There is absolutely skill involved in hitscan spells. I know this because I suck at it.
Is there a plan to nerf magic soon?
- Thread starter Zbuciorn
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People with low ping have a much easier time landing spells. If your ping is higher than 100 you start getting some very wonky shit happening. You have to hold your cross hair on the target for half a second before releasing the spell, otherwise it will fizzle.
So yea, when people say “hit scan is brain dead easy” they are talking about EU gameplay. Everyone else has it much harder.
Guess what, people with low ping have a much easier time doing anything in the game, especially archery
I'm on US ping and I find archery much easier to hit people at close to medium range, than hitting with hitscan spells. However, I also have like 1000 hours in Chivalry 1 as just an archer, so maybe my brain is just broken, lmao
People say "spells are hitscan and therefore require no skill" yet majority of footies can't parry even though it's literally just seeing what your opponent is doing and moving your mouse in the appropriate general direction.
Dude... animal care is 100 points, CC is another 100 points. Sure you can heal a pet, and vet is much better at it than ecu - you just press a button and go on swingin. Can't spend 200 pts on the best ability in the game that annihilates anything not covered in steel from ass to ears?
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Vet skill is not gonna work in the middle of combat dude, more specifically, it's when somebody is swinging swords at your pet, the only way to outheal the swords is with light heals.
And generally, as a footfighter, you really cannot afford 200 points on veterinary of all things, noone does it.
Usually, what you see is a tamer, who is a full mage, or a footfighter, who is a full nothing else, cause the guy cannot even afford mounted archery anymore
The fact that they 'tried' moving casting and it's still in a game is shameful, and magic can't be numerically balanced (not properly) until that is removed. Ideally you want people who gotta sit still for a sec to charge a spell + can get interrupted THEN they can blast out some good magic tho. I remm at by duli fighting Obama and his boy before I quit and watching that mage just carry and eat everyone. I was pseudo peeling for him, but mainly the enemy kind of realized they were not gonna get him. So much so that I could take time to bandaid walking up while he was getting chased around a rock by 2 people cuz I KNEW there was no way they could get him. Then dude raw soloed a shield ogh. Dude went in the house and got dunked like a scared child.
It was at that point I realized... MO... is not the same. It was a fun situation THEN, but in big groups I bet it's AWFUL. Seriously, FIX MAGIC, and remove moving casting. You guys really fucked that up. Most games have rooted casting, even if you're just charging certain attacks. Being rooted is a strategic thing. It opens the whole game up. Shuffling can still get you killed, but the movement is tuff... and maybe they added the handle hits so that skinny magi get battered more. Still, not a proper fix.
I feel like MO Devs are lacking a certain understanding of how to fix core issues. 2k people tho. DAILY.
I'm so sorry for everyone who is still invested in MO. Be glad at least that all the other games suck, too, but at least it's not grievously offensive ha.
It was at that point I realized... MO... is not the same. It was a fun situation THEN, but in big groups I bet it's AWFUL. Seriously, FIX MAGIC, and remove moving casting. You guys really fucked that up. Most games have rooted casting, even if you're just charging certain attacks. Being rooted is a strategic thing. It opens the whole game up. Shuffling can still get you killed, but the movement is tuff... and maybe they added the handle hits so that skinny magi get battered more. Still, not a proper fix.
I feel like MO Devs are lacking a certain understanding of how to fix core issues. 2k people tho. DAILY.
I'm so sorry for everyone who is still invested in MO. Be glad at least that all the other games suck, too, but at least it's not grievously offensive ha.
What are you on? Pets currently don't have armor, you aren't outhealing shit regardless. Takes only a few seconds to kill a pet as a footie.
BWAAHAHAHYHAHAHAHA
You'r whining that mages can now slowwalk while casting?
If someone is that fast that you can't catch them moving slowly while casting won't make a differrence at all. You'd get wasted regardless if he can move an extra meter or two.
If the Ogh chasing the mage was retarded enough to chase and not just pull out his longbow and 3 shot him, whose fault this really is.
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I had it on tape... heh, I WAS THERE. PLAYING. If that dude pulled out a long bow he would have gotten speared ruthlessly. He prol couldn't even aim it thru the dmg flings. I don't understand this bow thing. Are people suddenly able to hit magi with arrows? Cuz that wasn't a thing before haha, not people who are as good as this dude was.
I didn't figure anyone would respond. Are you a mage main? Surprised you are sayin shit @ me, but lol. Yeah, core feature. Not many games have moving casting. Rooting while doing special attacks is a completely balanced, normal game mechanic. It blows my mind that you can't see how being able to shuffle makes it easier to get away. As I explained in another thread, imagine you can heal 2 times and take 4 hits if you are rooted, if you can heal 3 times, that is an amazing difference. I even am offended by the term shuffle casting. It's nuts, just like let's do a little dance here and cast a spell.
A little movement, a juke, a forced handle, etc. It's just completely different, man. I'm done w/ whining. I just am now sure that I was right. I knew it was going to make a massive impact, but I have no idea they would reshape the game around magic. I thought they added schools for non-melee players, but I never thought MO would be like this. I could log in and do w/e, even tho all the shit I had prol fell. haha. I could do w/e forever, almost no effort, solo... the only way that people could stop me is to put multiple people on me, and eventually they would get tired of it. STILL, this game has taken a fucked up turn and it will not recover. It's by far the most ridiculous thing I've ever seen, if you account for what it was, even in this shabby state, pre and post. I can't imagine ever playing this game again, and that's fucking sad. That's some printable shit. It's like "you finally did it, SV." I can finally leave my full review on steam. loool. You know?
But yea, that's all that needs to be said, I just wanted to say it. It's just something that makes me shake my head while typing.
- Thursar flies off in his space ship. -
Ok so now it's a group fight and the oghs aren't chasing a solo mage around a rock anymore?
If the dude can't hit his shots it's definitely a game balance issue and not a skill one, that's for sure. /s
People just got used to easy mode bow shots where mages gave you free headshots if they wanted to cast.
Let me tell you a secret. Want to know why MO uses in it's base a pre-cast system where you are rooted while casting and then move with the spell prepped? Because Ultima Online worked the same way. No other reason, nothing to do with balance either.
You DO NOT need a rooted casting system in a game where aiming a spell is another skill factor (something never present in UO incidentally due to it's isometric nature). That's why ecumenical is hitscan and elementalism isn't.
Want to know why the game heavily incentivizes mage pets (and mundane healing is forced to use bandages unmounted)? Because Ultima Online worked this way.
/s read the first post /s. I stated the /s/ituation. I am pretty good at /skimming posts and not mis/sing the point, but it's not for everyone. It's still there, no edit, go back and check it out when you can.
Glad to know why MO chose that.
Can you name some pvp games without rooted special attacks? Because as I see it, in the games I played, magic was a back line rooted thing, archers or other-such auto attack/interrupt rangers were anti caster and melee was just... melee. It balanced out. Oh, and there was healing, healing also requires rooting. Shoot in GW1 if you brought healing signet you'd have to put that up for like 3 seconds in the middle of the battle to get it off; they had res, too, and that was something that gave you ample time to interrupt. Even games like leeg have rooted special attacks, or did when I played, they just are faster and there are dashes, too, and yea some are not, but you can tell which ones are because the auto attack hitches while they fire it off. We're not talking about one spell or two spells or one school that is not, we're talking about every spell in the game.
Magi went thru major changes, less able to be interrupted, movable. TBH I don't even think about this crap that much, so I'm letting myself forget all the BS they've done. Oh less cast time on mount!
The one thing I'm gonna state, then I'm getting out of here because like I said U AIN'T EVEN READIN DA POSTS. Something occurred to me, and while I doubt it will appeal to the devs and player base, it's an observation I want to share. MO was low fantasy to me because it was a front line melee game. We were riding on lizards and shooting bows and such, but the 'meat' of battles was front lining. They are moving it back to a more traditional high fantasy 'back line' damage game, and that's one of the best things about MO, the DIFFERENT combat, or was to me.
I was pretty good at shooting people w/ arrows tbh. Esp once I got exit lag. I didn't use long bows, either. I loved the physics of arrows and did well with lobbing them into like... head shots on horses of people I was behind haha. Nonetheless, hitting a mage who can go around the corner and charge a spell and put it on you before you can pull you bow + you have like 84 dex and they have... dono like 120++? It's not really a realistic scenario. Obviously, if they have a huge group of magi you could just fire bows at them, but in real world NOT in an open field, the magi who are shuffling around have a huge advantage vs archers.
I'll come back in awhile and check but if you wanna post some vids of archers body bagging good magi, please do, because that's what archers are supposed to do in games, believe it or not. That's the whole purpose of the class, arguably, so that a lot of them even have base magic resist in games.
Peace...
In your post you stated 2 guys were chasing the mage around a rock and did not mention this was a large group fight.
The reason you think nobody reads your posts is because you just vomit text in a word salad train of thought kind of way.
About games where casting doesn't root you to the ground it's the majority of games that have instant spells (ergo, a majority of mmos), only channeled spells ike in wow channeling root mages since mobility is the bread and butter of ranged builds. MO strangely enough does not contain a single instant cast spell for some reason.
So, your counter argument to not being able to shoot a mage is that he can charge and cast a spell before you can switch to a bow? Newsflah bro, you can actually move and hide with a bow. Also, you weren't using longbows? Is this some sort of ironman hard mode you've selected for yourself so that you gimp yourself on purpose?
The line about 84 vs 120 dex can easily be countered by the hp difference between the two. You know full well that alvarins are top of the food chain. Try fighting a human mage with 94dex, the issue is not moving slowly while casting. The issue is the game's horrible stat design. You'r not having issues chasing the guy while he's actively casting, you cannot catch up to him while he is NOT casting.
You should've known by now that a mage counter is an alvarin and not an ogh. They picked ogh? Well tough luck, join the other non elves in the conga line.
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it was 2v2. haha. 3 actually, I think some Koto was sniping from afar. I dove into dudes house and the mage ran in ( one of the funniest moments in MO history me doing the 400 yard dash into those dudes house before they could shut the door. Obama was taking off his clothes, so he was naked. His boy, I dunno if he was handing him the gear to stash or what. And I throw out my first attack and it's short (cuz I got one of those vendor handles on my steel spear haha.) Then, the fight happens. Basically they were just trollin the GY and I was like hey let's go kill... and nobody really followed cept this mage. Prol why the ogh ducked into the house was incase there was bow fire. It was that forty bowyer guy. But I'm telling you that this dude could not have pulled out a bow LOL. If he had done it while we were moving around, I would have speared him, lean veela v rep carp dmg, but would have been enough imo. In the house, I was behind the mage, some italian guy, starts w/ L? and I was just wrapping a bandaid while dude punished the guy in the house. IN A LITTLE TOOLSHED HE MADE ME SUFFER
Yeah, I came back to say first of all haha at dude saying all games have no rooted special attacks RIP at that. So if I find a vid of someone charging something in any game that means you're wrong?
I should not discuss things on the internet w/ people. Believe it or not, altho it is very frustrating for me when people don't seem to understand simple concepts... like 0 = rooted and NOT ROOTED = more or less infinity (impossible to define, vast difference), I'm trying to say where I'm coming from, not trying to be a know it all. Seems like dudes don't have the ability to close their eyes and play things out in their head. OR I personally believe your ability to play things out in your head is a bit simplified. Hoppity magi v arrow at enough range, they charge, hitscan you, get away again. You can't heal cuz you're not a mage. Actually everyone is a mage haha. MO1, almost all of the good players were or had a hybrid and that was with rooted casting. I personally think if you are like... I got muh bow, I got my regs, I got my melee wep... the game is bland and NOT LIKE MO.
But yeah, think of a wizard. Think of famous movie scenes of wizards. They don't run around casting magic haha, maybe they float up or something, but they aren't running. You imagine a wizard staying mostly in his mind while using magic. Allowing them more charge (complete vulnerable) time to execute stronger attacks is, again, balanced, imo, and makes the game more diverse. What happens is actually shortening the distance between a ranger and a mage is all. Oh, but in MO ranger = any foot fighter w/ 50 archery haha.
I also don't have a bias like I want THIS CLASS TO BE BEST, MY CLASS, right, like most people. I would like the game to be good. It's not. It won't be. Moving casting is not the only reason why, but it goes to show general lack of understanding of game mechanics. It was like woah... wat. Good thing magi are good in pve now w/ moving casting, so at least they fixed that. haha. :/ 0 reason to introduce moving casting unless they couldn't find a way to root elementalism haha. Which is prol true.
I'm not talking about counters. I'm talking about taking something that is COMPLETELY ROOTED and then it NOT being. Some people took that to heart with Necro, but diff spells OK, whatever. Every spell in the game? Yikes. To me, like I said, that was the point... well that and not being able to log in... where I realized it's just not gonna happen. It's over. - vince carter gif -
I still think Mana dudes are dumping money into the game on the low to get these changes. Haha, maybe not Mana specifically, but something like that is going down, cuz these changes don't make sense. Oh I forgot to mention magic reflect change last time.
Anyway, later, and still surprised at dude acting like he's never seen a rooted special attack. Maybe he doesn't know what I'm talking about...
You are missing the forest for the trees. The issue isn't casting while moving, the issue is that alvarins beat everyone else in speed. That's it. Even if the guy would get rooted while casting you would still lose that fight, it'd just take him more time to kite.
There's actually no balance in this game, just a series of FOMO builds that are currently OP before they nerf them into the ground later on.
You mean those where wizards obliterate entire armies with a flip of their finger instead of helplessly crying for a peel while being roflstomped by grunts with clubs? Those where mages can't even be approached by anything less than a balrog or something?
I like that. Let's make sure to ask Henrik at the next stream.
auugh stop quoting my shite haha.
2 points. 1: the issue is exacerbated/illuminated by alvs obv because they are faster. It's like watching a clip in slow motion to see what's going on... except it's showing the difference in speed.. % based = more difference. A skinny mage w/ moving casting is rurrr. Dumb. The idea of charging an attack (AoE for instance) is BALANCED and A STAPLE of games, esp to unleash really good spells. I guess you guys got dual mounts now w/ alt mounts rofl. FREEHORSES gettin ya I bet.
2. Tashka, I don't think you really wanna argue on merit w/ me. I know you're a mage. I know you were mad. I hope you're happy now! Peace.
2 points. 1: the issue is exacerbated/illuminated by alvs obv because they are faster. It's like watching a clip in slow motion to see what's going on... except it's showing the difference in speed.. % based = more difference. A skinny mage w/ moving casting is rurrr. Dumb. The idea of charging an attack (AoE for instance) is BALANCED and A STAPLE of games, esp to unleash really good spells. I guess you guys got dual mounts now w/ alt mounts rofl. FREEHORSES gettin ya I bet.
2. Tashka, I don't think you really wanna argue on merit w/ me. I know you're a mage. I know you were mad. I hope you're happy now! Peace.
No i just have zero issues with them. It's either a 150hp glass cannon or a 180+ hp stationary turret. There's like less than a dozen of mages in the entire game that aren't a burden to their group. Like seriously wtf.