting carried away. We can just stick to the cookie cutters. Its easier for people to understand. Don't bother replying either. I can tell its gonna be some bitchy mess of you asking "why and how".

Just a pro tip just because you say someones acting like a child doesnt mean that they are. usually kids call people kids. You might want to look into that if you want people to care about the things you say, embarassing.

LOL I can tell you never played hybrid in a fight. Lets see how many heals (not even counting damage spells) you can cast before going oom with a hybrid mana pool and turning into a trash 8-12 damage bonus warrior with less hp for the remaining of the fight. Theres a reason the top pvp guilds in MO1 would always roll fighters + mages for any serious fight.



LOL at being vulnerable to magic, like your 40-50 extra psy is gonna make any difference. Unless you get 90+ that shit is useless

If I type LOL enough will people overlook my trash points too?

 

[Turbizzler]

I can feel a dent forming at the top of my head from reading some posts in here.

 

[Kelzyr]

It's really too bad putzin derailed this from valuable back and forth to slinging insults instead, gotta love the MO community.

 

[AssassinOTL]

Here's my problem, when I Ask why Mages get Negative Damage Bonuses and Cant do what Other Melee/Archers can do because of their low damage, I'm met with resistance like "well the class isn't supposed to do that" or "it needs another class to do that for it" in terms of PVP and PVE but when it comes to the Foot fighter being able to do things that the Mages alone should be able to do I.e. Healing with just some points into INT, it's being supported heavily, can someone explain to me the Lopsided logic? Because there are bandages, they are there for the Melee to use they are not gimped in that department, but I'm open to hear why.