How will Smaller guilds protect their 🏰 Castles while they are offline? Auto Arrow Turret idea, mounted by guards, also "guard mode" pets idea.

[PoisonArrows]

Hear me out before judging as i know most of the community will automatically be against Ai defenses. The comparison i am drawing from will be from a game called Ark Survival Evolved.

Comparison General Synopsis ⬇⬇⬇

Ark Survival Evolved is a Full loot PVP/PVE game that has many of the same elements as Mortal Online1 and 2. Including base building. They also have Pets, although in Ark the pets are actual dinosaurs. The game released in 2015 and is still well played today. Even though there is Traps as well as automated turrets a attacking player has a much easier time taking your base while you are asleep, and it happens A LOT. (Even if you are awake the attacker has the advantage) In Mortal Online1 "Sleep Base Raiding" was also known to happen but because it's so much harder to obtain the siege weapons needed for base destruction not as many players can grasp just how easy it is to take a Mo1 base...



General Toxic Strategies used in Mortal to make Base obliteration even easier. Big Brain Time

1.) Guild Infiltration: The player or players, pretend to be your friend, gaining your trust and learning your secrets in time. Once you have enough valuables and they have your full trust, they will simply tell their friends in their "Real Guild" that you and most of your buddies are offline, and that it is time to kick your door in and take all your items. Similar to Ghost Scouting, which no longer exist but much more effective.

2.) Espionage: The Player/Players will attempt to listen in on your discord chats, or spy on your in game activities for many of the same reasons as above, mapping out as much detail as possible to get a accurate summary of when it is time to strike.

3.) A Offer of Betrayal: The Player/Players will find a player target, befriend them and then offer them to quit the guild they are in and join theirs instead, usually by claiming their guild is so much better then the one you are in. In time they can weaken your guild by snatching members 1 by 1.

4.) Guild alliances: Not exactly toxic, but one can't argue with how effective this is. Suddenly doubling your numbers to take out a enemy guild with sheer force.



Artillery Placement for Guards either on the walls or on Guard towers would be a great idea! Additionally i am hoping Pets can be told to guard a town or area as well since i have heard we will be able to also get Dragons in game to fulfill that function already.
Auto Arrow Turret Idea: Full Example!

A Hired Guard in Game would man one of these and fire at enemy players. Guard will not attack players in same guild or their pets. Iv'e also hoped for Guard Customization allowing us to choose their spell load out for lictors, and their armor and weapons as well.




In Ark Survival Evolved you can spec your dinosaurs level up points. Attackers will generally have a ton of Damage, or a mix of damage, hp and movespeed.

Players have come up with numerous ways to destroy enemy bases i'll list a few here.

1.) Turret Sniping, the player uses a Sniper Rifle and picks off your base turrets 1 at a time, usually from a mountain top to duck behind to avoid returning fire.

2.) Boat Suiciding: The player places a ton of C4 on the nose of the boat made purposely out of disposable low quality materials. They ram the nose of the boat into bases made on the shore and then explode the nose of the boat that is loaded with C4, instantly breaking down the opponents walls.

3.) Rocket Launcher... Not much to say here. Takes longer then option 2.) but works.

4.) Turtle Tank: Turtles are everywhere in Ark: What most players don't know is they are HP Gods! Tame a ton of them, spec them all out in Hp and send them to attack player base. The turrets will target the turtles, wasting their ammunition and from there the rest of your job is easy.



These are just a few of the common strategies in the game. There is way more advanced strategies but i won't cover them. Really the point i am making here, is players are smarter then AI, and turrets and other things won't stop a player completely from sieging your base, but if you plan enough sometimes it can detour them long enough to give you a night sleep.




Base defense examples in Arc Survival Evolved: YOU WON'T REGRET USING THESE 7 DINOS TO DEFEND YOUR BASE IN ARK!! TOP 7 BASE DEFENCE DINOS - YouTube


And that is just the beginning, there is smaller dinosaurs "Scorpions, COMPY, and Troodon" which can be hidden in the smallest spaces, players will also try to build 3x the base foundation and even triple up on their doors to make breaking in even harder. But nothing really saves your base forever. They even have forcefields now lol and a bed which allows you to sleep in peace lol.


TOP 10 BEST TURRET DINOS TO USE FOR EVERYTHING IN ARK SURVIVAL EVOLVED!! || ARK TOP 10! - YouTube These Dinosaurs act as turrets to defend your base.


Closing Thoughts:
As you can see there is a lot of crazy things players do in Arc Survival Evolved. It is a different game for sure, although some of the strategies from Arc can actually carry over to Mortal. So i am hoping we can defend our bases better, and hopefully henrik can see that such things don't break a game if done correctly. At any rate, who wants to spend so much gold to see your hard work up in smoke without a fighting chance as you sleep?

 

[Tzone]

Hired guards, along with making setting up siege equipment take days in a nearby camp. So you cant find and attack the camp before they complete their siege

 

[PoisonArrows]

Hired guards, along with making setting up siege equipment take days in a nearby camp. So you cant find and attack the camp before they complete their siege

Interesting but said players can still get their siege equipment ready and then attack at night time when someone is sleeping? Or is there a timer for how long they can use Siege Equipment?

 

[Tzone]

Interesting but said players can still get their siege equipment ready and then attack at night time when someone is sleeping? Or is there a timer for how long they can use Siege Equipment?

from what henrik has mentioned you better just kill their camp before they try to siege you. Destroying stuff will still take a long time. You have days to destroy a siege campe while they are building.

 

[Rhias]

MO2 seems to have a lot of Mercenary guilds. Pick one, pay them a weekly fee to roam by your palisade during your off time, and give them some kind of bonus payment in case they detect/break a siege.
Local larger guilds roam that area anyways.

 

[Draug]

Why would smaller guilds go for a castle?

 

[Diocles]

Why would smaller guilds go for a castle?

Maybe he means the strongholds?

 

[MolagAmur]

This topic has been brought up a lot. My opinion has always been that I don't like the idea of ninja sieging keeps. I'm not going to go into deep detail again like I usually do...but if there was a mechanic in place that allowed for the defending team to know the siege is coming and allow them to prepare...then that would be ideal. For you "realistic" nerds out there, armies wouldn't march across the plains without the defenders noticing and having time to prepare, right? Not saying surprise attacks never happened in history, but you get it. Myself and others have came up with a few ideas in the past that are buried somewhere on these forums or the MO1 forums.

Other games have siege windows. People here don't really like that idea here since its a single megaserver and thats fine. For gameplay and fun sake, and better overall wars, attackers should have to do something that makes them go through a process that allows each side to make war plans. Not just walk up to the gate, drop a mang, and start lobbing boulders. It makes for bad gameplay in my opinion, and everyone else who enjoys more to war than sieging at 3am.

Houses are a different story. Its fine if that gets dropped and you don't see it coming.

And for all you people that like the freedom of being able to drop a siege whenever you want. I respect that. But I guarantee you that you'll have a lot more interesting conflicts if it wasn't so ratty. Looking back at MO1, things would have been way different and more guilds would have stuck around.

On the flip side, maybe that was just the consequence of having a low population. I do remember in my early days there were some very fun and drawn out wars. Either way, thats the goal right? Once the war is declared, the siege can happen at anytime within that window. Whether its a couple days or a week. At least guilds can take the proper precautions and plan to defend themselves. There will still be tactical decisions to be made on how to win the war. No need for the auto-turrets, NPC guards, or other gimmicks to defend your shit. Thats up to players. We just need to proper mechanics to allow us to do that.

 

[barcode]

Other games have siege windows. People here don't really like that idea here since its a single megaserver and thats fine.

i, for one, much prefer siege windows. personally i think the sieges should last for a few hours and either you take the keep or not; its not realistic for players to be defending sieges for an infinite time frame, the majority of us simply dont have that kind of playtime available.

the mechanic of selecting a siege window must be that noone can outright declare the window. i.e. the defender cant say their siege windows are their primetime playing hours and people in australia/japan time are then practically immune due to low pop, and vice versa. have attackers choose a relatively wide window, then defenders narrow that down a bit and it continues back and forth till you end up with a 2-3 hour siege time that both sides can prepare for.

unrelated, but npcs have no place in defending a keep. make defensive structures buildable and mannable by players to give the defenders an advantage.

-barcode

 

[MolagAmur]

i, for one, much prefer siege windows. personally i think the sieges should last for a few hours and either you take the keep or not; its not realistic for players to be defending sieges for an infinite time frame, the majority of us simply dont have that kind of playtime available.

the mechanic of selecting a siege window must be that noone can outright declare the window. i.e. the defender cant say their siege windows are their primetime playing hours and people in australia/japan time are then practically immune due to low pop, and vice versa. have attackers choose a relatively wide window, then defenders narrow that down a bit and it continues back and forth till you end up with a 2-3 hour siege time that both sides can prepare for.

unrelated, but npcs have no place in defending a keep. make defensive structures buildable and mannable by players to give the defenders an advantage.

-barcode

I mean yeah. Id be perfectly fine with that. Its the tried and true for other MMOs. SV should probably just follow suit. It allows both sides time to prepare and there shouldn't be any excuses.

I do however think the defender should have a tad bit more weight on the time window decision. To clarify, both sides continually narrow it down, but the defender can pull it more in favor of their time by a bit. Guilds determined to siege a castle will get it done regardless, but I imagine a defending guild will have claims thrown on them very often. Unless of course there is a cooldown and/or its expensive to declare siege. (Which would make sense). It hopefully is expensive to own a keep, so that would kinda balance out the attackers needing to spend gold to make a claim on an enemy keep.

I know it may sound like I'm making it too easy for defenders. But I want sieges to be a big deal that needs to be planned out well. Not just something you do one afternoon to get some pvp lol.

 

[Jackdstripper]

Why would smaller guilds go for a castle?

Exactly this.
Keeps are not for every 3 man guild that wants to play lord of the castle. Keeps are the ultimate display of power and influence. They control a territory and are a large, difficult and expensive investment to build and maintain. If you dont have the power (yes, manpower), or influence (allies) you shouldnt have a keep. Plain and simple.
the game doesnt owe everyone and their mom a keep. Keeps are end-game group content, hard to get and even harder to hold. And thats just the way it should be.

 

[agui]

No auto defense ... thats shit ... just dont go for castles ... get something smaller or make mutual defense pacts ... work yourbdiplomacy ... and must be limited the numbers of guard you can put this time ...

 

[cerqo]

and must be limited the numbers of guard you can put this time ...

This time there should be NO retarded NPC guards defending and making some dead dogshit 10 man guilds keep/city unsiegeable because the manganon gets 1 shot through the walls by an NPC you cannot see or target.

I REALLY hope SV overhauls the dumpsterfire trash siege mechanics we had in MO1. Theres plenty of ways to make sieges actually engaging and fun.

Running boulders for hours and shooting it from a garbage siege weapon that gets trashed by arrows or just completely raped by NPC guards FROM BEHIND WALLS, is not good or fun gameplay.

A good 80% of the guilds in MO1 that held keeps, PURELY held them because of the absolutely disgustingly broken NPC guards and all the trash that came with it. No NPCs to protect their shit and they would have gotten flopped off the map in record time.

Sadly seeing how the rest of the game is evolving in regards to mounted, and pets, I think we can expect sieging to just get ported straight over like most of whats in MO2 so far. Atleast there's hope for them to revamp the siege system in the future but its very unlikely it will enter this game any different than it was in MO1.

Player guards should NEVER be a thing, if you cant defend your shit then you shouldn't own it, simple as that.

 

[PoisonArrows]

from what henrik has mentioned you better just kill their camp before they try to siege you. Destroying stuff will still take a long time. You have days to destroy a siege campe while they are building.

Interesting insight, i will have to remember to attack them 1st.

 

[PoisonArrows]

Why would smaller guilds go for a castle?

There is different types of bases you can build. There is a house, and then i think Castle was next, and i think something after that. But Keeps are only for 16 guilds in the game.

 

[PoisonArrows]

Maybe he means the strongholds?

Oh yes perhaps that was it. Is that the best one besides a keep?

 

[PoisonArrows]

This topic has been brought up a lot. My opinion has always been that I don't like the idea of ninja sieging keeps. I'm not going to go into deep detail again like I usually do...but if there was a mechanic in place that allowed for the defending team to know the siege is coming and allow them to prepare...then that would be ideal. For you "realistic" nerds out there, armies wouldn't march across the plains without the defenders noticing and having time to prepare, right? Not saying surprise attacks never happened in history, but you get it. Myself and others have came up with a few ideas in the past that are buried somewhere on these forums or the MO1 forums.

Other games have siege windows. People here don't really like that idea here since its a single megaserver and thats fine. For gameplay and fun sake, and better overall wars, attackers should have to do something that makes them go through a process that allows each side to make war plans. Not just walk up to the gate, drop a mang, and start lobbing boulders. It makes for bad gameplay in my opinion, and everyone else who enjoys more to war than sieging at 3am.

Houses are a different story. Its fine if that gets dropped and you don't see it coming.

And for all you people that like the freedom of being able to drop a siege whenever you want. I respect that. But I guarantee you that you'll have a lot more interesting conflicts if it wasn't so ratty. Looking back at MO1, things would have been way different and more guilds would have stuck around.

On the flip side, maybe that was just the consequence of having a low population. I do remember in my early days there were some very fun and drawn out wars. Either way, thats the goal right? Once the war is declared, the siege can happen at anytime within that window. Whether its a couple days or a week. At least guilds can take the proper precautions and plan to defend themselves. There will still be tactical decisions to be made on how to win the war. No need for the auto-turrets, NPC guards, or other gimmicks to defend your shit. Thats up to players. We just need to proper mechanics to allow us to do that.

For your 1st Point: In that Game example of the Arrow turret. The game is called Conquerors Blade, and in order to start a war with another players guild you deliver them a note that says you are starting a war with them in like 3 days time. I think this is a great idea to have. Also i think Ai defense would really fit the theme since we already have Ai defense in towns, not to mention Henrik said a Dragon can defend the player bases, so it stands to reason we should be able to have other pets and guards defend us as well.


For your 2nd Point: Or allow us to set traps around our area to better protect it, as well as design our bases with the functions of Ai defense/turrets and traps in mind. Then the enemy has to fight through that as well. Good Base Design and defensive plans are a huge part of what makes a base in Ark survival strong or weak. Also it makes no sense to have a Engineer skill and a Carpentry skill without adding more to it.


I'll add this: Some people have Jobs and other responsibilities. The idea that i may have taken Weeks or Months to get enough gold to build something is extremely rewarding and fun. But the idea that i could lose that base over night just because i didn't have 100 people playing with me like the other guy is bs. But if i had time to save enough gold for my defenses before i built my base in the 1st place, then i could be better prepared to protect my gold investment and save my sanity. Adding onto my point here, you are trying to say something about Mo1 Wars being "Ratty" and that there would have been more conflicts if people stuck around. But what incentive is there to stick around for another round of Bs, if like my paragraph here I'm explaining how if you don't have all day 24/7 to play it will take time to get this stuff. Even in a small guild. And then once you lose it because of no defense in the game design then why would you continue and expect anything to change? The argument join one of the biggest guilds or get off our game doesn't really make sense either. Actually on Ark Survival Evolved if you were a solo player or small guild player, you built your base on the Ocean and camped far away from players and hide your important items in chest under the ocean, with a spawn bed. But in Mortal we have no such options. But it seems many of the community doesn't want safety, they just want griefing and for players to stick around.


For your last point: You argue that you don't want ninja sieging to happen, but you also argue that Ai and turrets are not needed. You might want to think about how that contracts itself. You also say War Plans are a good idea, instead of simply drop a mang and start lobbing boulders.. What is War plans if it's just a players vs players without anything added in since the last game? The idea of plans involves using a means to defeat the enemy. If there is no means, then there is no plan, just idiots swinging swords at each other, uncoordinated as all hell, like that defense of the Tindrem tournament. If you think this is going to be some lord of the rings shit with a commander shouting "ARCHERS".... and then "SWORDS" and everyone doing things at the same time and we are going to take down the enemy before they scale our walls you got another thing coming XD. Hell we sorta saw 1 guy trying to command the forces of tindrem in the tournament and it looked like a jumbled up mess. And it made no difference, that's the most important part. It made no difference. That's what PvP looks like right now in this game. And there is so much wrong with it, from getting geared to making money to get gear, to just 2 guys walking in circles poking a spear at each other.... Because there is no combat abilities. I mean... is that battle of tindrem really what you guys want this game to look like.. I mean be honest with yourselves, because unless there is other stuff added to the game then that's what the game is going to stay looking like lol.

 

[PoisonArrows]

Exactly this.
Keeps are not for every 3 man guild that wants to play lord of the castle. Keeps are the ultimate display of power and influence. They control a territory and are a large, difficult and expensive investment to build and maintain. If you dont have the power (yes, manpower), or influence (allies) you shouldnt have a keep. Plain and simple.
the game doesnt owe everyone and their mom a keep. Keeps are end-game group content, hard to get and even harder to hold. And thats just the way it should be.

I think you heard the word "Castle" and missed the point i was trying to make in this entire post. I'm not talking about Keeps or whatever the word is for the biggest Castle in the game. Unless i am mistaken, i thought Henrik said normal players can build Houses and also something else that looked to me like a Castle. I think he called the house the "Small house" and the Castle "The Big House".

Realistically all i was trying to say was, how can smaller guilds protect their base, with a few idea's added in as suggestions for base defense.

 

[ThaBadMan]

As others said already, no artificial troops to defend your keep for you, its a player driven game and we all know how bad it got in MO. Lets just not open that box again.

Best way is to have to announce sieges and have a time frame it takes from announcement to actual siege start in any of the numerous ways that have been tried in other games. Noone likes ninja sieges.

 

[PoisonArrows]

This time there should be NO retarded NPC guards defending and making some dead dogshit 10 man guilds keep/city unsiegeable because the manganon gets 1 shot through the walls by an NPC you cannot see or target.

I REALLY hope SV overhauls the dumpsterfire trash siege mechanics we had in MO1. Theres plenty of ways to make sieges actually engaging and fun.

Running boulders for hours and shooting it from a garbage siege weapon that gets trashed by arrows or just completely raped by NPC guards FROM BEHIND WALLS, is not good or fun gameplay.

A good 80% of the guilds in MO1 that held keeps, PURELY held them because of the absolutely disgustingly broken NPC guards and all the trash that came with it. No NPCs to protect their shit and they would have gotten flopped off the map in record time.

Sadly seeing how the rest of the game is evolving in regards to mounted, and pets, I think we can expect sieging to just get ported straight over like most of whats in MO2 so far. Atleast there's hope for them to revamp the siege system in the future but its very unlikely it will enter this game any different than it was in MO1.

Player guards should NEVER be a thing, if you cant defend your shit then you shouldn't own it, simple as that.

So what you are saying is, a player should be able to launch a Catapult at my home and i should have no option for defense? (In other games you can shoot back with a Cannon or Catapult) Why is it Mortal Online people are so short sighted, they think their game is perfect and argue flaws without a solution to a problem. You actually talk about Dumpsterfire Trash siege mechanics, but your argument is a dumpsterfire and you are angry that a guard can shoot you with a bow? Asking Devs to Lower Guard Arrow accuracy is a example of a solution to a problem, complaining guards are too hard for me when i want to take the enemies butt cheeks with my catapult is a example of simply complaining. Who cares about Guards i can make a Longbow and shoot your dumb catapult thing too. Do you even think before you talk? No wonder the Devs don't always listen, this community is full of morons. They are here to sell a game, and make it so the next generation of players sticks around, not appease the 1% of hard core pvp elitist that want to kill castles that have no defenses. Try Ark Survival Evolved i promise you won't stand a chance.


If you can't beat Ai you shouldn't even be talking. Everybody knows about Mo1 Ai falling through floors. The trick was to find what area's they would glitch through and which ones the ai fixes itself on and acted normally. Players do it on Mo2 as well they already did it on White bear spawn so SV removed the boulder. If you can't even do that much you shouldn't even go near a keep.


Your argument is so simple, it's almost like if i told you. "Play MA, and Mounted Archer Only" because you sound like you are afraid of Guards and My White Bear. Who's Bear Penetrated you and left bad memories, you can be honest I'll be your doctor Phil for the day.