How to alienate your PVP community

[Gladiator]

Some time ago me and my friend created a guild, the Cowardly Knights.
A few weeks ago we decided it is time to build a house for storage, move all our belongings to the house and live the life of bandits.
While this is all fine and dandy, the following game updates happened :

1. The closest red priests to cities were removed.
- This means that dying next to a city meant a 10-15 minutes run depending on whether you find a horse or not. This is borderline acceptable and a pain in the ass but we grit and beared with it.

2. The red priests at Castles were also removed lated
- This meant that without spending 2500 gold + 500 gold + resources +upkeep to build a stronghold and hire a priest you are looking at about a 20-25 minutes walk / ride back to base.

While I do understand that there should be penalties for criminals, this is not a penalty. It's an artificial loss.
I don't really care about loot, Im actually more accustomed to playing games like Wurm Online, in which losing your gearset meant losing 100 real life dollars.
I would love for gear to be more valuable, I think losing gear is a good thing.

What i think is unnacceptable is artifically adding a half an hour pause in between being able to go PVP again. Why?
Most people play this game in order to pvp right? Thats the whole point. If we wanted to play a game with story, PVE dungeons, roleplay etc, we would play WoW or FFXIV or ESO, or some other game that excells in those regards much more.

What is more, these changes came without a notice.
One day you're fine, the next you realize if you die you get to spend the next 30 minutes coming back and regearing.
30 minutes. Some people can only play for 2-3 hours because they have school, jobs, family, imagine spending half of your gaming time running back naked.

This was a tutorial on how to alienate your PVP community step by step presented by yours trully, StarVault.

 

[Rhias]

Imagine building a house to regear close to a red priest at a town.
Then imagine SV moved the priest farther away and you need to build a new house.
Then they removed the red priests outside towns and you need to build a third house at a keep.
And then SV removes the red priests from keeps.

Damn, SV must be really enjoying to fuck people over.

 

[Gladiator]

Imagine building a house to regear close to a red priest at a town.
Then imagine SV moved the priest farther away and you need to build a new house.
Then they removed the red priests outside towns and you need to build a third house at a keep.
And then SV removes the red priests from keeps.

Damn, SV must be really enjoying to fuck people over.

And what is next? Do you take the risk and move again? What if that priest gets removed? Do you build a stronghold? What if they change that without notice? Can't they see this is a major issue? Making huge changes to a player's style of playing without notice?

If this was my game and i would make such huge changes as not being able to SPAWN, i would reset everyone's criminality beforehand, but thats another story for another day...

 

[zoloka1]

Not to mention the possible 10 pack of wolves and 6 brown bear spawns on your way back home, naked.

 

[finegamingconnoisseur]

I think SV is simply responding to substantial critical feedback against excessive pvp of the dastardly sort near town. This is where new players are coming into the mainland fresh off the boat, as it were, only to be met with bloodthirsty pkers who proceed to gank them over and over.

While pvp is a big part of the game, it is clearly not the only part of the game. There are players who just want to pve, craft, or gather. While many non-pvp vets have found their own way of getting by the omnipresent pvp, many new players to the game don't have this concept of self-reliance or the know-how.

As far as penalties go, a time cost associated with dying as a red (especially if playing as a bandit) is a suitable form of penalty as far as I'm concerned. The saying time is money is true here. And having to be sent some distance away from town is actually giving the victims of pking some breathing space and a chance to lick their wounds.

 

[Gladiator]

I think SV is simply responding to substantial critical feedback against excessive pvp of the dastardly sort near town. This is where new players are coming into the mainland fresh off the boat, as it were, only to be met with bloodthirsty pkers who proceed to gank them over and over.

While pvp is a big part of the game, it is clearly not the only part of the game. There are players who just want to pve, craft, or gather. While many non-pvp vets have found their own way of getting by the omnipresent pvp, many new players to the game don't have this concept of self-reliance or the know-how.

As far as penalties go, a time cost associated with dying as a red (especially if playing as a bandit) is a suitable form of penalty as far as I'm concerned. The saying time is money is true here. And having to be sent some distance away from town is actually giving the victims of pking some breathing space and a chance to lick their wounds.

Or, you could, you know, instead of an artificial blockage to pvp in the form of a 30 minute naked walk, or 50 minute if you died to a bear on the way, you could... idk, have guards patrol around towns? Or let's say you're too lazy of a developer to work on that, ok, no problem, implement your artificial pvp block, but, before doing it, make a poll. Ask the community, is this a good idea? If you can't be bothered to even make a stupid poll, how about you announce it 1 week prior? So we know how fcked we are and we can move our houses, waste our money and resources in preparation for the next PVP cuckhold? Oh wait, you won't do that either....

I understand where you are coming from, and i understand these changes and why they were made, but the way in which they were made is disgusting.

 

[zoloka1]

the 15 minute running and banishment from towns should have been a buttfuck already, but now u have to run another 20 minute.

 

[grendel]

You could try to recruit a rez spiritist to your guild, problem solved.
Edit: While I do agree that the moving of red priests is a obvious problem in your situation, getting compensation(reset rep) would open flood gates for anyone who has been "fucked over" by changes. The solution to your problem is simple, rez spiritist.

 

[Wollkneul]

What's the point of the criminal system when it doesn't work?

A new player getting killed over and over at the graveyard by blues - report them for murder like 5 times and still they are blue and keep going. The whole going grey and everything seems so wonky. Seems like no repercussions at all. Am I missing something?

mortalonline2.com

If you click on the link above you can see a member of your "community" proclaiming starting to kill newbs as a form of protest against some minor changes in the rep system. Some others and me told him, that this behavior just leads to a harsher environment for the PKs from the devs, because obviously if you are able to sustain mindlessly killing newbies, the punishment for reds is not hard enough.


Well what should I say.

Play stupid games, win stupid prices

 

[ArcaneConsular]

There wouldn't be a griefing problem is there were actually PvP spots for people to fight over. Then they'd just go there and fight for loot

 

[Riccardo]

Players should enforce the consequences. The old red priests should not have been moved in my opinion.

If a player is killing people outside of town, this game is supposed to have a community to rally around and stop the player from killing people. Simply put, kill that player until they run out of gear to re-gear, hence neutralizing the threat and making them see the consequences of their actions. People will learn soon enough that every time that player is around to be wary or be prepared to destroy them again if they attack others.

If you can't topple the oppressor, then stay oppressed until you gather the strength to be viable. That's reality, it will suck, but hey, learn to cope.

 

[ThaBadMan]

The SV way! Chase away the fans little by little, piece by piece until only the whiners, crybabies and elitists who finally won is left...

Sad but history repeats itself! Just like advertized...

 

[Stundorn]

Most people play this game in order to pvp right?

questionable, imho it's wrong, bc
most people i meet outside of cities are gathering, pve or smth. like that and dont fight each other or attack me.

What i think is unnacceptable is artifically adding a half an hour pause in between being able to go PVP again. Why?

there is different ways in engaging to PvP, you choosed a way that needs the most dedication to it, because it's diametral opposing all other playstyles.
You can declare war on a severyl guilds and PVP all day without going grey or cannot rezz at a blue priest.
You can also PvP and avoid criminal actions, yes i know it's a disadvantage, but still possible and therefore a challenge that needs some extra dedication too.

If we wanted to play a game with story, PVE dungeons, roleplay etc, we would play WoW or FFXIV or ESO, or some other game that excells in those regards much more.

I can tell you that the games you mentioned dont excell in my RPvEvP playstyle in any way, therefor i play Mortal, but i dont play it for PvP only!
I enjoy the open PvP full loot setting while focussing on immersion, pve, gathering, roleplay...

The "PvP Community" has introduced themself to me rather elitist and oneyed in their claims and wants and how they think about other playstyles and this game be more of a RPG than a PvP only game.
you have not insulted any other players, thats really refreshing and let me hope

I think SV is simply responding to substantial critical feedback against excessive pvp of the dastardly sort near town. This is where new players are coming into the mainland fresh off the boat, as it were, only to be met with bloodthirsty pkers who proceed to gank them over and over.

this ^

another point i want to make is that "the PvP Community" had overstressed it almost everytime they got the freedom they want.
Every RPG with open PvP needs to limit this because it gets out of hand and griefing alienates more players than the whole "PVP community" consists of.

the way in which they were made is disgusting.

understandable
but well, things change, adapt or die. Other playstyles also have "problems".

this behavior just leads to a harsher environment for the PKs from the devs, because obviously if you are able to sustain mindlessly killing newbies, the punishment for reds is not hard enough.

agree on that.

What "the PVP Community" is maybe missing is, that there is not only "the PVP Community" but also the RPG, PVE, Gatherer, Fishermen and -Women degoratively named "the Carebears & Noobs Community" who also like to play this "hardcore" game and nobody want to ruin anything, but to find compromises.
While several playstyles are diametral opposing each other, there need to be the willingness to do a compromise.
The "RPG, PVE, Gatherer etc.. Community" is already willing to play in a open PVP full loot game and they dont mind to get ambushed, killed, robbed, ganked, griefed and insulted sometimes, but this is only bearable ones in a while.
So "the PvP Community" got a War System that excludes them from Reploss and MC so they can PvP all day within each other - like a soft way to have consensual PVP.
And while the non-consneual PvP has consequences and need to be toned down for the compromise, everybody can still choose to do so.

imho there need to me some more consequencies.
If you priestcamp in JC for example the NPC's shouldn't interact with you, while not having Anam Sith Guards, the NPC could refuse to trade with someone with a bad reputation and killing people in front of their eyes.

I want open PvP, i can deal with PK's around, but they allways overtress it and have zero empathy for their fellow players, it's allways only "the PvP Community" and we want this and that and we give a fuck about PvE Noobs and Carebears.
Well this way a lot of games and communities become toxic and dont make it in the long run.

 

[Wyndorn]

Gladiator said:


Most people play this game in order to pvp right?

questionable, imho it's wrong, bc
most people i meet outside of cities are gathering, pve or smth. like that and dont fight each other or attack me.

Yeah, I think the idea that people only play to pvp is a really limited perspective. I enjoy pvp, but it is absolutely not my main reason to play this game. I want to be immersed in a realistic fantasy world with a pvp ruleset.

 

[Rhias]

The requirement to have a stronghold or a own Spiritist (which needs to be online as the same time as you are) basically means that the smaller PVP/bandit like guilds will disband and join one of the larger zerkling builds .
The result? More zerks, less smaller groups to fight, the PVPers growing bored and more noobs will die.

 

[Gladiator]

You guys are missing the point altogether, it doesnt matter that there are systems in place to punish murderers, its 100% fine to punish murderers, its when you implement these changes with no notice, and when you put artificial blocks to PVP that make absolutely no sense that there is a problem.

I never said there shouldn't be a punishment system for committing crimes, but guards patrolling around roads is more than enough...
Walking for 30-50 minutes is retarded, absolutely retarded, if you ever tell an outsider that this is a game mechanic they will call your game shit. And it is.... shit...

 

[Gladiator]

You could try to recruit a rez spiritist to your guild, problem solved.
Edit: While I do agree that the moving of red priests is a obvious problem in your situation, getting compensation(reset rep) would open flood gates for anyone who has been "fucked over" by changes. The solution to your problem is simple, rez spiritist.

And no, recruiting a spiritist is not a solution. Its a bandaid to a real problem. Ok you recruit a spiritist, he's not going to be online 24/7, he has a life, what if you want to play without him? What if your group is small enough that you dont want another person? So you're telling me that without either paying 3000 gold (which the average player does not have) or playing in a large group, i cannot play the game as a criminal? Then its not the players' fault, the game is bad. period.

 

[grendel]

And no, recruiting a spiritist is not a solution. Its a bandaid to a real problem. Ok you recruit a spiritist, he's not going to be online 24/7, he has a life, what if you want to play without him? What if your group is small enough that you dont want another person? So you're telling me that without either paying 3000 gold (which the average player does not have) or playing in a large group, i cannot play the game as a criminal? Then its not the players' fault, the game is bad. period.

We can quickly agree that it is not so nice to make changes that affect housing(red priest locations) after houses are built.
But, in this situation, you are complaining about a house basicly on the doorsteps on Tindrem. Make another cheap little house closer to a priest. No need to run naked anymore and you can still roam the noob area in front of Tindrem. Your only loss is the time and mats for your old house.. and then of course that you can no longer hide in your house whenever you have a problem.
FYI it does not cost you 3k gold to make a rez mage. It cost you a handfull golds for broker spiritboxes and alot of time casting spells to lvl spiritism.

I understand the frustration about the change after you built the house(and I would also like a few red priest here and there), but come on, how easy do you want it to be a brigand.

 

[grendel]

The requirement to have a stronghold or a own Spiritist (which needs to be online as the same time as you are) basically means that the smaller PVP/bandit like guilds will disband and join one of the larger zerkling builds .
The result? More zerks, less smaller groups to fight, the PVPers growing bored and more noobs will die.

This is a very good argument for a few red priest here and there.

 

[KRANKONE HSLER]

Some time ago me and my friend created a guild, the Cowardly Knights.
A few weeks ago we decided it is time to build a house for storage, move all our belongings to the house and live the life of bandits.
While this is all fine and dandy, the following game updates happened :

1. The closest red priests to cities were removed.
- This means that dying next to a city meant a 10-15 minutes run depending on whether you find a horse or not. This is borderline acceptable and a pain in the ass but we grit and beared with it.

2. The red priests at Castles were also removed lated
- This meant that without spending 2500 gold + 500 gold + resources +upkeep to build a stronghold and hire a priest you are looking at about a 20-25 minutes walk / ride back to base.

While I do understand that there should be penalties for criminals, this is not a penalty. It's an artificial loss.
I don't really care about loot, Im actually more accustomed to playing games like Wurm Online, in which losing your gearset meant losing 100 real life dollars.
I would love for gear to be more valuable, I think losing gear is a good thing.

What i think is unnacceptable is artifically adding a half an hour pause in between being able to go PVP again. Why?
Most people play this game in order to pvp right? Thats the whole point. If we wanted to play a game with story, PVE dungeons, roleplay etc, we would play WoW or FFXIV or ESO, or some other game that excells in those regards much more.

What is more, these changes came without a notice.
One day you're fine, the next you realize if you die you get to spend the next 30 minutes coming back and regearing.
30 minutes. Some people can only play for 2-3 hours because they have school, jobs, family, imagine spending half of your gaming time running back naked.

This was a tutorial on how to alienate your PVP community step by step presented by yours trully, StarVault.

They need to make it like in darfall. A horse can be turned into "a horse figurine", would weight about 20-30% of your carry weight and you can spawn it like a pokemon!
Make reds RED again, homepriest spawning as ghost disabled instead a recall function like 2 mins cast time uberloud, which you can use when losing your horse in the middle of nowhere to get back to anything really.

ANG showing how they fail since ´97