Immortal Online : Everyone is Wolverine

[ThaBadMan]

MO1 you'd take a good player over a geared out one any day. Not so much these days.

Difference in the first game was staggering from beginning to end.
Start of the game you would recruit 1 good player over 20 bad ones, later stage you took 20 bad guys over that one good guy seeing as 20 guys with pets is way better then one guy with no edge.
MO2 is basically end of MO1 with improved graphics, its literally a copy/paste. The literal opposite of what they sold us back in 08/09.

But hey I am just biased wanting to run around with my 5 guys and wreck the entire world of Myrland no matter their numbers with no losses like in the good old days.

Pretty much sums it up perfectly.

If any of you think being able to have endless chances in a game like this is fair? I have to ask if you should really be playing a full loot PVP game.

Like, is this a game made for babies or something? It certainly wasn't sold as that.

My view is this: If a player needs more chances to play good hes not a good solid player. If he manages with 1 chance and dont fuck up he is a good solid player.

Back in 09-10 we used to say MO was turning into Hello Kitty Online, now its a reality. Tons of healing, high defence armor, heat seeking pets, instakilla guards, safe zones, mounted fortresses, etc

 

[Jackdstripper]

Difference in the first game was staggering from beginning to end.
Start of the game you would recruit 1 good player over 20 bad ones, later stage you took 20 bad guys over that one good guy seeing as 20 guys with pets is way better then one guy with no edge.
MO2 is basically end of MO1 with improved graphics, its literally a copy/paste. The literal opposite of what they sold us back in 08/09.

But hey I am just biased wanting to run around with my 5 guys and wreck the entire world of Myrland no matter their numbers with no losses like in the good old days.


My view is this: If a player needs more chances to play good hes not a good solid player. If he manages with 1 chance and dont fuck up he is a good solid player.

Back in 09-10 we used to say MO was turning into Hello Kitty Online, now its a reality. Tons of healing, high defence armor, heat seeking pets, instakilla guards, safe zones, mounted fortresses, etc

Im sorry, is this an “elite” player complaining that its now too hard to kill unskilled players? Does all the healing demand too high a skill level from you?
It would seem to me that a truly skilled player would revel in the challenge of a higher difficulty, not complain that he cant easily own everyone.

Why doesnt SV cater to the elite players?
Because the highly skilled players are, and always have been, the few. Catering to the few is not a good business practice. SV needs more players not less. A more punishing and unreachably high skill level simply means less and less players will stick around.

Doesnt matter that you and a handful of other chads with 10k duelling hours will be having the time of your life, when nobody else is around.

And please stop with the MO1 boasting. MO1 had some of the worst de-sync and ping abusing mechanic in the history of gaming. The only strat was hyper aggression and who could swing the fastest to abuse ping delay. Of course TTK was low when blocking was basically impossible for anyone not living next to the server. Time to take off those rose tinted glasses and simply….get better. Its what the elites always say right? Just get good.

 

[Sally]

Im sorry, is this an “elite” player complaining that its now too hard to kill unskilled players? Does all the healing demand too high a skill level from you?
It would seem to me that a truly skilled player would revel in the challenge of a higher difficulty, not complain that he cant easily own everyone.

Why doesnt SV cater to the elite players?
Because the highly skilled players are, and always have been, the few. Catering to the few is not a good business practice. SV needs more players not less. A more punishing and unreachably high skill level simply means less and less players will stick around.

Doesnt matter that you and a handful of other chads with 10k duelling hours will be having the time of your life, when nobody else is around.

And please stop with the MO1 boasting. MO1 had some of the worst de-sync and ping abusing mechanic in the history of gaming. The only strat was hyper aggression and who could swing the fastest to abuse ping delay. Of course TTK was low when blocking was basically impossible for anyone not living next to the server. Time to take off those rose tinted glasses and simply….get better. Its what the elites always say right? Just get good.

I think this argument mistakes more healing for greater difficulty of play, which would be true if we couldn't also use self healing.

See, you could have a game where people die in a single hit, and that would not change the difficulty level, as we'd all be playing on the same footing.

Now, you could argue self healing adds a dimension that makes the game more complex, but again, i'd disagree because you'd still be making the same approach regardless of if the opponent tries to heal. Either you run away/defend, or you keep attacking them. The same decisions you'd make if they healed or did not heal.

 

[Jackdstripper]

@ Sally
Its his argument that more healing, more armor, more pets, more guards, etc make it so he cant go around with his few elite buddies and own everyone. Literally his words.

My argument is that these changes help skilled players even more than non skilled ones. A longer TTK simply makes skilled players even harder to kill. In the end the skilled player will win, whether it takes 30 seconds or 5 minutes.

And by the way i still see it happening all the time where 2 or 3 guys beat double or triple their numbers simply because they are vastly superior. But due to the TTK is definitely takes longer to secure kills, so even skilled players have to now work harder to achieve those feats.

Skill is many things but what you are referring to is complexity and diversity of playstyle i think.

 

[Teknique]

I guess. My argument is that any discussion of skill in mo2 is invalid due to how terrible the controls and inputs are

It’s like discussing who’s the best at drunken concussion gymnastics.

 

[ThaBadMan]

@ Sally
Its his argument that more healing, more armor, more pets, more guards, etc make it so he cant go around with his few elite buddies and own everyone. Literally his words.

My argument is that these changes help skilled players even more than non skilled ones. A longer TTK simply makes skilled players even harder to kill. In the end the skilled player will win, whether it takes 30 seconds or 5 minutes.

And by the way i still see it happening all the time where 2 or 3 guys beat double or triple their numbers simply because they are vastly superior. But due to the TTK is definitely takes longer to secure kills, so even skilled players have to now work harder to achieve those feats.

Skill is many things but what you are referring to is complexity and diversity of playstyle i think.

You must be new here, hmm you must be very new here....New, inexperienced, naive and quite the low IQ I see...
Let me ask you, who will benefit from more healing 5 guys or 50 ? Easily the 50.
Who benefits from survivability 5 guys or 50 ? Easily the 50.
Who benefits from armor being over valued 5 guys or 50 ? Easily the 50.
Who benefits from pets as in non player AI being overly good 5 guys or 50 ? Easily the 50.

I rest my case....peasant....

 

[ThaBadMan]

I guess. My argument is that any discussion of skill in mo2 is invalid due to how terrible the controls and inputs are

It’s like discussing who’s the best at drunken concussion gymnastics.

Yea I agree. Game now as is, is beyond repair. Sad but true.

 

[Jackdstripper]

You must be new here, hmm you must be very new here....New, inexperienced, naive and quite the low IQ I see...
Let me ask you, who will benefit from more healing 5 guys or 50 ? Easily the 50.
Who benefits from survivability 5 guys or 50 ? Easily the 50.
Who benefits from armor being over valued 5 guys or 50 ? Easily the 50.
Who benefits from pets as in non player AI being overly good 5 guys or 50 ? Easily the 50.

I rest my case....peasant....

Why do you always assume the 5 guys are the skilled ones and the 50 are the nubes? Skilled players can make large groups too. And they very often do.

Of course 50 players of the same skill level will win over 5. What kind of a question is that? Why should the game mechanic favour small groups? Because thats the group you like to roll with? How about you use that big brain of yours and stop bringing 5 guys to a 50 man fight?

You know full well that a skilled player can still take on multiple opponents and win. Your only argument is that you cant take on 10 by yourself? Thats your argument?

You may be good, but you are not a raid boss dude, sorry that the game doesnt facilitate that delusion.

 

[ElPerro]

@ Sally
Its his argument that more healing, more armor, more pets, more guards, etc make it so he cant go around with his few elite buddies and own everyone. Literally his words.

My argument is that these changes help skilled players even more than non skilled ones. A longer TTK simply makes skilled players even harder to kill. In the end the skilled player will win, whether it takes 30 seconds or 5 minutes.

And by the way i still see it happening all the time where 2 or 3 guys beat double or triple their numbers simply because they are vastly superior. But due to the TTK is definitely takes longer to secure kills, so even skilled players have to now work harder to achieve those feats.

Skill is many things but what you are referring to is complexity and diversity of playstyle i think.

The issue with longer TTK is the stam in game doesnt match it. You just dont have the stam to finish kills in 1vX most of the time, while the zerg group has more stam bars and can cycle players.

This thread whining about bandages is ridiculous tho, while we have oghs with pipes, buffed pot ability, blood kaua and tower shields.

 

[Jackdstripper]

The issue with longer TTK is the stam in game doesnt match it. You just dont have the stam to finish kills in 1vX most of the time, while the zerg group has more stam bars and can cycle players.

This thread whining about bandages is ridiculous tho, while we have oghs with pipes, buffed pot ability, blood kaua and tower shields.

They just buffed the stam regen for defensive play.

But why should a game be balanced around 1vs X?
What kind of balancing is that? Balancing should be done around same skills, same numbers.

Do you not understand that if you give the single guy more stam you are giving the 5 guys more stam too? So then you are back to the same problem. 1 vs X is always gonna be problematic.why should the game reward small groups over large ones? or single vs many? Why do you guys keep going with this demented argument?

 

[Emdash]

bandaids are the best healing mechanic I've ever seen in a comp game. Everything beyond that for self healing (other than magic) is a joke!

They changed bandaids to be slower, too, but it's just a general brokenness thing. It's not 'realistic,' but it's very balanced. You get a heal and if you get tagged your heal decreases, down to possibly almost nothing. It's very awesome. I know some people might not agree, but I fully support it.

HoT foot, Pots... pipes... not so much. Was just thinking about how MO sucks and came here and saw this thread.

Bandaids are right. They might be alil slow (prol were too fast in mo1,) but I don't get either side of the bandaid debate. If that was the main healing people had outside of magic, the game would be better off.

Speed, arrows, etc, all that is broken in your example, not bandaids.

 

[ThaBadMan]

Why do you always assume the 5 guys are the skilled ones and the 50 are the nubes? Skilled players can make large groups too. And they very often do.

Of course 50 players of the same skill level will win over 5. What kind of a question is that? Why should the game mechanic favour small groups? Because thats the group you like to roll with? How about you use that big brain of yours and stop bringing 5 guys to a 50 man fight?

You know full well that a skilled player can still take on multiple opponents and win. Your only argument is that you cant take on 10 by yourself? Thats your argument?

You may be good, but you are not a raid boss dude, sorry that the game doesnt facilitate that delusion.

Its easier to create 5 great players then it is to create 50 great players if skill is apart of the equation.

No large group is going to outperform a equally quality focused small group, simply because mass treaining is way worse then individual training.

Are you really as dumb as you seem or is that just what you decide to show through your posts ?
I have quit this trash game for a reason and literally up until the UE5 test I have not touched this game since.
I gave it 10 years to change its ways and get back to its original selling points and MO2 was the last shot I gave them. Literally everything in this game is copy/pasted from the worst aspects of the first game as If SV learned nothing by running the first game into the ground.

But yeah the UE5 test was enough to show me nothing has been done in the time since I quit, I got good gear and literally performed as if I was still playing it daily. That is how easy skill wise this game has become.
Active top guild players not any better then a washed up veteran player given equal gear.

That is my only point here, this game sold out on itself so hard the game has no competitive aspect left, proven by the fact that you dont need to play the game to remain a good player.

Funny you say that in your last sentence. GM made players into raid bosses that one shot with a hit, lets just say said raid bosses died in seconds every time. The game is so gear and numbers based that not even a HIGHLY overpowered raid boss player can fight the numbers.

Current game needs to win= high end metal suit, high end metal weapon, large guild to follow your every step and if in troubble back pedal block while getting heals and sticking your pet on attackers. Super fun....

Sad to say but players like you are the main problem this game has...

Also learn to read before fantasizing your own reality of what I wrote. Its like you are talking to yourself and deluding yourself into thinking I wrote what you made up in your head. You might want to try a psychiatrist for that issue...

 

[Jackdstripper]

Its easier to create 5 great players then it is to create 50 great players if skill is apart of the equation.

No large group is going to outperform a equally quality focused small group, simply because mass treaining is way worse then individual training.

Are you really as dumb as you seem or is that just what you decide to show through your posts ?
I have quit this trash game for a reason and literally up until the UE5 test I have not touched this game since.
I gave it 10 years to change its ways and get back to its original selling points and MO2 was the last shot I gave them. Literally everything in this game is copy/pasted from the worst aspects of the first game as If SV learned nothing by running the first game into the ground.

But yeah the UE5 test was enough to show me nothing has been done in the time since I quit, I got good gear and literally performed as if I was still playing it daily. That is how easy skill wise this game has become.
Active top guild players not any better then a washed up veteran player given equal gear.

That is my only point here, this game sold out on itself so hard the game has no competitive aspect left, proven by the fact that you dont need to play the game to remain a good player.

Funny you say that in your last sentence. GM made players into raid bosses that one shot with a hit, lets just say said raid bosses died in seconds every time. The game is so gear and numbers based that not even a HIGHLY overpowered raid boss player can fight the numbers.

Current game needs to win= high end metal suit, high end metal weapon, large guild to follow your every step and if in troubble back pedal block while getting heals and sticking your pet on attackers. Super fun....

Sad to say but players like you are the main problem this game has...

Also learn to read before fantasizing your own reality of what I wrote. Its like you are talking to yourself and deluding yourself into thinking I wrote what you made up in your head. You might want to try a psychiatrist for that issue...

Well good riddance then. There a lot more players like me to replace the few like you. The game will thrive without you and the few elitist that believe they should be able to take 50 people with their 4 friends.

Your only point is that you like to play in small group( because its easier for you) and demand that the game facilitates your preferred playstyle to the point that you can take on 10 times your number…..its a ridiculous point. You can throw around all the insults you want it doesnt change the fact. Nothing else I can say about it.

Go play your balanced 1 vs 10 game. Wherever you can find it.

 

[Sally]

The issue with longer TTK is the stam in game doesnt match it. You just dont have the stam to finish kills in 1vX most of the time, while the zerg group has more stam bars and can cycle players.

This thread whining about bandages is ridiculous tho, while we have oghs with pipes, buffed pot ability, blood kaua and tower shields.

Ridiculous? All self-heals, aside from healing spells, are broken.

Bandages are by far the most common i see used, hence why that was my focus. Also, your argument doesn't hold up.

"This stuff is worse so bandages are fine".

No. Self healing in general is broken and boring. Nobody should be able to self heal through someone's dps without magic and a severe limitation.

You're so used to more broken stuff, you overlook the most commonly used self heal. The whole self healing thing in general is the problem, it isn't just bandages. Sure, there is worse stuff, but that doesn't make bandages okay as they are.

 

[ElPerro]

They just buffed the stam regen for defensive play.

But why should a game be balanced around 1vs X?
What kind of balancing is that? Balancing should be done around same skills, same numbers.

Do you not understand that if you give the single guy more stam you are giving the 5 guys more stam too? So then you are back to the same problem. 1 vs X is always gonna be problematic.why should the game reward small groups over large ones? or single vs many? Why do you guys keep going with this demented argument?

The stam on parries was a very needed change and helps alot. Still too little too late

I dont think the game should be balanced around equal numbers, this isnt an arena match. Most of the time one side will outnumber the other by alot, and they already have the numbers advantage so if combat is reduced to who recruits more then its boring for both sides. There has to be a way to put zergs in check or they will eventually ran everyone off the server, especially if theres TC in the game.

Its not the same problem if that guy is mechanically better so he can be more efficient with the stam hes given. It doesnt matter if your the best player in the world if that yellow bar goes to 0, but noobs will still be noobs with a full stam bar.

 

[Sally]

bandaids are the best healing mechanic I've ever seen in a comp game. Everything beyond that for self healing (other than magic) is a joke!

They changed bandaids to be slower, too, but it's just a general brokenness thing. It's not 'realistic,' but it's very balanced. You get a heal and if you get tagged your heal decreases, down to possibly almost nothing. It's very awesome. I know some people might not agree, but I fully support it.

HoT foot, Pots... pipes... not so much. Was just thinking about how MO sucks and came here and saw this thread.

Bandaids are right. They might be alil slow (prol were too fast in mo1,) but I don't get either side of the bandaid debate. If that was the main healing people had outside of magic, the game would be better off.

Speed, arrows, etc, all that is broken in your example, not bandaids.

Again, with the last post of a similar argument, this feels like you're willing to accept bandages as they are because the other healing items are so overblown.

It is like a salesman who tries to overprice whatever he is selling so that you'll accept a price over the worth of what it is you're buying. That is people with bandages.

Bandages are not okay, even by comparison to worse things. Self healing needs a serious nerf across the board, aside from magic healing.

 

[ElPerro]

Ridiculous? All self-heals, aside from healing spells, are broken.

Bandages are by far the most common i see used, hence why that was my focus. Also, your argument doesn't hold up.

"This stuff is worse so bandages are fine".

No. Self healing in general is broken and boring. Nobody should be able to self heal through someone's dps without magic and a severe limitation.

You're so used to more broken stuff, you overlook the most commonly used self heal. The whole self healing thing in general is the problem, it isn't just bandages. Sure, there is worse stuff, but that doesn't make bandages okay as they are.

Maybe you would have a case if the game was only melee. Yeah its gonna be so fun playing footie getting mage banged from far or shot from arrows with 0 self heal.

 

[ElPerro]

Again, with the last post of a similar argument, this feels like you're willing to accept bandages as they are because the other healing items are so overblown.

It is like a salesman who tries to overprice whatever he is selling so that you'll accept a price over the worth of what it is you're buying. That is people with bandages.

Bandages are not okay, even by comparison to worse things. Self healing needs a serious nerf across the board, aside from magic healing.

Thats just gonna force everyone to go hybrid for heals, dumb asf

 

[Jackdstripper]

The stam on parries was a very needed change and helps alot. Still too little too late

I dont think the game should be balanced around equal numbers, this isnt an arena match. Most of the time one side will outnumber the other by alot, and they already have the numbers advantage so if combat is reduced to who recruits more then its boring for both sides. There has to be a way to put zergs in check or they will eventually ran everyone off the server, especially if theres TC in the game.

Its not the same problem if that guy is mechanically better so he can be more efficient with the stam hes given. It doesnt matter if your the best player in the world if that yellow bar goes to 0, but noobs will still be noobs with a full stam bar.

At this point you are asking for anti-zerg mechanic. In an open world mmo that highly encourage people to group up….It seems very artificial and counter intuitive. Game forces you into grouping up….but then penalizes you for getting too many? And who is to decide what the perfect group size is? 3? 5? 10? 20? 50?
And what quantifies as a zerg? Twice the numbers? 3 times? 5 times?
And how close do groups need to be to be considered 1 zerg as opposed to multiple groups?

The issues multiply the more you explore an anti-zerg mechanic. You have to remember that zergs means a lot of people. Why should a lot of people be penalized for working together, so that the few can have a funner gameplay?
How does the fun of the few, supersede the fun of the many? After all there is nothing stopping the few from becoming the many. It is simply a choice in preference.

 

[ThaBadMan]

Well good riddance then. There a lot more players like me to replace the few like you. The game will thrive without you and the few elitist that believe they should be able to take 50 people with their 4 friends.

Your only point is that you like to play in small group( because its easier for you) and demand that the game facilitates your preferred playstyle to the point that you can take on 10 times your number…..its a ridiculous point. You can throw around all the insults you want it doesnt change the fact. Nothing else I can say about it.

Go play your balanced 1 vs 10 game. Wherever you can find it.

If only you knew....

When things where like I wanted, this game had thousands of active players. The game world was filled with players. You met other groups and solo and small groups every 2 minutes moving about. Every spawn was full of farmers, every tree close to town was filled up with noobs, every stone node had a miner.

But what makes you so fragile that you hang on to the 5v50 as if I stated it as law ? I stated that since that is the odds we did beat against the top Alliances of the server.

This game had 20k pre orders from a trailer and a pdf released with promises on the game, once those promises was broken this game has bled ever since.

At this point you are asking for anti-zerg mechanic. In an open world mmo that highly encourage people to group up….It seems very artificial and counter intuitive. Game forces you into grouping up….but then penalizes you for getting too many? And who is to decide what the perfect group size is? 3? 5? 10? 20? 50?
And what quantifies as a zerg? Twice the numbers? 3 times? 5 times?
And how close do groups need to be to be considered 1 zerg as opposed to multiple groups?

The issues multiply the more you explore an anti-zerg mechanic. You have to remember that zergs means a lot of people. Why should a lot of people be penalized for working together, so that the few can have a funner gameplay?
How does the fun of the few, supersede the fun of the many? After all there is nothing stopping the few from becoming the many. It is simply a choice in preference.

Hes asking for anti zerg mechanics due to the fact this game went away from focusing on the individual and turned to trying to bring in groups by forcing group play mechanics.

Skill was substituted with gear importance, AI and a shitload of limitations on the individual so as to make groups safer.

Believe it or not but when skill was in the focus of balance around combat solo and small group activities where high. You had players reknowned for running around solo slaying farmers around towns. Now good luck as a solo player doing anything in this game.

Zerg is simply a group using numbers, gear and AI to win over better players in lower numbers. Instead of getting better they turn to easy mechanics to trump skill gained through training.

You dont penalize groups to make individuals better, you make the game harder for everyone so that the few who puts in the time and effort to Get Good™ will rise above the rest to fix the problem with zergs.

Are we really elitist ego filled players for wanting a hard game so that if you again put in time and effort will rise to become a legend amongst the casuals.
I would say players who want the game to limit what the individual can achieve to be peasant ego filled pretend elitists as they are the ones putting ego in the way to ruin the game for all others, just because they dont want to put in time and effort to perform good in a game.

Make the individual able to achieve a high skill ceiling with a hardto climb skill ladder and the rest will sort itself. Solo players, small, medium and big groups will find their places, friend groups running around would reemerge and biggest of all active zergs would for the most part disappear.
Why you ask.
Well because being a zerg shows a mentality of the ego, players wanting the easy cruise. When that ego gets crushed by a much smaller force time and time again, they will either quit to a easier game or split from what they consider to be the weakest link forming new groups. Seen both of those happen too many times to count.

The adrenaline for both sides when a small group demolishes a large group is enough to hook you as a player, whatever end of the fight you partake in. Few to no games are like MO used to be there.
I mean even now 10 years later when old MO players see my name, they still remember those few Myrmidons running through their 20 man group with such speed, precision and little to no flaws in our coordination slaughtering them one by one left and right and center. And they loved every moment of it.

Such gameplay leaves a distinct memory found in few games ever made. Fewer if any to stand the test of time, literally no game comes to mind.