Improve Damage for Mounted Charge attack parries

[Evelyn]

See title. Mounted charge can be parried for little to no damage, even when your target is naked with a sword. It's a bit silly that a 3.6kg weapon slammed into a stationary naked target by a maximum speed mount hits for 4 damage [Parry].

 

[Teknique]

Is that also true of blunt weapons or just pierce?

 

[Evelyn]

Is that also true of blunt weapons or just pierce?

I can't say I've tested mauls, but a heavy enough spear has Blunt damage anyway so it's probably true of those too although I imagine you'd hit somewhere around 15-20 maybe? Someone should do some tests.

 

[MolagAmur]

You might even argue that mounted charge shouldn't be able to be parried at all or by a shield only.

Ah yes! Lets make foot helpless against mounteds again.

 

[Rorry]

Ah yes! Lets make foot helpless against mounteds again.

This X1000.

 

[Evelyn]

Ah yes! Lets make foot helpless against mounteds again.

It's a topic of debate I suppose but more pointed on that subject is not giving mounts more stamina than they have now. But that's not what this thread is about.

 

[StreamerLord]

If you are going to do as the title of this post asks. Lets also increase the damage you incur when charging your horse full speed into a weapon strike.

 

[Evelyn]

If you are going to do as the title of this post asks. Lets also increase the damage you incur when charging your horse full speed into a weapon strike.

I'm all for that. The way it works from my experience is if they see you coming you should probably not charge. I would have way too much fun with spear stance skewering mounted melee c:

 

[MolagAmur]

I just remember very well in MO1 feeling helpless against mounts, breeding aside, since you would be killed even if you parried all their hits since you couldn't heal up fast enough. And you wouldn't dare try to damage trade with them for obvious reasons (you die). And pulling out a bow to try to kill their mounts (with breeding) meant you couldn't block so you took hits.

I understand breeding isn't in the game yet, but the change your asking for is a change to make mounted OP again in the future since its one of those changes that wouldn't get reverted. I just don't want things to repeat themselves because people don't look at how certain mechanics will effect things in the long run, even if it sounds like a good change for today.

So basically, being able to parry a mounted while on foot is one of the very few ways to survive long enough to get to a better position. You already have so many advantages as a mounted.

 

[Evelyn]

I just remember very well in MO1 feeling helpless against mounts, breeding aside, since you would be killed even if you parried all their hits since you couldn't heal up fast enough. And you wouldn't dare try to damage trade with them for obvious reasons (you die). And pulling out a bow to try to kill their mounts (with breeding) meant you couldn't block so you took hits.

I understand breeding isn't in the game yet, but the change your asking for is a change to make mounted OP again in the future since its one of those changes that wouldn't get reverted. I just don't want things to repeat themselves because people don't look at how certain mechanics will effect things in the long run, even if it sounds like a good change for today.

So basically, being able to parry a mounted while on foot is one of the very few ways to survive long enough to get to a better position. You already have so many advantages as a mounted.

I'd be more afraid of breeding making mounted archers more obnoxious tbh. Once aiming skills come back into the game MAs will resume being incredibly obnoxious to come across.

What this thread about however is it seeming a bit off to burn 60% mount stam on an all-or-nothing charge to be parried for 4-7 damage BY A NAKED which from that perspective seems kinda poor. I'm not going to be playing mounted combat so it's no skin off my back if the suggestion isn't popular and taken, just the way I see the risk vs reward in testing.

 

[Kaemik]

Auto-Generated MO1 Vet Response: "You're not talking about foot-melee. It's OP. Nerf it."

I think their intent is to make mounted melee a flanking only role because that is the only role it's actually useful if people can just parry your hits when a mounted charge is the most telegraphed attack that can possibly exist.

I WOULD say that it should have massive bleedthrough on every melee weapon except polearms, but seeing as how they made polearms meta against infantry... giving them any kind of anti-cav context as would make sense just makes them insanely OP. Maybe nerf a few particular polearms and give them the anti-cav bonuses. Who knows.

 

[Evelyn]

Auto-Generated MO1 Vet Response: "You're not talking about foot-melee. It's OP. Nerf it."

I think their intent is to make mounted melee a flanking only role because that is the only role it's actually useful if people can just parry your hits when a mounted charge is the most telegraphed attack that can possibly exist.

I WOULD say that it should have massive bleedthrough on every melee weapon except polearms, but seeing as how they made polearms meta against infantry... giving them any kind of anti-cav context as would make sense just makes them insanely OP. Maybe nerf a few particular polearms and give them the anti-cav bonuses. Who knows.

Or they could remove 360 parries, that would help too. If you see a mounted with a big ol' spear just run away from them to reduce their momentum bonus and parry middle. Maybe sidewind a little and they'll either miss entirely or you parry it for nothing. 100% agree on it being only good for memes or flanking.

 

[Teknique]

Auto-Generated MO1 Vet Response: "You're not talking about foot-melee. It's OP. Nerf it."

I think they're just worried about being two to three shot.

Because say what you will about the MO 1 foot vet crowd

but the MO 1 mounted crowd never displayed the honesty required to admit that something like this was outrageous.

You can watch the whole video if you want to see a buncha footies die

 

[Evelyn]

^ watching that like the thing I find the most worrisome is that the horse never even comes close to stamming out. Which isn't a problem now but I could see it being a problem if mounts get out of control themselves. But that ties into the bigger concern I share with just about everyone else of mounts having too much health/armor/stam.

 

[MolagAmur]

Auto-Generated MO1 Vet Response: "You're not talking about foot-melee. It's OP. Nerf it."

I think their intent is to make mounted melee a flanking only role because that is the only role it's actually useful if people can just parry your hits when a mounted charge is the most telegraphed attack that can possibly exist.

I WOULD say that it should have massive bleedthrough on every melee weapon except polearms, but seeing as how they made polearms meta against infantry... giving them any kind of anti-cav context as would make sense just makes them insanely OP. Maybe nerf a few particular polearms and give them the anti-cav bonuses. Who knows.

Take my opinion how you want, one day maybe you'll realize I'm not biased when it comes to balance and anyone who sat through nearly a decade of MO1 can understand what you're suggesting helped to make it mounted or nothing. It was a meme. You would literally get 4-shot through perfect blocks.

Not sure what is with all the hate with the MO1 vet crowd. A lot of "suggestions" for MO2 have already been tested for a long time in MO1. It was the true beta afterall...

but the MO 1 mounted crowd never displayed the honesty required to admit that something like this was outrageous.

Exactly. It is nice to have video proof of how trash the game was back then.

 

[Kaemik]

Yeah, 360 parries need to die. One thing I could say, light cav traditionally were just for scouting, flanking, and harassing. Making heavier horses (including their armor weight into that weight) more able to bypass parries either through additional bleedthrough and/or non-parryable trample damage would be good.

Mounted charges SHOULD 2-3 shot in almost all cases and even 1 shot in some.

The only problems I see with that video is:
1. Lack of Counters
2. Moving 10 feet from being fully stopped while turning isn't a charge. The movement physics there are horrible. Too quick to speed up, slow down, and turn. You should not be able to make sharp turns while moving any speed that gives a significant charge bonus.

If I run 10 foot on a horse while turning and you parry it, yeah it should be treated basically the same as if I were on foot.

If straight charge at full speed on a fully armored horse into anything but a wall of spears/polearms. Yeah. People should die. And you saw that in some of those kills he barrels into the back of some dude running away in a straight line. Those kills seem good. The mid-turn ones are a joke.

 

[MolagAmur]

Mounted charges SHOULD 2-3 shot in almost all cases and even 1 shot in some.

Sounds like some very fun, skilled, and interactive gameplay. I'm gonna see myself out of this thread lol

 

[Evelyn]

What in your opinion would be a reasonable amount of parry bleedthrough from a 4-speed mounted charge? I don't necessarily disagree with the responses so I'm curious what people would think a reasonable amount of damage through parry would be "right". I don't think that single digits on a naked is great, but obviously since SV won't be transparent about their plans for future content too much could be equally bad.

 

[Kaemik]

Sounds like some very fun, skilled, and interactive gameplay. I'm gonna see myself out of this thread lol

Absolutely. It's not about how fast you can flick a mouse around the screen but imagine the horse physics were even halfway realistic. That means it takes a minute to pick up speed, turning is slower at full speed, and making a major turn causes you to lose speed.

If the horse physics actually work, then you need to set up a charge pretty well or your enemy is just going to sidestep it.

Realistic horse physics entirely addresses your concern of not being able to get away from someone charging you with a lance btw if you're capable of the most basic of evasive techniques. But if I come barreling 50+ feet at someone in a straight line, full speed, and hit them dead on you think they should be able to parry it with a sword? Do less than a third of their healthbar?

What the hell is the point of even having mounted charge in the game then?

 

[Bicorps]

Mounted charges SHOULD 2-3 shot in almost all cases and even 1 shot in some.

Omfg what I just read ???