As the system is currently people is just getting free murdercounts since you don´t see who is red, who is blue or who is grey. Also , mages supporting the murderers don´t even become criminals... They need to change it.
Huge Feedback about the flagging System and how to improve it.
- Thread starter Anabolic Man
- Start date
Obviously you don't see who is red gray and blue, the game aims for realism and in real life there isn't a floating sign above peoples head, it is fairly easy to detect though, for gray and red players will avoid towns. I would avoid people out of town at least until you have good armor.
The reputation system needs to be adjusted badly, also. It's stupid that I could for example go to Bakti and attack someone at the crusher, run away until crimflag wears off, then get killed on purpose and res at their blue priest and give them rep loss in their own city for killing me for being the invader. No rep loss or murder counts for me, rep loss and murder counts for them.
I was thinking if we could have a local flagging system: you rpk enough within a certain area (lets say around Tindrem) and you get a local, visible red flag (for immersion reasons one could say you are a well known criminal within that area). But, if you move to some other town where you are not yet a well known criminal, your flag becomes blue again.
As it is currently the invisible flag seems to favor griefers greatly. Of course one could say that you should memorize all the criminals by name, but that sounds like a terrible mechanic.
As it is currently the invisible flag seems to favor griefers greatly. Of course one could say that you should memorize all the criminals by name, but that sounds like a terrible mechanic.
This would fix it.
7.-Lage Groupfights should not turn the PVP Players red. If two Guilds are fighting each other, the game need to notice that this is a huge Guild vs Guild fight.
Murdercounts should be turned off during that time, if the game recognize that. Look at Point 1
Blue Players attacking the grey player should not only get gray for him, but for his whole guild. Not criminal that the guards attack them but grey.
This is much better as if all Guilds with a specific ammount of Members are in War with each other.
It would also fix other problems, like the blue jumping on a excidently turned grey Player.
A lot of time randoms tried to defend the town against red Players. Sometimes a Player that is fighting against the reds turned exidently grey, by hitting someone excidently with his sword and all of the defenders jump on him, to loot him. TRhis should not happen.
If you invite new Players to a guild and they exidently hit a blue player in the grayeyard, you could defend your Guild member, if the blue Players would not only turn grey for the grey Player they attacking, but for his whole Guild.
A blue Player shoudl think twice, before attacking a grey Player, if his guild is nearby.
This would require that we can´t hide out Guild tags, which i never liked, that we are able to do that.
Last edited:
While I agree there needs to be a better flagging systems in place to support guilds content and warring (which obviously there will be), I feel we still need be careful not to make the system any more convoluted than it already is. It needs to be logical to follow and easy to grasp, in that you know that doing offensive actions such as hitting someone runs the risk of consequences. Furthermore, you need to remember that not all blues are going to be "in on" your GvG war and naturally when they see a fight starting, will do like humans do and jump in on the fun. There's no easy way to control this and naturally it goes against the free open world full loot pvp principles SV is following.
Also a blue player turning grey for an entire guild seems like an easy system to be gamed/abused so I doubt that would go down well. If you accidentally hit a blue player, you need to accept the consequences and surely if your guild is nearby, you can just run to your guild mates side anyway. If your guild wants to protect you and allow your "crime" to go unpunished (and I get it, you might have hilt hit them but that's something you can avoid) then they will need to PK the blue player. Finally, forcing blues to turn grey for the person that hit them and their guildies is just ripe for abuse and besides, blues should always get the better end of the stick when it comes to PK/PvP (because they're clearly not actively instigating PvP enough to go red).
It would not be overcomplicated if the blue Player would get the massage, you can now be attacked from the whole guild ... if you attack a grey player, that have a guild tag.
I could only see this making more sense if it was against a red player which local greys both of them and maybe their guild (still not a fan of automatically enabling guilds to just zerg an individual like this) but a grey? Greying requires the player that goes grey to instigate the fight/crime etc. so I don't see how it would be fair that blues who react in self defense suddenly get greyed to the individual and potentially a zerg of guild members. As I said, seems like an easy system to game.
a) Guild member A greys against a Blue
b) Blue defends and fights back
c) Blue gets instantly greyed to member A and member B, C, D and E
d) Blue gets merced and because they are now grey, can't report a murder or have their loot protected by blue status.
What is this really protecting against? Greys are already able to fight back as they're already criminals so there's nothing lost from continuing to fight. If you kill a blue, there needs to be repercussions and this approach doesn't solve any of the drawbacks of the current implementation imo. Reds is a different story entirely tho and local grey should be a thing when fighting reds who "haven't" instigated a fight or performed crime.
There should be a difference if a blue Player attack a another blue player and turn criminal and the damaged Player fight back in self defence, and between a blue player that is attacking a gray that not dealt damage to him, if this is possible to do. Only in the second case he should get grey for his whole Guild. We need to be able to defend a town without turning all red. We need to be able to make PVP without turning red.
Maybe this is not the best solution, but a thousand times better than now, becuase it would prevent that ever PVP player would turn red after a huge Battle, which would result in a Kill on sight game as Mortal Onlien 1 was. The Player still can fight back, but can´t give Murdercounts and the Guild would anyways help their Member, no matter if they turn red, becuase this would only cause beef.
This would also prevent red Grifer Guilds having a blue Character on the frontline, if they atatck a town. They hope that Players defending the town might attack him and get jumped from behind from the Guards. Grifers won´t stop till all defenders of a town turn red and this would be the worst case scenario. Much worse as if a a guy acted in self defence can´t give a murdercount, in the case, that SV can´t code it so, that the system will recognize, if a Player acted in self defence or just randomly attacked a gray player, that not dealth damage to him.
Sv have changed their Vision. The regional murder counts should lead to a situation, that a majority of players from one region sticking together, defending the city and their Land against foreign attackers from other kingdoms, or forming groups to go on a crusade in another kingdom.
If the Punishment for red Players is too low, or if all players would turn red after a huge Fight, then this won´t happen, and we have this kill everybody on sight Situation again.
I like if red Players can enter a town, use the craftinmg Tables and that their Murder Status is hidden, but the current system not punish them enough, to make the regional Murdercount System work as intended.
If you have a better suggestion or solution plz mention it here in this thread. I think it should be made like i recommended it, till someone invent ot suggest a better mechanic, becuase it would be 1000 times better as the system right now, that would lead to a worst case scenario.
The flagging system really need the Devs and the community do some brainstorming. As long as we don´t have a good flagging System i consider this game being an Alpha. This is one of the most important key features. A mechnaic that can´t be copied over from MO1, becuase the flagging system did not worked out well.
Last edited:
I see where you're coming from with regards to the extra intricacies that come with the guild v guild content you're referring to. The reservations I have right now with coming up with a solution to these problems is that we simply don't have these systems in place to properly be able to speculate on them. My thoughts regarding the current Murder/Criminal tweaks are as follows as per (https://www.mortalonline2.com/forums/threads/reputation-system-needs-serious-rework.1964/):
SEE SPOILER
The murder/rep system definitely needs some work.
My thoughts are (and I've mentioned this in another post) is that Murdercount should only apply when:
This reputation system is actually not a bad mechanic per se given that it should encourage players not to PK blue players in your "home" region (e.g the region that you're "mostly" playing out of) and instead target players in other regions of the game. This means travelling out of your region and PKing (losing rep with places you don't care about losing rep with) or otherwise, not giving a shit and living out of lawless towns. Furthermore, Rep in your main town/city should naturally increase as they add more ways to gain reputation with as currently its only risars and negative rep players of that region. Finally, all reputation should passively increase over time if below 5 as this makes sense that the "people" of these regions forget about your "deeds".
My thoughts are (and I've mentioned this in another post) is that Murdercount should only apply when:
- a player finishes off another player in mercy mode.
- a player has put the other player into mercy mode, and they then die from any source of dmg (e.g animal).
- a player has inflicted damage of between 5%-100% of your max HP (so handle hits are negated) - the more damage you deal to them the longer the duration for the MC to clear e.g exponentially:
- 5% = 2 mins (prevents handle hits)
- 10% = 4 mins
- 20% = 8 mins
- 40% = 16 mins
- 80%+ = 32 mins
- Murdercount timer should also not refresh on a new MC but should remain as it is in terms of it requires game time to count down. This is good as it prevents people just logging off characters for periods of time if they multi account.
- Horses/pets should by default share all eligibility of crime/murder as if you were hitting the player that owns it. Likewise pets should flag the owner for the same when attacking.
- Criminal Flag/Murder Eligibility flag should also share with:
- a) players that heals you
- b) players that complete (finalize and finish) a trade with you
- Reds (murderers) should be able to fight back in defense if attacked in town without guard repercussion - but only if hit first by the other player(s). Local grey in this respect also needs to be a thing so that there is a risk the attacking player still loses their gear if they should die to the player who defends.
- Finally, when you die to another player as a blue (non-murderer), the server needs to evaluate the closest blue priest to your position and should you then death run across the map to another region, it should then remember which priest you died at - removing reputation from the murderers in that region.
- EDIT: Murderers should be able to res in a blue GY so long as their reputation is positive.
This reputation system is actually not a bad mechanic per se given that it should encourage players not to PK blue players in your "home" region (e.g the region that you're "mostly" playing out of) and instead target players in other regions of the game. This means travelling out of your region and PKing (losing rep with places you don't care about losing rep with) or otherwise, not giving a shit and living out of lawless towns. Furthermore, Rep in your main town/city should naturally increase as they add more ways to gain reputation with as currently its only risars and negative rep players of that region. Finally, all reputation should passively increase over time if below 5 as this makes sense that the "people" of these regions forget about your "deeds".
Problem 1
Game does not recognize huge Teamfights. The loosing teams is giving Murdercounts to the winning team. Everyone turn red after a huge Battle
Possible Solution 1. If more then 10 people are involved in a fight noone should be able to give a Murdercount. The game would need to recognize if there was a Guild vs Guild fight.
Solution 2. If a red Player in your Guild is fighting together with blue Players from his Guild, non of the Blue Players should be able to give a Murdercount
Problem 2
Blue Blocking/Blue Jumping
A group is defending a town and someone of the defenders is making a mistake and excidently hit a blue Defender, and the blue Players which he wanted to help jump on him.
"the can´t perform illegal actions option" does not work, becuase players running arround in town hitting all Players and hope to find a red Player this way, which is immersion breaking. If new Players hang arround at the graveyard and one of them excidently hit a a blue Player, which will fight back, can´t be damaged from the Friends of the grey Player, that excidently hit the blue Player.
This is a bad solution
Solution 1. A blue Player that is attacking a grey Player, should turn himself Gray for his opponents whole Guild.
Problem 3
Grifers are attacking a town and mix their team with blue Players, that they put on the frontline. If one of the Defenders attack this blue Player, they all get a Murdercount and get jumped from behind from the Guards.
"Hiding the Grey Status does not work."
"If a red Player in your Guild is fighting together with blue Players from his Guild, non of the Blue Players should be able to give a Murdercount" or all Guildmembers shoudl turn grey, becuase they have a red player in their Group and this is a criminal Action. They are defending a Criminal.
Problem 4
Anti RPK Defenders of a town will all turn red over time.
Solution 1
Maybe the owners of a town should not be able to loose as much Reputation , that the guards will kill them on sight, even if they are red, and the Prists in town could resurrect them. So they can do their Job and defend the Town, if they captured it using the terretory controll system ?
Game does not recognize huge Teamfights. The loosing teams is giving Murdercounts to the winning team. Everyone turn red after a huge Battle
Possible Solution 1. If more then 10 people are involved in a fight noone should be able to give a Murdercount. The game would need to recognize if there was a Guild vs Guild fight.
Solution 2. If a red Player in your Guild is fighting together with blue Players from his Guild, non of the Blue Players should be able to give a Murdercount
Problem 2
Blue Blocking/Blue Jumping
A group is defending a town and someone of the defenders is making a mistake and excidently hit a blue Defender, and the blue Players which he wanted to help jump on him.
"the can´t perform illegal actions option" does not work, becuase players running arround in town hitting all Players and hope to find a red Player this way, which is immersion breaking. If new Players hang arround at the graveyard and one of them excidently hit a a blue Player, which will fight back, can´t be damaged from the Friends of the grey Player, that excidently hit the blue Player.
This is a bad solution
Solution 1. A blue Player that is attacking a grey Player, should turn himself Gray for his opponents whole Guild.
Problem 3
Grifers are attacking a town and mix their team with blue Players, that they put on the frontline. If one of the Defenders attack this blue Player, they all get a Murdercount and get jumped from behind from the Guards.
"Hiding the Grey Status does not work."
"If a red Player in your Guild is fighting together with blue Players from his Guild, non of the Blue Players should be able to give a Murdercount" or all Guildmembers shoudl turn grey, becuase they have a red player in their Group and this is a criminal Action. They are defending a Criminal.
Problem 4
Anti RPK Defenders of a town will all turn red over time.
Solution 1
Maybe the owners of a town should not be able to loose as much Reputation , that the guards will kill them on sight, even if they are red, and the Prists in town could resurrect them. So they can do their Job and defend the Town, if they captured it using the terretory controll system ?
Last edited:
Everyone turned red after the stesstest fight. I can´t play becuase of the "you can´t perform illegal actions option! Blue hit all players in town, till they find a red. You can´t fight back without the guards attacking you, becuase the attackers not get flagged grey for you. Only option is to run out of town, but not, if everywhere are guards. Even the graveyard is full of guards. Same Problem are the Dicks of Meduli. Even at the tower are guards. Guards are worse then the Grifers. They steel the loot and blueblock you at the graveyard. Tindrem graveyard is empty full of guards. Same with Meduli Graveyard.
This need a Quickfix, becuase this is a gamebreaking bug !
Elite Guards made the situation even worse. Hitting you for 140 if you want to fight back.
This need a Quickfix, becuase this is a gamebreaking bug !
Elite Guards made the situation even worse. Hitting you for 140 if you want to fight back.
Last edited:
The flagging System should be the highest priority. Even before the loose skillpoints bug.
mortalonline2.com
Huge Feedback about the flagging System and how to improve it.
First Problem is the following. If you defend your Town you will get a murderer at some point. 1.-A guild that capture a town, or protect it, should not get murdercounts for killing a blue player, if one of their Guildmembers in close range is criminal during that time. But why ? We got...
mortalonline2.com
Why even change it ? The old system wasn’t perfect but it worked. Reds found a way to play. Blues knew who to stay clear of. Leave it to SV to change shit that isn’t broken, and break shit they don’t even change.
They really need to remove murdercounts and make the flagging system truly regional.
The problem is that grifers abusing the broken flagging system. I don´t blaim them, becuase they show SV and the Community what have to be changed next. They just wait in town with the you can´t perform illegal Action Option turned on, making lists of red players and grifing them. They can´t figth back, becuase the guards would attack. Everyone is turning red after a huge fight. That is the reason why we not see more of those 200 Men Battles, which are currently the most fun, and which i would like to see happen every day. If everyone turns red and get grifed, there wont be such fights anymore, becuase people reroll and try to stay blue. A fix for that need to be on the priority list.
The game need a good balance between RPK and ANTI Rpk Guilds, but atm you can´t play Anti-RPK and protect the town, becuase you get red.
The game not recognize, if there is a huge Guild vs Guild fight, and turn off Murdercounts, during that time. Grifer Guilds put blue Players on their Frontline and hope that they get attacked, to give murdercounts to the Guilds that want to defend their town.
Problem 1
Game does not recognize huge Teamfights. The loosing teams is giving Murdercounts to the winning team. Everyone turn red after a huge Battle
Possible Solution 1.
If more then 10 people are involved in a fight noone should be able to give a Murdercount. The game would need to recognize if there was a Guild vs Guild fight.
Solution 2.
If a red Player in your Guild is fighting together with blue Players from his Guild, non of the Blue Players should be able to give a Murdercount
Solution 3.
If a Blue Player attacking a grey Player, he should not only turn hidden grey for the grey Player he attacked, but also for his whole guild.
He should not get criminal and attacked by the guards, but he should not be able to give Murdercounts to any of the Guildmembers that are helping their grey friend.
Solution 4
Every Player from a different City Kingdom, should not be able to give murdercounts to Players from another Kingdom/Town, becuase they are in war with each other, but how should the game recognize that ? Then you would be forced to select a home City or Kingdom, or make it so, that every Guild owning a Keep is in war with each other.
Problem 2
Blue Blocking/Blue Jumping
A group is defending a town and someone of the defenders is making a mistake and excidently hit a blue Defender mostly results in a situation in which the other Defenders, which were fighting along his side jump on him, becuase they want his loot. Such behavior is toxic and makes the red Attackers win the fight.
"the can´t perform illegal actions option" does not work and is a bad abuseable mechanic to prevent Blue Blocking which do notfulfills their purpose
, becuase players running arround in town hitting all Players and hope to find a red Player, which is not only immersion breaking but a total gamebreaker.
If new Players hang arround at the graveyard and one of them excidently hit a a blue Player, and this player fight back, he can´t be damaged from the Friends of the grey Player, that excidently hit the blue Player.
Solution 1. A blue Player that is attacking a grey Player, should turn himself Gray for his opponents whole Guild.
Problem 3
Grifers are attacking a town and mix their team with blue Players, that they put on the frontline. If one of the Defenders attack this blue Player, they all get a Murdercount and get jumped from behind from the Guards.
"Hiding the Grey Status does not work."
"If a red Player in your Guild is fighting together with blue Players from his Guild, non of the Blue Players should be able to give a Murdercount" or all Guildmembers shoudl turn grey, becuase they have a red player in their Group and this is a criminal Action. They are defending a Criminal.
Problem 4
Anti RPK Defenders of a town will all turn red over time.
Solution 1
Maybe the owners of a town should not be able to loose as much Reputation , that the guards will kill them on sight, even if they are red, and the Prists in town could resurrect them. So they can do their Job and defend the Town, if they captured it using the terretory controll system ?
The game need a good balance between RPK and ANTI Rpk Guilds, but atm you can´t play Anti-RPK and protect the town, becuase you get red.
The game not recognize, if there is a huge Guild vs Guild fight, and turn off Murdercounts, during that time. Grifer Guilds put blue Players on their Frontline and hope that they get attacked, to give murdercounts to the Guilds that want to defend their town.
Problem 1
Game does not recognize huge Teamfights. The loosing teams is giving Murdercounts to the winning team. Everyone turn red after a huge Battle
Possible Solution 1.
If more then 10 people are involved in a fight noone should be able to give a Murdercount. The game would need to recognize if there was a Guild vs Guild fight.
Solution 2.
If a red Player in your Guild is fighting together with blue Players from his Guild, non of the Blue Players should be able to give a Murdercount
Solution 3.
If a Blue Player attacking a grey Player, he should not only turn hidden grey for the grey Player he attacked, but also for his whole guild.
He should not get criminal and attacked by the guards, but he should not be able to give Murdercounts to any of the Guildmembers that are helping their grey friend.
Solution 4
Every Player from a different City Kingdom, should not be able to give murdercounts to Players from another Kingdom/Town, becuase they are in war with each other, but how should the game recognize that ? Then you would be forced to select a home City or Kingdom, or make it so, that every Guild owning a Keep is in war with each other.
Problem 2
Blue Blocking/Blue Jumping
A group is defending a town and someone of the defenders is making a mistake and excidently hit a blue Defender mostly results in a situation in which the other Defenders, which were fighting along his side jump on him, becuase they want his loot. Such behavior is toxic and makes the red Attackers win the fight.
"the can´t perform illegal actions option" does not work and is a bad abuseable mechanic to prevent Blue Blocking which do notfulfills their purpose
, becuase players running arround in town hitting all Players and hope to find a red Player, which is not only immersion breaking but a total gamebreaker.
If new Players hang arround at the graveyard and one of them excidently hit a a blue Player, and this player fight back, he can´t be damaged from the Friends of the grey Player, that excidently hit the blue Player.
Solution 1. A blue Player that is attacking a grey Player, should turn himself Gray for his opponents whole Guild.
Problem 3
Grifers are attacking a town and mix their team with blue Players, that they put on the frontline. If one of the Defenders attack this blue Player, they all get a Murdercount and get jumped from behind from the Guards.
"Hiding the Grey Status does not work."
"If a red Player in your Guild is fighting together with blue Players from his Guild, non of the Blue Players should be able to give a Murdercount" or all Guildmembers shoudl turn grey, becuase they have a red player in their Group and this is a criminal Action. They are defending a Criminal.
Problem 4
Anti RPK Defenders of a town will all turn red over time.
Solution 1
Maybe the owners of a town should not be able to loose as much Reputation , that the guards will kill them on sight, even if they are red, and the Prists in town could resurrect them. So they can do their Job and defend the Town, if they captured it using the terretory controll system ?
Last edited:
Don't get me wrong, I realise these issues you're describing exist, however, they are a result of an unfinished product and a alpha/beta period. I sincerely hope you're taking this into account because right now, the game isn't meant to be played in the way you're describing. It's essentially a battle royale stress test.
I know and this is the reason for the feedback. We are supposed to stress the server and organize huge battles to test if there is lag, and if something have to be further improved. The result is that everyone turns red and get grifed. That´s the reason why we don´t see more more of such huge battles, which i would like to see happening every day. ATm i can only log out, becuase i can´t build me a house with a prist, a crafting bench and materials inside, becuase the grifers are camping the Crafting bench in town. Every town need minimum 2 Crafting Areas like Gaul Kur.
Also the Prist locations have to be changed and improved.
Prist Locations Feddback.
Add 2 Prists near Kranesh (1-2 Min away) and remove the Prist in Town. It is bad decission, if ghosts can just revive, the attackers distracted, so that they can regear non stop. There should be a 2 min way back to town. I think Gk need 3 Prists. One on the upper side of the Town and two...
mortalonline2.com
i don´t get it why SV have removed many of the prists. GK had 3 Prists before and now we only have 1 prist ! This was a bad decission to remove the prists, especially if we can´t place houses in which we can put our own prists. i think those prists of lawless towns should not be in town, but outside. At least 1-2 Minutes away.
Atm (in the time when the crafting Station are camped from Grifers) the only option to get gear is a second account with a blue Crafter... A Character you can log out somewhere in the wilderness, near the red prist, with some equipment to regear your red character. i don´t like that.
Maybe make the guards interact if a blue Player attacks a red Player in town, as they would do, if a blue Player get attacked. Only people with a bounty licence should be allowed to attack the red players in town, after visiting the murder board, and those should be highlighted.
I don´t know if this would eb the best solution, but it would fix the current problem.
Last edited: