Graveyard PvP

[Turbizzler]

While GY griefing or "PvP" is scummy, it's also a learning ground for greenhorns. It's where they learn to assert their dominance over their shit(Heads) if they want to make some coin. It's a place they'll learn the basics to PvP and flagging, and they get exposed to the harsh reality of life outside of Tindrem square. It sort of prepares them for the inevitable of no where is safe under the right circumstances.

 

[Backyard Employee]

OP is 100% right.

I still believe once you leave Haven, there should be NPC's in town that provide small tasks like that of the Parcel Master which gives noobs a bit of money, reputation, and materials.

Otherwise you're just going to have people get camped in the graveyards.

 

[Backyard Employee]

While GY griefing or "PvP" is scummy, it's also a learning ground for greenhorns. It's where they learn to assert their dominance over their shit(Heads) if they want to make some coin. It's a place they'll learn the basics to PvP and flagging, and they get exposed to the harsh reality of life outside of Tindrem square. It sort of prepares them for the inevitable of no where is safe under the right circumstances.

I learned this way. But it also stifled me early on because I didn't know where else to go, or what else to do.

Fuck. I even know of some players who quite literally started in Tindrem, then never left. Why would you in MO1? It always had people, it had bandits, scoundrels, walkers, pigs, sewer rats (and the bosses), the bandit leader (can't remember his name.. maroz?) there was even wood and stone nodes (different types).

I feel bad for people because the haven in MO1 was 100x times better in my opinion. It had proper dungeons, a little quest line to follow, whilst also still teaching players and giving them a sense of exploration. There was even a PvP zone on it. The Haven now is basically spawn, run to the graveyard, kill walkers for clade gifts, hit dummies to train skills / attributes, read books, then TP out.

Sure the rest of the tutorial teaches *some* things but it really isn't a fun experience.

I highly suggest anyone who hasn't played MO1, to go install it (it's free anyway) and play on the Haven they have there and compare it to MO2's Haven. You'll notice the difference almost immediately.

 

[PoisonArrows]

The problem is the Devs refuse to put anything else solo related in the game. Leashing has made this issue worse, with mobs now healing and running away. I used to tell Noobs to go from Graveyard to Bandits. Now all they have is graveyard because bandits are too strong for noobs to fight.

I have often thought about this as well, because if you want other content the game basically forces you to join a guild. Because almost all other content is group content. But our community is so small that I think leashing of bosses shouldn't be in game. You should be able to lower their hp bit, by bit. Otherwise, noobs really are forced into joining guilds for content lmao.

There has even been reviews of this game by other people like Josh Sykes or whatever his name is, he didn't like the game and said it sucks. He said the gameplay loop was basically "Kill Zombies in Graveyard, for gold to buy books for better items and then die and go to graveyard again" Ultimately, I couldn't argue as that is basically mortal online... Bosses are unobtainable content by 99% of the player base unless you are in a giant Zerg guild. Rest of your game play might as well be cutting trees, picking rocks, or fishing. That's more or less why all I do is PvP when I play, because there is nothing else enjoyable to do in game and Task didn't give us anything to do.

 

[Emdash]

I learned this way. But it also stifled me early on because I didn't know where else to go, or what else to do.

Fuck. I even know of some players who quite literally started in Tindrem, then never left. Why would you in MO1? It always had people, it had bandits, scoundrels, walkers, pigs, sewer rats (and the bosses), the bandit leader (can't remember his name.. maroz?) there was even wood and stone nodes (different types).

I feel bad for people because the haven in MO1 was 100x times better in my opinion. It had proper dungeons, a little quest line to follow, whilst also still teaching players and giving them a sense of exploration. There was even a PvP zone on it. The Haven now is basically spawn, run to the graveyard, kill walkers for clade gifts, hit dummies to train skills / attributes, read books, then TP out.

Sure the rest of the tutorial teaches *some* things but it really isn't a fun experience.

I highly suggest anyone who hasn't played MO1, to go install it (it's free anyway) and play on the Haven they have there and compare it to MO2's Haven. You'll notice the difference almost immediately.

I had a feeling you were an RPK dood, but y'know what mane I went in w/ the opposite idea. I was like yea I'm good on pvp for now because I wanna get into crafting (and you had to spec full craft as we knowwww), so I made all my money doing other shit. However, when it came time for pvp, I was pretty anxious about it. I had definitely skipped steps, and while I wanted to go out roaming in armor, and dudes I knew were like nah we need to at least wear steel. But it's like hey, I have v little pvp experience outside of just fighting randos, I know i'm just gonna be feeding someone until I figure it out. So, this time, I was like ah I'm never going into a game w/ that mindset again.

I think getting used to killing and dying is essential and if you can't tame a horse, make a bag, and mine/gather, you are failing essentially in growth. There is no rule that says the GY is good money cuz it's not. Like I said I'd pick nubs straight out of tindrem and pay them out the ass to gather for me. It's like U WANT TO MAKE REAL MONEY?? @Golgotha was all into exploiting nubs for cheap gathers ahaha , but I had fun boosting them, but still... if you go into the game and master survival and get gains, you are gonna have to pvp at some time (even if it's just when you get bored of being a master crafter.) Most of dudes I knew quit cuz they didn't wanna learn pvp in shit gear (my idea, like mola w/ steel wep), cuz they didn't wanna have a disadvantage, but again, that's not what MO is about. MO isn't a survival game but scraping your way along is a legit play style. You can get your FG/FG from pigs, get your Emalji wep from either walkers or pigs and then just keep farming/fighting while clading up.

I'm sad they took out my fav system, but I can still enjoy the memey pvp in MO. Or the 'core ideas' of pvp, making friends, etc. Right now, that's about all the game has going for it anyway. It's not like I don't understand pvp, I just I needed a lot more experience in execution and it was harder to get once you rose up to the level that all your friends were in tung or regs steel if they were playing 'throw away.' It's like woah woah lemme at least get used to the feeling before I put anything up like that. Cuz I got massive rekt by a few people in MO, and I kinda knew that was a high probability. That and I had established myself as someone who wouldn't kill people (I still think it's wack to kill people, but I can enjoy the sport of it. I hope people don't get in their feelings thoo. If you wanna go full on psychological warfare yakno.)

So, there are two sides.

 

[Shadowmist]

Maybe the reason so many are in the GY is because its the closest place they can "fight-farm" for gold. It doesn't have to be good money, because making a little bit of money and banking it is better than leaving town for the big bucks only to ge RPK:ed on the way home.

People still get murdered in the GY, but its easier to swallow going in naked with a flake weapon and losing 15 heads, than it is gearing up fully, travelling and then losing it all.

I agree there needs to be an inbetween humanoid opponent between walkers and bandits, and I also think, and this is going to be controversial AF, that the RPK penalties should be harsher so people dare venture into the world.
You "pvpers" are sad nobody leaves the GY so you have to go there to kill them, when in fact you are the problem in the first place.
Of course people dont dare to leave towns further than graveyards when its like 95% certain they will get murdered if they do.

 

[Backyard Employee]

This problem would probably also be mitigated if there were more creatures in the world.

Pissed me off when Henrik said "just go find them!!" as if he also forgot making the map six times larger was key to spreading out the supposed 20k mobs they spawned.

 

[Belegar]

Let other monsters also give Exp. This will solve a lot of problems.

 

[Backyard Employee]

Let other monsters also give Exp. This will solve a lot of problems.

Clade gift experience?

 

[Belegar]

Well yes. Is there another form of Exp in MO2 that I'm Missing?

 

[finegamingconnoisseur]

Well yes. Is there another form of Exp in MO2 that I'm Missing?

Skill increases could be considered a form of exp. If you open your skills window you'll see that every skill has an exp-like bar that fills up, and then your skill increases.

 

[PoisonArrows]

This problem would probably also be mitigated if there were more creatures in the world.

Pissed me off when Henrik said "just go find them!!" as if he also forgot making the map six times larger was key to spreading out the supposed 20k mobs they spawned.

20k Mobs they spawned? Did Henrik actually say that on one of his streams? If you count everything in the game including the Pigs, Springbok and skeletons, I think we might have a case to say we have 1000 creatures in the game but that is really pushing it lmao. No chance in hell we have 20k Mobs.

 

[Tzone]

The only type of PvP you get reasonably is PvP outside of towns. People want to get PvP in quick repeatable manner.
Towns are the only place to really find people with out luck. GY is the only near by content outside of town that you will find people at.

Its not enjoyable content to roam on horseback and end up having to mounted fight another player for your PvP needs. You might not see another person for hours or when you do its mounted, or a group of mounted.
Sewers is another example, people go to Tindrem and not to the GY to try to find PvP in the sewers. Issue is that the PvP isnt that good, you find usually small groups of noobs 9 out of 10 times to fight when you get a fight. sewers is a step in the right direction.

Another issue is the lack of content, mainly solo content. If you are bored and by your self the only real content worth while is ratting around a town trying to get fights. If high tier endgame PvE was solo able then you would get less bored people sticking around towns to find content.




In the past people would sit on bridge around fab and ignore most noobs allowing them to go to GY because it wasn't efficient use of rep. But now with people being forced to stat neg rep, noobs are less protected by the rep system.

from what I notice is that people give bad changes a patch to see if they are fixed or undone before changing the way they play. People usually dont complain till they are let down by the following patch. So initial impressions and data will change after the following patch based on what SV does.
I dont believe the new system is currently helping anyone and just makes the issue of needing to be at a town to find PvP more problematic.

 

[Emdash]

You "pvpers" are sad nobody leaves the GY so you have to go there to kill them, when in fact you are the problem in the first place.

I don't get murdered. haha, I try to not even think about it as murder, but I don't really get killed that much going around, even in MO1. Sometimes people attempt to go after you, but you can escape. Sometimes you run into a bad situation like 5 MAs or something. I don't think anyone is sad nobody leaves the graveyard because, as I said, I LOVE IT to go somewhere and SEE PEOPLE. I'm cool with being like hey need a sword and making someone a sword or w/e when they are using a shortie or a 1g wep. It's HUMAN INTERACTION WOW. Stop being afraid of people in this game. If someone comes in and starts fighting then fight them. They are probably just bored. They aren't getting gainz.

That's one of the reason I have a hard time actually killing and looting people because it's like I know I could get what they have prol much easier than they did, so it's not really fair. But people in the GY taking your heads might be playing mind games, but you gotta learn somehow to deal with it. If you keep going back they will probably stop fighting you, or you get a little pvp battle going in, sometimes someone jumps on the other side. That's what I dislike about Bakti is sometimes I'd like to jump on the other side cuz it's not even, but then everyone would be like EMDASH IS A PKER NOW. It's like ah I thought we were just having fun. Like when I walk into the bank and there are a bunch of people there and I say "Let's do some group fights!!" and nobody responds haha.

There are some real dickhead people in MO, no doubt, but in general it's not what you think, and to a lot of people it's a persona. It's an interesting psychological experience to deal with people in a sandbox, and in a way... that's what I like, that and mathy systems (of which there aren't cept alchemy which is zz gathering salvia,) plus it's already completely figured out, supposedly. But that's kinda the whole idea, to me, of a MMO is player interaction and since you can talk when you are dead (which is kinda a hack imo), you can be like... y u kill me tho? I mean actually start a conversation with these people. Most of them would be like ey bored tbh. Then you can be like oya brb lemme go to bank and I'm comin for ya. And you end up making a friend, even if they smash you over and over haha. That's why I dislike the rep system, too, cuz you can't do that as easily out of your own hometown. Ble.

If you really distance yourself from 'ego', I mean bears are not murderers but they've killed me way more than players have lool. You go out on foot, like esp back when they had excessive stacking and you could get an aggro that was just rip level if you're not paying attention. People are just people, and some of them like to present themselves as a really hard psychopath or whatever, but it's just a joke. They might really think that, but it's actually a joke like "lol." There are some real gems tho out there, few and far between, but again, I am interested in delving into those people's minds, too. In general, most are normal doods. Don't take it as an instant affront when someone attacks you or kills you. If they are supposed to be a friendly then you can be like y u kill me I'm a citizen! or if they aren't, you can be like oh so that's how it is. The GY is basically for pvp when you boil it down, it's where to learn to PvP, learn to zerg, learn to run away until your flag turns blue again. All the little griefy exploits are learned in the GY. There's no reason to shit on those people. Plus if you get their gear, you probably end up with a better haul than you would from zombies.

But yea people who are in the GY are just like mehhh waiting for something to happen, the ones of us who aren't true nubs, and you can tell who the tru nubs are, and I like to try to give them some form of gear so that they can at least increase their kill rate. I don't have any ulterior motives, I just want people to enjoy the game for what it actually is. There's nothing WRONG with pvp, but I personally don't feel good killing people, esp when it turns out they have a lot on them. It's like oh shit, now I feel bad cuz I just took this dudes life savings when I thought I was just gonna have a fun encounter. I mean I'M NOT GONNA LEAVE IT ON THE GROUND YAKNOW.

Some people have accepted dog eat dog and pvp whenever, but most of us aren't like that. Even the people who say they are pvpers. They know who else pvps and they are gonna go in on them, but like I said the larger guilds do not (generally) do stuff like grief the GY. There's just not much gain in it. One guy from a guild might come in and then others after if you give him enough problems. It's just basically like a near-town station for some chance of interesting content, and 4real sometimes it's just like man... I don't have the energy to do anything. I'll just throw on some shit gear and clade out and see what happens. And if shit actually starts going down then you can put on whatever you want. The GY is also pretty anti-mounted in a lot of cases, so it's good practice in many ways.

Don't let yourself be a victim. Don't think of murder. Be like "I got caught slipping" or something. It's disrespectful to kill people, especially the way people try to act sometimes after they put you in mercy mode, but o well. lol. It's a competitive game. Even the market is competition.

Also ITS STILL BETA. Might as well get your reps in now.

 

[Tloluvin]

A case in life.
1. Misunderstanding of the mechanics of exiting Haven.
2. Going to the graveyard for a few coins to start.
3. A kill by a player for a shot.
4. No money, no inventory, no options.
5. Quit the game.
6. Negative review on steam.
7. A few players less in the game.

I understand a lot of people like safe pvp. I do not mind. I've seen the same thing in EVE. The constant crying of weak people because they cannot kill the defenseless all the time. Saying it teaches new players anything is a lie. A simple excuse. It is also a lie to call it pvp.
Want a smaller player base? Keep killing new players for no reason at the start. Just stop making excuses that there is a purpose behind it other than healing real life complexes, and stop crying that something is limiting you to safe pvp.

 

[Tashka]

Reading topics like this, I have the impression that many people forget that they are playing in a sandbox and not in CS or WoT. If someone wants to kill everyone everywhere, then the sandbox is not a game for him. The sandbox is not a game of murder. PvP is not the most important thing. PvP is just one part of the world. If someone wants to murder, let him murder, but let the murderer remember about the consequences depending on the place and the victim. The question of whether players should kill or not is wrong. The real question is whether city officials want city citizens to be safe in the city or not. If they want what they will do to achieve it. Maybe they'll hire more guards in the area where more murderers show up? Maybe they will banish the murderers from the city forever? Maybe they'll give a reward for the murderer's head? Maybe they will do something else?

And maybe it all should be in the hands of players and not some NPCs. Because it's a sandbox but you want all the sand castles built for you by the sandbox designer. But that wouldn't be a sandbox anymore, it would be theme park instead, wouldn't it?

 

[finegamingconnoisseur]

The graveyard is a microcosm of what the new player will inevitably face out there in the vast wilderness where no one will hear them scream if they were to encounter player bandits. In many respects, it will be far more punishing and harsh out in the wilderness compared to the graveyard where things are at least semi-predictable and there is a town nearby to run to if things go south.

If anything, the graveyard reveals how the new player responds to setbacks and challenges that come their way. They can either rage-quit on the spot, or they can take a step back and think what can they do about it, and what could they have done differently in future.

It is up to the noble and altruistic-minded players to set up defensive perimeters and organise an effective standing army to counter the player bandits. That is how true heroes in mmorpgs of yesteryear were made, if there is no villain there can be no hero.

Whatever motive the said player bandits may have for prowling the graveyard in search of easy prey is irrelevant. What is relevant is what the players themselves will do to fight back and take back what is theirs, the solution is in their hands. It comes down to whether or not they have the resolve and fortitude to do so.

 

[SilentPony]

A case in life.
1. Misunderstanding of the mechanics of exiting Haven.
2. Going to the graveyard for a few coins to start.
3. A kill by a player for a shot.
4. No money, no inventory, no options.
5. Quit the game.
6. Negative review on steam.
7. A few players less in the game.

I understand a lot of people like safe pvp. I do not mind. I've seen the same thing in EVE. The constant crying of weak people because they cannot kill the defenseless all the time. Saying it teaches new players anything is a lie. A simple excuse. It is also a lie to call it pvp.
Want a smaller player base? Keep killing new players for no reason at the start. Just stop making excuses that there is a purpose behind it other than healing real life complexes, and stop crying that something is limiting you to safe pvp.

There are options. Gather flowers or vegetables, sell to the vendor, get a weapon or tools, go hunting / graveyarding / bandit killing / mining. Just need to stop for a moment and think what can be done. Or ask other players.

 

[Emdash]

And maybe it all should be in the hands of players and not some NPCs. Because it's a sandbox but you want all the sand castles built for you by the sandbox designer. But that wouldn't be a sandbox anymore, it would be theme park instead, wouldn't it?

Ye, I don't like how people build their arguments on this forum."Then the sandbox is not a game for him." I assure you it is a game as it is for everyone. If it is ever not a game you are about to get DROPPED OFF HARD to use some netslang. The only people who say it ain't a game are joking. Look at my punching Diph video. haha. It is most certainly A GAME.

I also feel like everyone should go to the GY. If you have gear, put on some semblance of gear and go to the GY. Just farm a lil. If there are doods lurking in the shadows, they will come out. People will start to recognize you and you them, you can help the new players. I was in the GY in duli w/ Miscreants (before Thymyrical... well long story), and was just kinda hitting mobs. I came up to a new guy and he was walking like SUPER SUPER SLOW. Like he had full heads but he was going IN, and I was like hey hey hey... I got your back, and he was still playing wayyy behind me and sneaked around me; I think he figured it out. Came up to two DWARRRVES(sp?) farming and they both looked at me with their weps out and I said peace, they said peace. People are worried about policing the GY and such, but I mean if shit goes down and it's me and some nub or even just me, we're probably gonna get rekt. Still, it's a totally different experience, a sort of fun growth... disassociate from the feeling of being a victim and being murdered, etc, and FIGHT.

Honestly, I've been having schizophrenic thoughts about how MO is set up. It's a sandbox, but it's actually a thought box, like a world. All these guild leaders are like cult leaders, the big ones. They want things a certain way, even if they are ARPK or RPK. They might even work together or have a passive NAP. Cuz the people getting picked off are nubs not the guilded ones. So, it's kind of like people are farming nubs into guilds. Then the guilds are, if you wanna be really cynical, exploiting their fear and lack of knowledge. And this is starting AT THE GY LEVEL. That's why I think it's good to go into the GY and meet people. Just like I used to enjoy going to Tin and meeting people, see what everyone's doing. You can tell who is going hard. Sometimes a few moments can change someone uninstalling and someone becoming a serious player. In general, if people aren't doing the work they want them to, nobody cares if they are going hard. That's why people grief nubs out of the game. They want their control of the minds of everyone who lives in fear or in desire to oppress in MO. That's why if you get in there and like enlighten these kids like... hey it's not like that, do what you wanna do, it'll all come around you. It might take a little longer, once people know you, I mean you can get 75% of the gains of being in a guild and 10% of the responsibility, if that, haha.

Gotta actualize these doods and help them realize they are IMMORTALS as well. Shout out to Highlander forumguy. Cept we all are. The only people who quit forget that. If you fuck w/ the game, you should continue to play no matter how people treat you. I mean even some of the hits you can get on zombies in GY, heads from upward swing arcs behind you, it really shows how much is possible w/ this combat system. Zergs are gonna win, but they zerg cuz that's all they wanna do... win, they don't want any interesting experience. Losing gear sucks but gear is easier to get than ever imo, and matters less!

If you can't feel relatively safe in your own GY, you're never gonna feel safe anywhere and you are bound to not have an enjoyable exp in MO. If you die oh well. Strangely it seems the less you care about dying, the less you die. Remem tho, sandbox isn't a free world IN GAME it is a free world IN MIND and that's why WALLS n shite and bad systems (like REP) are aggravating because it's like you're putting artifacts in MY BRAIN.

 

[Tzone]

A case in life.
1. Misunderstanding of the mechanics of exiting Haven.
2. Going to the graveyard for a few coins to start.
3. A kill by a player for a shot.
4. No money, no inventory, no options.
5. Quit the game.
6. Negative review on steam.
7. A few players less in the game.

I understand a lot of people like safe pvp. I do not mind. I've seen the same thing in EVE. The constant crying of weak people because they cannot kill the defenseless all the time. Saying it teaches new players anything is a lie. A simple excuse. It is also a lie to call it pvp.
Want a smaller player base? Keep killing new players for no reason at the start. Just stop making excuses that there is a purpose behind it other than healing real life complexes, and stop crying that something is limiting you to safe pvp.

If they quit and cry because they died in graveyard then they will quit and cry when they die to players at bandits or dungeons or risars or on the road. They dont have the mentality for a OW PvP game and will quit anyways. Its not that they died in GY its because they died.
You still have people who have been playing for months complaining about "RPKers" killing them. They wont suddenly stop thinking that PvP isnt bad or evil because they are somewhere else.

Do you want less of a game but more players or less players and more of a game.