mage improvement

[boogis]

whats the point in ecunomical spells when u have to stand still? its big disadvantage compare to worriors or archers who move and attack. i understand that if mage damage was huge then yes. but its not. otherwise u must stand while u being hit by strong and armored enemies. u must either make mage very strong or get rid of standing still issue. also u must add a lot more spells cos its a mage, mages must have a lot of veriety. u practically use only couple of spells. thank u

 

[Hodo]

I agree and disagree with you.

So an archer can not really move and attack, if you try and run and shoot your bow your odds of hitting anything is slim at best. Then there is the damage you do, even the best longbow barely does 20 damage to a person in steel plate and it will NOT weak spot them.

Melee is a different animal. As they have to be in your face, but they have the highest DPS, highest potential alpha damage and they have the ability to move and hit making melee by far the most damage dealing combat style in game.

Magic on the other hand has pretty limited range 50m is the best range of any spell. It does have the highest through armor alpha of any combat style in game. With spells that can hit well above 70 damage, ignoring armor. BUT magic also is the ONLY combat style that damage can be cut in half with a single attribute psyche. Put your psyche at 50 or better and there is a fairly good chance of getting resists on the spells which effectively halves the damage.

But to quote Henrik, "Necromancy will be the answer youre looking for."

While I dont believe that one bit, because my experience with necromancy in Mortal Online 1 showed me it was really not that useful. Its extremely limited range of 20m, and meh applications outside of edge cases meant most necromancers used ecuminical spells WAY more than necromancy.

 

[boogis]

Thank u for your reply, but I also agree and disagree with you. I can't be a necro cos I'm mage dominator. And domination is stucked to ecu. I don't have enough space for necro, I'm full. I like the balance you ve described, but I'm top fat mage and when I met archer I had not chance with him at all. I had to stand still and all the time I cast he always interrupt me with arrows. I don't mind it but standing still made me an easy target. Give me at least possibility to maneuver.

 

[Icegoten]

I think you're looking at this from a 1v1 perspective which I don't think should be the only perspective you take into account when balancing combat. Many different scenarios will playout in all sorts of battles of Nave and there are ones where each type: Warrior, Archer, and Mage excel in.

1v1 and close quarters melee should always win.
1v1 and able to keep distance archer should always win.

When group play starts happening is when I believe mages are in the right place to always win. Ideal scenario would be mages in the back being defended and uninterrupted to make full use of ecumenical school of magic. The times the mage is charging an ecumenical spell is their vulnerable state which is when archers should fire for a chance at interrupting the channel while the warriors are rushing in to take out the mages. If you allow movement while charging all of the ecumenical spells then what chance does anyone have of stopping a fast mage? Archers won't be able to hit them and and melee will be spending more stamina and time running after them than hitting them.

The Elementalism school of magic in MO1 I think did a great job at displaying the vulnerability of a mage so they could be stopped. I think the weather changing effects were like 10 seconds to cast and you would need to cast it multiple times to get the weather to the desired one for your spells. This means it's something highly telegraphed what the mage is trying to do so people have to get to them somehow and stop them before destruction is unleashed.

Ecumenical is meant to be the base magic school so I think it does it's job well but I know how it feels if you're not interested in weapons there just isn't much to do at the moment. It feels so rough to struggle with bandit camps by only using magic but a melee player can clear it out in a few minutes. Sadly we just have to wait for years before we get more magic schools and different ways to play =/

 

[boogis]

YES, I TOTALLY AGREE WITH YOU. that should that way and I was always proposing the holy trinity mage-warrior-archer thing. and 100% archer must-win mage cos arch is anti-mage but it feels bad when you don't even have a chance to oppose. if they give us at least not standing still an option then we will still lose to archer but at least we feel like we tried. and this is fair don't you think? cos mages are actually anti-warriors and in this case moving around while casting makes the mage really anti-warrior cos warrior cant catch them and the mage cast from the distance so he loses stamina to get him, in this case, dex arch and rogue are really anti-mage guys. but from another hand really top int mage like fat mage is really low on stamina so even a warrior can catch him if he really tried unless the mage already killed him cos he is an anti-warrior. do you see what I mean? that would be a real balance as I see it. correct me if I'm wrong. I think that standing still kills that one on one privilege of mage to warriors. but in a group fight maybe yes it's better if the mage must stand still, but in this case, I think it's better if they have more distance or more power. correct me if I'm wrong again thank you

 

[Tashka]

that should that way and I was always proposing the holy trinity mage-warrior-archer thing

I hate rock-paper-skissors in games like this. You don't always run in big groups and it sucks when you meet a hard counter to your class in a supposedly skill-based game. I really believe every "class" should be able to 1v1 vs every other class, maybe performing a little better vs some classes and worse vs others, maybe performing slightly better in big group fights and a little worse in 1v1/small scale, but still be competitive in all situations. Honestly, as shit as it is, Crowfall almost nailed it, but of course it's easier to balance a game that has a class system instead of a skill system.

The problem with necromancy is that it doesn't provide that much benefit to anyone other than alvarin mages. And even then you'll probably have to give up the ability to have shield/dagger to be able to cast in combat mode, at full speed. And since we don't have unarmed blocking, any desync/prediction fuckup would kill you even when you think that you've measured the distance perfectly.

 

[boogis]

holy trinity must be in a game like mortal. i hate games like wow where difference between arrow and fireball is just an animation. but it must work properly in my opinion. if mage meets archer or rogue it must die. if warrior meets mage it must die. if archer meets warrior archer must die if cought cos its cant reach through the heavy armor

 

[Tashka]

i hate games like wow where difference between arrow and fireball is just an animation

It doesn't have to be like that. Again, in Crowfall, each class plays entirely differently but there's barely any rock-paper-skissors. In Mortal, the trinity would fuck over solo players and take away the fun of it, and most players play solo a lot anyway. Imagine it's a "skill based game" but 1/3rd of the time you meet someone who is your hard counter and there's almost nothing you can do to win, and another 1/3rd of the time you meet someone you counter which results in a too easy fight. So in 2 situations out of 3, it's no fun. Add situations when you meet groups that outnumber you heavily (which of course is unavoidable) and it becomes even worse.

 

[boogis]

yes i know. but personally i like it. thats a spirit of all fantasy lore. i personally would create it even more difficult. cos now no matter how different you are you still input the same effort into leveling. in my dream, i wanna see warriors very powerful physically but very low to magic resist but very easy to lelvel up. but mages extremely difficult to level up but extrymly powerful. however if warrion will be able to reach mage it will be killed in one shot unless mage cast physical damage barrier sphere. thats my dreams anyways but i like the trinity. not that you dont have a good point but i just like it. all i need is to stand still removal so that i can at least try to oppose

 

[boogis]

btw its still fun for mage escape from archer. its still fun for mage to catch a warrior. and its not one sided. if warrior hit mage or mage hit archer they are in trouble so if you play good its still fun but if you suck you always gonna. cos like you said its a skill based game

 

[Albanjo Dravae]

Magery is not proyectile based i rest my case.