Huge Feedback about the flagging System and how to improve it.

[Teknique]

Who would have thought SV would give us a system even worse than what we had in MO1. It's actually impressive.

It isn’t worse per se.

Aspects of it certainly are.

What’s good: being able to go into town red. Being able to kill reds in town and elsewhere and having the fun of figuring out who.

What’s worse: no local grey. No expiry on murder accidentally hit someone and they report you 10 hours later. Perhaps some of the other stuff mentioned in this thread with blue blocking people

 

[Eldrath]

I was under the impression that enough murdercounts hindered ressurecting at priests in blue towns. I haven't personally tested it yet but heard it from my guildmates. Maybe it was a bug or they misinterpreted it, either way it's good they are moving away from the old flagging system.

This is how it works. 5+ MCs will prevent you from resurrecting in towns.

 

[Rhias]

This is how it works. 5+ MCs will prevent you from resurrecting in towns.

If that's the case I consider this a bug. It should only happen when you don't have enough reputation. At least that's how Henrik explained it in one of his streams.

 

[Anabolic Man]

At least SV decided to get rid of the Statsloss System. Never liked it.

 

[Kenshin]

The criminal status system makes no sense, and this is on top of the guards being OP. If you commit a crime out of no one's view, or leave no witnesses you should not still be run down by the guards. I think that to gain criminal status someone should have to hold "E" or "R" or whatever key on you and then it will report. For instance, someone sees you kill another player, they walk up to you and press "E" , the little circle icon appears and once it finishes you have been reported. You cannot falsely report a player, for pressing that key will not do anything. This way the game has still registered that you have commit a crime, but until another player takes action you do not have criminal status. If you are in the guards range and they "see" you commit a crime you will get criminal status for that too. This way it is fair and makes since, you get criminal status if someone reports you, and not just if you commit a crime in the middle of nowhere. The guards wont just have spidey-sense and instantly know that you committed a crime behind that building. Yes, it makes it easier for PKers to get away, but face it, they usually get away anyway. This feature will do more good than harm though, for no long will you be killed by the guards for accidentally stabbing a pig or your friend, ETC, when they dont want that to happen. You could be having a friendly duel with someone you know, get criminal status and the next thing you know, a guard spots you. This is what I think the system should be, please let me know if you would alter/change anything .
*When I say criminal status I mean when others are allowed to hit you and guards come and kill you, not when you are fully red and cant even spawn at the nearby priest.*

 

[Woody]

It isn’t worse per se.

Aspects of it certainly are.

What’s good: being able to go into town red. Being able to kill reds in town and elsewhere and having the fun of figuring out who.

What’s worse: no local grey. No expiry on murder accidentally hit someone and they report you 10 hours later. Perhaps some of the other stuff mentioned in this thread with blue blocking people

I'm starting not to mind the no local grey now since it's fairly easy to figure out who's a criminal when you visually see them in the act. This is actually a cool aspect of the gameplay imo. Furthermore, I do understand where they're going with this approach and it does enable a degree of safety in towns for non PK players, noobs etc. which is needed for the game's ability to grow. The no expiry on murder on the other hand, aye yi yi. I just love getting a murder count when I've hit someone, they don't die, and then 20mins later they die to a zombie. Zzzzzzz.

Murdercount should only apply when:

• a player finishes off another player in mercy mode.
• a player has put the other player into mercy mode, and they then die from any source of dmg (e.g animal).
• a player has inflicted damage of between 5%-100% of your max HP (so handle hits are negated) - the more damage you deal to them the longer the duration for the MC to clear e.g exponentially:
  • 5% = 2 mins.
  • 10% = 4 mins
  • 20% = 8 mins
  • 40% = 16 mins
  • 80%+ = 32 mins

Murdercount timer should also not refresh on a new MC but should remain as it is in terms of it requires game time to count down. This is good as it prevents people just logging off characters for periods of time if they multi account.

Finally, when you die to a player as a blue, the server needs to evaluate the closest blue priest to your position and should you death run across the map to another town/priest, it should remember which priest was closest to your death location and remove rep from the murderers, from that region.

Edit: Aiding a player that is flagged as an eligible MC due to % damage done to the target, via healing of any kind of buff (magic) or by completing a trade with them should also flag the assisting player with the same logic.

 

[Xursed]

I don't know if I'm the only one that feels the same about the flag system but it's pretty hard to stay blue. The battles and fights are super fun but after a 20 vs 20 guild fight you come home to 10+ murder counts. Players can attack murderers in town and the murderers have to run because if they defend them selves they get attacked by the guards. The main problem though is most of the "Murderers" are just new players that tried to fight a group of gankers not knowing half were blue and the other half red.

On top of all this you can send a murder count 8 hours after a fight. Is it just me or do other people feel this way?

 

[barcode]

do murder counts still require the other guy to be online at the time you give it? pretty sure you used to be able to logout after murdering someone and their murdercount went nowhere, tho maybe they fixed it i havent had to test that in a long time. regardless, certainly there should be a time limit of some kind to how long after being hit you can give a murdercount

my issue is that SV hasn't exlpained what they're going to do for mudercounts/standings in any depth at all so we really have no way to evaluate/give feedback on the system as it is intended to be. I'd really like to have a chance to give some feedback before we're saddled with some system that almost certainly wont accomplish any goal of 'punishing' murderers

-barcode

 

[Woody]

Probably a good idea to check out this thread and keep the discussion going there: https://www.mortalonline2.com/forum...e-flagging-system-and-how-to-improve-it.1898/

MCs from hitting someone needs to be damage based and have an expiry time so that its relevant to the cause of your death. That said, I think the system does actually work well to balance out players who aren't necessarily going to be massive PKers or who are noob/crafters that want to work out of towns while also allowing reds to still access the town (so long as their rep is still good). There will also be more work done into the GvG content and flagging (e.g. warring against other groups, territories etc) which we don't have yet so we need to wait and see.

 

[Teknique]

I'm starting not to mind the no local grey now since it's fairly easy to figure out who's a criminal when you visually see them in the act. This is actually a cool aspect of the gameplay imo. Furthermore, I do understand where they're going with this approach and it does enable a degree of safety in towns for non PK players, noobs etc. which is needed for the game's ability to grow. The no expiry on murder on the other hand, aye yi yi. I just love getting a murder count when I've hit someone, they don't die, and then 20mins later they die to a zombie. Zzzzzzz.

Murdercount should only apply when:

• a player finishes off another player in mercy mode.
• a player has put the other player into mercy mode, and they then die from any source of dmg (e.g animal).
• a player has inflicted damage of between 5%-100% of your max HP (so handle hits are negated) - the more damage you deal to them the longer the duration for the MC to clear e.g exponentially:
  • 5% = 2 mins.
  • 10% = 4 mins
  • 20% = 8 mins
  • 40% = 16 mins
  • 80%+ = 32 mins

Murdercount should also not refresh on a new MC but should remain as in game time to count down as this prevents people just logging off characters for period of time if they multi account.

Finally, when you die to a player as a blue, the server needs to evaluate the closest blue priest to your position and should you death run across the map to another town/priest, it should remember which priest was closest to your death location and remove rep from the murderers, from that region.

Great feedback

 

[barcode]

should mages healing the melee toon thats killing you also be eligible for murder counts? they may have done zero damage but they may have had a pivotal role in assisting in murder. maybe they did very little damage with a corrupt but certainly that could turn the tide in a battle.

i cant think of any way to automate how murdercounts can be applied that doesnt end up either ineffective or abusable (or infinitely complicated that requires a lot of buy-in by every player). I suspect its just a circle that cannot be squared. I think its simpler to encourage players to join guilds and to allow guilds to manage their kos lists

-barcode

 

[Woody]

should mages healing the melee toon thats killing you also be eligible for murder counts? they may have done zero damage but they may have had a pivotal role in assisting in murder. maybe they did very little damage with a corrupt but certainly that could turn the tide in a battle.

i cant think of any way to automate how murdercounts can be applied that doesnt end up either ineffective or abusable (or infinitely complicated that requires a lot of buy-in by every player). I suspect its just a circle that cannot be squared. I think its simpler to encourage players to join guilds and to allow guilds to manage their kos lists

-barcode

Yes good point. I believe with the approach I've suggested, anyone that assists a player that has done a percentage of damage to the target e.g. healed the attacking player should share the same debuff/elligible MC timer. This could also include completing a trade. The same rules should be applied to the criminal flag. Assisting criminals via healing or trading with them should share the criminal flag.

Think of it as aiding and abetting.

 

[Xursed]

Probably a good idea to check out this thread and keep the discussion going there: https://www.mortalonline2.com/forum...e-flagging-system-and-how-to-improve-it.1898/

MCs from hitting someone needs to be damage based and have an expiry time so that its relevant to the cause of your death. That said, I think the system does actually work well to balance out players who aren't necessarily going to be massive PKers or who are noob/crafters that want to work out of towns while also allowing reds to still access the town (so long as their rep is still good). There will also be more work done into the GvG content and flagging (e.g. warring against other groups, territories etc) which we don't have yet so we need to wait and see.

I think allowing murderers to defend them selves in town would be nice.

 

[Woody]

I think allowing murderers to defend them selves in town would be nice.

Agreed. Perhaps guards should not get involved if you act in self defence only. However, if you were to still hit a player before they hit you, the guards should still act.

 

[Teknique]

Agreed. Perhaps guards should not get involved if you act in self defence only. However, if you were to still hit a player before they hit you, the guards should still act.

That is what is meant by “local grey” btw it was a flag in mo1 where a player was blue to everyone else and the guards but grey to you since they hit you first while you were criminal

 

[Bicorps]

I don't know if I'm the only one that feels the same about the flag system but it's pretty hard to stay blue. The battles and fights are super fun but after a 20 vs 20 guild fight you come home to 10+ murder counts. Players can attack murderers in town and the murderers have to run because if they defend them selves they get attacked by the guards. The main problem though is most of the "Murderers" are just new players that tried to fight a group of gankers not knowing half were blue and the other half red.

On top of all this you can send a murder count 8 hours after a fight. Is it just me or do other people feel this way?

Remove the MurderCount System and Keep the reputation system only and the problem is solve or make people local grey when they attack a red.

 

[Evelyn]

I'm really disappointed to see Henrik talk on stream about murderers and consequences that are deserved in the way that he did, it is like he is not understanding that after a single guild vs guild fight you are almost certain to go Red from 5 or more murdercounts. These kinds of fights range from attacking cities to roaming engages to simple city defense. You cannot punish the players for participating in guild warfare in the same context as someone who ganks people all day long.

If they cannot fix this system for that distinction then murdercounts should be removed until they can properly implement it.

 

[Vito_Corleone]

I'm really disappointed to see Henrik talk on stream about murderers and consequences that are deserved in the way that he did, it is like he is not understanding that after a single guild vs guild fight you are almost certain to go Red from 5 or more murdercounts. These kinds of fights range from attacking cities to roaming engages to simple city defense. You cannot punish the players for participating in guild warfare in the same context as someone who ganks people all day long.

If they cannot fix this system for that distinction then murdercounts should be removed until they can properly implement it.

If you remember guild vs guild can declare war at Guild Stone in MO1. Second Guild what i remember cant refuse the war. War starts for 48 hours i quess. And you can kill enemies whenever you want, without murdercounts.

 

[Evelyn]

If you remember guild vs guild can declare war at Guild Stone in MO1. Second Guild what i remember cant refuse the war. War starts for 48 hours i quess. And you can kill enemies whenever you want, without murdercounts.

Irrelevant until implemented. It just kind of underlines my point that the current system needs changing asap because it is throttling PvP hard.

 

[Vito_Corleone]

Irrelevant until implemented. It just kind of underlines my point that the current system needs changing asap because it is throttling PvP hard.

Agree, because in MO1 it was normal that 1 char per 4 slots are always RED. now when game go in 1 char per account, they really need to come up with this mechanic.

If you have 1 char, what would be red after fight somewhere and pick murdercounts. You will not be able to function normally, because your char also are the craftsman, refiner, extracter ect. He must be in guarded zones most time.