Haven needs limits

[Amadman]

Not sure if the last patch made it where you now are required to actually have the lores to get the mats again.

It seems like that would slow the whole make a new character thing down once skill gains go back to normal.

Especially if the vendor for waterstone lore is not made available in Haven.

 

[Suttner]

Yeah. WAY more of a pain in the butt. Assuming the character creation process is a minute and walk time is a minute it's 2 minutes active player processing time per load. Mining can be done semi-afk with a 1s pick and its only seconds to run from rock to rock. Your losses when you die are minimal unless you're doing a high risk / long distance run. (So not granum)

If you're running the multicompter / multibox setup you're describing, you COULD multibox two miner accounts with minimal player input.

Or you could run this convoluted ridiculous system your describing. If you want to do it, do it. I have zero issues with people doing it.

the only difference between doing what you descibed in haven or the real world:

no danger at all and instant transports to everywhere on the map.

Or have you calculated the time it takes to transport a whole inventory load of stuff from Fabernum to Bakti (to use their more efficient appliances)?
that alone certainly makes up for the 2 minutes (a bit much, takes me 15 secs to make a char and if im slow 10 secs to walk to the pillars) or even imaginary 20 minutes
Especially now that you cant ride overloaded (or should not be able to at least ^^)
But even then just one death on any of your runs, makes up for (at a rediculous 2 mins each) at least 10 transports (just time wise).

I'm starting to doubt you ever done any mining in a fully populated world... its certainly not as easy/risk free and quick as you describe it. And not even remotely comparable to the safety of Haven ^^

 

[Kaemik]

the only difference between doing what you descibed in haven or the real world:

no danger at all and instant transports to everywhere on the map.

Or have you calculated the time it takes to transport a whole inventory load of stuff from Fabernum to Bakti (to use their more efficient appliances)?
that alone certainly makes up for the 2 minutes (a bit much, takes me 15 secs to make a char and if im slow 10 secs to walk to the pillars) or even imaginary 20 minutes
Especially now that you cant ride overloaded (or should not be able to at least ^^)
But even then just one death on any of your runs, makes up for (at a rediculous 2 mins each) at least 10 transports (just time wise).

I'm starting to doubt you ever done any mining in a fully populated world... its certainly not as easy/risk free and quick as you describe it. And not even remotely comparable to the safety of Haven ^^

Keep in mind stress test isn't "fully populated". It's overpopulated. A good portion of the players here right now won't be here when it requires a 39$ investment followed by 15$ a month.

And Fabernum is the absolute worst place to mine for granum if you don't live there given it's where all the gankers have been going. PM me if you need info on where you can semi-afk mine. I'm not going to spill the beans in the public forum, but suffice to say there are places you can mine relatively safely, and they aren't Fabernuum.

As for transportation. Sure moving an inventory load takes a lot right now. Did you play MO1 when saddlebags were in though? One donkey can move A LOT of stuff. Also, I did do a considerable amount of semi-AFK mining/woodcutting in MO1, and it wasn't at all hard. Even around Fabernum.

A system as you describe of making an entire steam account dedicated to remaking characters to moving goods on top of a dedicated character living in Fab to do the mining. It's more of a pain of the butt than is worthwhile. Even now for the most part. Certainly once stress test ends and we have saddlebags.

 

[Kaemik]

The legitimate issue is:

We can move 50 stacks of items to the mainland and withdraw it as we want anywhere in the game world on a single account. Some of the resources (particularly greywood and dapplewood) have some very good crafting uses and aren't available in all areas of the map. So you can withdraw them places that are not usually available in huge quantities disrupting trade.

Plus the available bank space makes mass refinement easy as you can clear out your inventory of everything but picks and spend hours mining, refining, and banking what you refine, then pulling stacks for secondary and tertiary refinement. This isn't needed to show a newb how it works.

With 50 stacks of items, it just makes sense to leave your alts in haven until you completely fill your bank space then move them out.

THIS is a real problem. THIS needs a real solution. THIS has the rather simple solution of removing banks from Haven.

"Someone might be able to move inventory loads of goods using 2 additional accounts if they do a triple backflip through a trapeze on Friday" is not a real problem. Newbs deserve to be able to take the cheap gear they earn in Haven with them, and irrational fears shouldn't be allowed to hurt their experience by denying them this.

________

Whatever the case, this debate seems mostly pointless. They seem to be using Haven to relieve pressure on the mainland so that newb spawns don't get entirely overrun. They clearly have ZERO interest in making Haven entirely useless. I think my solution is a bit extreme for what they seem to be intent on doing. I don't think there is any chance they're going to gut Haven entirely and make it so you can't even bring your set of starter armor with you.

 

[Amadman]

With all of the concerns posted about this, I was very surprised to find they had chosen to have haven banks accessible everywhere.

I do kind of get it because players could go anywhere when leaving so where else would it be fair to go.


Personally though, I think the solution is to limit players leaving to what they can carry without being incombered.

It should just be made clear on the way out that everything else will be left behind other than what they have on them.


With this type of setup players could still build up some skill , basic gear and even a bit of gold to get them a jump start in the real world.

But there would be less of an incentive for players to use haven long term to gain resources and such.

 

[Suttner]

The legitimate issue is:

We can move 50 stacks of items to the mainland and withdraw it as we want anywhere in the game world on a single account. Some of the resources (particularly greywood and dapplewood) have some very good crafting uses and aren't available in all areas of the map. So you can withdraw them places that are not usually available in huge quantities disrupting trade.

Plus the available bank space makes mass refinement easy as you can clear out your inventory of everything but picks and spend hours mining, refining, and banking what you refine, then pulling stacks for secondary and tertiary refinement. This isn't needed to show a newb how it works.

With 50 stacks of items, it just makes sense to leave your alts in haven until you completely fill your bank space then move them out.

THIS is a real problem. THIS needs a real solution. THIS has the rather simple solution of removing banks from Haven.

I can agree on that ^^

The whole semi-afk mining in MO1 (from your previous post) was just viable due to the low (too low) population, wasnt a thing in the beginning/open beta.
If MO2 is decently populated that wont a thing. Well, at least not with saddle bags etc.

In the future sure...

How about you can take everything on your char till overencoumbered from haven and no banks?
Wouldnt that be the best of both world? Still able to take enough with you to start off well. Not enough to be abused.


And somewhat realistic when considering we're leaving an island to travel to another continent (lore wise).

 

[Belteyn]

I'm a new player that wants a game that supports trading across the map, so I think it's perfectly reasonable not to be able to take anything from Haven to main map, except maybe what you can carry. Haven should be a few hours to learn some basic stuff in safety, not farming.

 

[Kaemik]

Over the past day I've mined 100k+ ore naked with a pick in the mainland. I've died once, losing a pick and 7k ore. That puts the threat of ganking at less than a 10% efficiency reduction during a stress test with zero protection in neutral territory. I've also successfully refined nearly all of that ore with zero loss from ganking. My only losses in refining thus far were from a server crash and Haven has zero ability to protect me from that.

Infact the largest threat encountered was shields shove griefers at the extraction tables which also exist in Haven.

I consider this proof positive that being able to carry your inventory is of no threat to the economy if they remove the bank.

Mind you I am no spring chicken to these types of games and I know how to do these types of things fairly efficiently. But if some fresh newb wants to rig up two accounts to be less efficient than my one miner alt, then I could really care less.

 

[Suttner]

I remind you again that your test was only viable due to "abusing" the overweight on horse bug.

Or did you do all this on foot?

 

[Kaemik]

I remind you again that your test was only viable due to "abusing" the overweight on horse bug.

Or did you do all this on foot?

Blainn miner alt on foot. She can carry over 10k ore per trip with minimal encumbrance. The rocks she was hitting were less than 1 minute from extraction so with current pathing a horse would have only slowed her down. Also saddlebags are stronger than the overweight bug. You could carry a lot more with a pack donkey in MO1 than the overweight bug in MO2.

 

[Najwalaylah]

I moved from haven today with 3 stack of pigsteel. No one killed me. No one stoped me. I had coal and didnt loose much on the way. Pick some seadews too.

I have enough mats for a couple hundred golds if i wasnt in beta. Dont let people take stuff from haven. Im rich at no risk. If more time... I could buy a keep from haven. Taking any stuff out is going to break the game.

It occurs to me that you're lucky, on top of any other argument. Do you think others will be as lucky when beta is over? Everything that people do not bring 'down' from Haven is also loot that no-one in the rest of the game world has a chance to take from the bringer.

 

[LilLordFontleroy]

Yeah there needs to be an item limit or something in the haven bank. Only a certain amount of gold allowed, only a certain amount of stacks of ore, etc. I just figure they haven't tightened Haven up yet, but will for release. If they don't that's obviously a glaring mistake that will be highly exploited.

 

[Valoran]

After they fix the no-catalyst-required-for-full-yield bug, do you realise just how long it would take to make those three stacks of pig iron on haven with no calx and only a few chunks of coal on the ground (Which should honestly be removed)?

If a new (or extremely risk averse) player wants to spend two weeks mining every day just to make a tiny amount of metal that someone on Myrland could make in a single day they can be my guest. The idea that this would impact the game economy in any way is laughable.

The suggestion to remove the bank entirely would be extremely annoying for a new player as they would not be able to process any meaningful amount of material at all. Even butchering one pig carcass would make them almost completely encumbered.

I do however see a reduction in bank space on Haven being reasonable, as there's really no reason a new player would need all 50 slots, and especially no bags eventually. A reduction to around 25 slots should be sufficient.