Human Racial Balance - Con is King?

[Xronim]

Avoiding pitfall options during character creation will go a long way for many players who dont want to be shoehorned into a character that they don't want to be. I have brought players into mortal 1 who really wanted to be particular races for their builds but since half of the races were so undertuned compared to Alvarin and Thursars they got annoyed to the point where they uninstalled just because they couldnt be a decent Kallard or Blainn fighter.

I thought of maybe making subraces in all 4 clades have a pretty flat baseline for statcaps that get modified less than the current stat spreads of the races.
An example could be humans having 100 baseline caps and each subrace adding extra stats to it depending on your ancestry picks like Kallard adding maybe 10 max str and 8 con while Khurites add 10 dex and 4 str, mixing them can even it out more if you wanted a Tindremene fighter because you like how they look over the others.

Also I remember asking Henrik about size damage bonus being based on your points into size itself so that Blainn could get 30% dmg bonus like Thursars, He did say it would be like that but after the stat update it is not like that and its mo1 based where its natural height advantage again.

 

[Kaemik]

I particularly like things like Khurites being pretty underwhelming MAs. Like if any race is going to be OP as any build, can we get the Monglians to be the OP MA build? Lol.

 

[Necromantic]

Making more varied sub-clades was also something I thought about but it wouldn't work. It would turn them all pretty generic and for the most part it would also completely ignoring size, which is one of the big problem "attributes" right now and can't be altered as much with some clades. Damage bonus is the least of my problems with the current state.
I agree though that a bit more variability in clades would be more interesting, The races of Oghmir and Alvarin are basically the same internally with just a few points different in some things. But with so little options making them more different would only end up with too big a separation.

 

[Kaemik]

The "clade bonuses" are actually "race bonuses" as they are shared by all clades of the same race. If they want clades to have some kind of distinct feel, they could start there.

I'd start with dex giving a bonus to all forms of damage done from mounts as a Khurite. Or maybe give them a creature control bonus if they have a horse / not make their first horse count against herding penalty as they're frequently depicted with pets and horses. Khurites have good dex while that's ironically one of the best dump stats for a mounted build especially post speed-normalization. For a race born to the saddle, they sure don't seem that great for mounted builds.

 

[Necromantic]

You actually got that wrong, it's clade bonuses because the whole family of races is called the clade, below it are the races in the clade.

 

[Kaemik]

You actually got that wrong, it's clade bonuses because the whole family of races is called the clade, below it are the races in the clade.

Ah either way. I think making the bonuses slightly different between say, a Kallard and Khurite, would definitely give them more distinct feels.

 

[Sirsancho]

Tindremere need changes, need More stats

 

[Speznat]

Fair enough. I'm also glad to see Kallards on the battlefield. However, at this point, mixing anything into Kallard makes them inferior. Highest Health, Stamina, Damage Bonus, Height, Constitution, and Strength. Might be a Swedish intern's personal fantasy, but doesn't make for a fun and balanced game design.

Their constitution is way out of line as Con is the New King. They have a higher constitution cap than any other attribute cap for any attribute in the human clade, and the attribute pool to actually spend them all. Again, the attribute pools were assigned when Dexterity was dominant.

Kallards can remain viable against the other clades (Thursar, Alvarin, Oghmir) even if other humans get a boost. Even if Bandaging and resting were boosted 50% with int or psyche.

Let's see if we can get Sidoian and Khurite competitive physically. Dexterity, Strength, Int, and Psyche need to be useful to everyone. Attribute point distribution needs to be reworked.



You could save me an afternoon by sharing the stamina equation.

the thusar kallard is balacned. look at the attr points youre gimped if you go 216 height and you have also less dmg bonus if you go 188 size that you need if you wanna fill all your points. So yeah compared to the tank Oghmir the 188size is not better. the only thing that makes the thusar/kallard good is the 216 and dmg bonus and speed is not high.

the thing is if you also look at the glade gifts:

Oghmir: Fat Mage or Mounted | Tank
Thusar Kallard: Foot Fight | Damage Dealer
Alvarin best Archer foot or mounted | Foot Mage
Human: not the best in everything but perfect for mixed builds | everything okay but nothing perfect.

 

[Kaemik]

I definitely wouldn't classify an Ohgmir fat-mage as a tank. It's a spell cannon that can take a couple-hits.

 

[Necromantic]

Please make weight and size combination - not just armor weight - determine what mounts you can ride and you need extra strong ones to even be able to not be thrown off with too much.

 

[Eldrath]

Please make weight and size combination - not just armor weight - determine what mounts you can ride and you need extra strong ones to even be able to not be thrown off with too much.

Hopefully this happens this time around. Henrik stated that the lack of wagons was the reason for mounts being able to carry heavy goods.

I certainly would want more character diversity and a proper mount system would help with that.

 

[Kallardian Prince]

Max thursar may have penalties on some mounts yes

It can potentially mean something, it could potentially mean nothing. We will have to wait for early next months to find out.

 

[a.out]

I'm actually positively surprised on how many people are jumping on this. As I've been an advocate for these things for a long long time.

Same. Diminishing returns were suggested by quite a few in the past actually. I'd also like to see more "cross role" use for attributes. Int could give a bonus to the skill point pool for example. Psy with its magic resistance would probably already be fine with diminishing returns. Strength could play a bigger role for mages when it comes to equipment.

 

[Necromantic]

I'm not a fan of diminishing returns to be honest. You can't really balance non-linear systems that way and while it helps even out the differences it is inherently biased against some things more than others. Just like in the reverse at some point they made Int more powerful the higher it was. It's just a workaround and not good design in my opinion. You are not balancing a system, you are just making numbers fit a pre-conceived notion of how things may be better.

 

[Kaemik]

Same. Diminishing returns were suggested by quite a few in the past actually. I'd also like to see more "cross role" use for attributes. Int could give a bonus to the skill point pool for example. Psy with its magic resistance would probably already be fine with diminishing returns. Strength could play a bigger role for mages when it comes to equipment.

Yeah that's a huge way to balance strength. I'd be tempted to entirely drop all effect con has an armor weight and move it to strength. Health and stam are universally useful stats for every build except stam for a fat mage, and fat mages still love their con for health purposes. Con is one of the stats least in danger of being labeled as "useless" for any build. Strength is great for a lot of builds but also the safest dump stat for any build that doesn't have melee and/or archery in it.

I actually think int is in the worst position as a stat of value to non-mage builds. It really offers nothing if you don't cast spells. I think tying it to bandage int as some have suggested would help a lot. I might also tie it to weakspot chance on physical attacks. (Or backhit bonus or something if they decide to make weakspots a bit less RNG)

Dex is also a huge one. It's damn near essential for foot builds but with the buff on low dex move speed, it's less useful than ever to dedicated mounted builds. This is especially ironic when you consider things like Khurites (which logically and per lore should be a top-tier race for mounted builds) have good dex. This could potentially be addressed by making dex give faster turn speeds and dismount resistance when mounted. I also think given the general nerfs it's undergone, it's not a bad time to think about dex buffing ranged and melee attack speed / decreasing spell cast timers.

 

[Runaljod]

i'd like to check back in on this discussion after magic patch.

 

[ElPerro]

And Veelas just got speed nerfed, might as well make every race a skin now

 

[Eldrath]

And Veelas just got speed nerfed, might as well make every race a skin now

Yeah, it´s a shitshow.

 

[Necromantic]

At least they are showing the max attribute points for each race now as of the last few patches, meaning the advantage for bigger races is even more obvious.

 

[Godkin Veratas]

Con is still King.

Kallard is imbalanced. Adding MAXIMUM attribute points to all the other races won’t change that.

Figure it out SV. It’s really not that hard.

One race can’t have the highest hp, con, stam, strength, damage bonus, and height.

Its like the super mounts again. They are so bad at balance. I thought it was an engine limitation. Nope, it’s becoming comical.