Give Humans Alternative Profession Points:

[Emdash]

Just like they have versatile +50 (they could even do this on both sides hue,) let their + to profession also include, let's say, 500 points that are 'alternative' primary points, that you can spec into something, but you can only spec a total of max at once. So, you can change your build on a whim.

Humans weren't meant to be the best fighters, but adding in something like that could make them a very interesting race, and it would help nubs, too. WOW.

THEN you can fix their attributes.

 

[Jatix]

Honestly humans are good how they are, alv are just overtuned. Human mages have more mana and regen better in heavier armor. They have more damage bonus as hybrids, short or tall. They have more mana and better regen than Alv hybrids. The yare kidna shit fighters but thats the entire point in rolling thursar, so its kidna fair that humans are worse full fighters. Humans are the best crafters because the +points are amazing and you can fit way more than other races.

The issue is this is all kidna pointless when Alv can pop a clade gift and get away for free, or chase easily and human cant run if they arent winning. If alv werent so insanely overly fast, with assorted aids clade gifts (combat jump, 1 bow str gifts when they should only have 1) a lot of people would prob decide to roll human for the other benefits. Right now the speed just outweighs all of the benefits human get for combat.

 

[Highlander]

the game is filled with alvarins fighters and mages that just run away, ofc humans are so rare, alva fatmages run faster lol

 

[Emdash]

Honestly humans are good how they are, alv are just overtuned. Human mages have more mana and regen better in heavier armor. They have more damage bonus as hybrids, short or tall. They have more mana and better regen than Alv hybrids. The yare kidna shit fighters but thats the entire point in rolling thursar, so its kidna fair that humans are worse full fighters. Humans are the best crafters because the +points are amazing and you can fit way more than other races.

The issue is this is all kidna pointless when Alv can pop a clade gift and get away for free, or chase easily and human cant run if they arent winning. If alv werent so insanely overly fast, with assorted aids clade gifts (combat jump, 1 bow str gifts when they should only have 1) a lot of people would prob decide to roll human for the other benefits. Right now the speed just outweighs all of the benefits human get for combat.

yeah but without that speed or some ability to gain more from spells, which they don't really have unless you wanna go SID, they are still semi-trash. My PoV is if they had respec points for crafting, they could do a lot more, but never be overspecced, just have 'memory points,' cuz they are already scholastic and respeccing should be way easier, esp when you got 100 in secondaries haha.

The action thing is harder. Obviously, to change your build... you couldn't just do it in the middle of the battle, but being able to spec hard foot, hard mounted, hybrid etc... I think that might not be TOO OP.

As for alv being overtuned... I mean, they are good for what you do. They are good for what I do. In siege, they will have diff roles. I don't think Alv and Ogh are overtuned. I think that's 'the game.' To retreat to a bball comparison, they have always felt in bball video games that 'inside scoring/dunking' is too prevalent, but now everyone is making 3 pointers... which are worth more than 2 pointers, and at a high rate. Thus, it makes you have to rethink the 'should inside scoring/dunking be blanket nerfed' when 60% 2 = 40% 3.

I feel like it's like that... alvs and ogh are in the game. Humans are kinda in the game and they are ok yeah, but they don't have a niche. I'd really like to seem as crafters because a lot of RP/casual people play human and the world needs citizens, too. And having people able to spec their build on and off would be good for nubs, too. If you wanna make them versatile, I think that's closer.

Alv speed is nuts, but it's their defining feature. Their clade and Ogh clade are sooo OP compared to human. The armor wt thing is def cool, though, but it's tough to get a good spread with their atts, and the better player would likely still want the alv unless they were showing off. No matter what your armor is, if people can sticky you as a mage, that's nogud.

"the game is filled with alvarins fighters and mages that just run away, ofc humans are so rare, alva fatmages run faster lol"

^Also, no lie... haha. 250~ speed on a bulging sheev. Can also be like 80 haha.

 

[Midas]

yeah but without that speed or some ability to gain more from spells, which they don't really have unless you wanna go SID, they are still semi-trash. My PoV is if they had respec points for crafting, they could do a lot more, but never be overspecced, just have 'memory points,' cuz they are already scholastic and respeccing should be way easier, esp when you got 100 in secondaries haha.

The action thing is harder. Obviously, to change your build... you couldn't just do it in the middle of the battle, but being able to spec hard foot, hard mounted, hybrid etc... I think that might not be TOO OP.

As for alv being overtuned... I mean, they are good for what you do. They are good for what I do. In siege, they will have diff roles. I don't think Alv and Ogh are overtuned. I think that's 'the game.' To retreat to a bball comparison, they have always felt in bball video games that 'inside scoring/dunking' is too prevalent, but now everyone is making 3 pointers... which are worth more than 2 pointers, and at a high rate. Thus, it makes you have to rethink the 'should inside scoring/dunking be blanket nerfed' when 60% 2 = 40% 3.

I feel like it's like that... alvs and ogh are in the game. Humans are kinda in the game and they are ok yeah, but they don't have a niche. I'd really like to seem as crafters because a lot of RP/casual people play human and the world needs citizens, too. And having people able to spec their build on and off would be good for nubs, too. If you wanna make them versatile, I think that's closer.

Alv speed is nuts, but it's their defining feature. Their clade and Ogh clade are sooo OP compared to human. The armor wt thing is def cool, though, but it's tough to get a good spread with their atts, and the better player would likely still want the alv unless they were showing off. No matter what your armor is, if people can sticky you as a mage, that's nogud.

"the game is filled with alvarins fighters and mages that just run away, ofc humans are so rare, alva fatmages run faster lol"

^Also, no lie... haha. 250~ speed on a bulging sheev. Can also be like 80 haha.

hell nah lmao you wanna make humans just crafters? lmao my hope is that eventually anybody will be able to access other races clade"gifts" through either potions skill or spells so that this whole thing just balances itself out.

 

[Jatix]

yeah but without that speed or some ability to gain more from spells, which they don't really have unless you wanna go SID, they are still semi-trash.
.............
Alv speed is nuts, but it's their defining feature. Their clade and Ogh clade are sooo OP compared to human. The armor wt thing is def cool, though, but it's tough to get a good spread with their atts, and the better player would likely still want the alv unless they were showing off. No matter what your armor is, if people can sticky you as a mage, that's nogud.

"the game is filled with alvarins fighters and mages that just run away, ofc humans are so rare, alva fatmages run faster lol"

^Also, no lie... haha. 250~ speed on a bulging sheev. Can also be like 80 haha.

The issue is alv is way too good at what they are good at, while beign decent at everything else. MO1 Alv were used over human mages while still having less mana. They moved 5 or 7 speed faster (243 or 245, vs 238 human). In MO2 everyone moves faster, but alv are 14-20 faster. The % gap is the same as MO1, but the raw distance you gain over time is bigger. and then you can pop clade gifts that make you go 500. Can combat jump when others cant. Can pull just as good bows as humans (when alv sucked with bows in mo1). Its obvious why everyone is rolling alv. Human dont need a buff, Alv need a nerf. They shouldnt have the huge speed warcry, its a literal joke. Should only have 1 of the 2 bow gifts so they arent better humans with bows. And should only have 1 of the raw movement speed gifts.

 

[Emdash]

The issue is alv is way too good at what they are good at, while beign decent at everything else. MO1 Alv were used over human mages while still having less mana. They moved 5 or 7 speed faster (243 or 245, vs 238 human). In MO2 everyone moves faster, but alv are 14-20 faster. The % gap is the same as MO1, but the raw distance you gain over time is bigger. and then you can pop clade gifts that make you go 500. Can combat jump when others cant. Can pull just as good bows as humans (when alv sucked with bows in mo1). Its obvious why everyone is rolling alv. Human dont need a buff, Alv need a nerf. They shouldnt have the huge speed warcry, its a literal joke. Should only have 1 of the 2 bow gifts so they arent better humans with bows. And should only have 1 of the raw movement speed gifts.

I don't disagree, because I've been saying a lot of that stuff. Resting pulse, combat leap, they are all nuts in terms of how they engage with 'core game balance.' But being able to run away isn't the end-all. It is for someone like me who is roaming dolo and picking fruit, but if you want heavy pvp, your running just means you die last (when imo you should prol die FIRST as a speed char, to try to save others, if you can,) and you don't really have enough dps to peel, either. They have a unique role, which is good. Ogh has a unique role which is good. The problem is the others.

Alv doesn't need to be as boosted, true, but I disagree w/ humans not needing a buff haha. Like I said, look at alv and ogh not as OP things but clades that have been fleshed to be effective and have flavor. Are they OP, of course, but only because the other two clades are strange... you give Thursar a swing speed shout that's GG. You give humans the ability to store primary pts or something similar... that's also GG.

Not everything should be judged on the same plane. I know how good Alv is, but there is a reason I do mounted more often... if you are trolling people 2v1, then yeah it's nice to have alvs. Esp when the zerg comes, but yeah there are def severe limitations of them when it comes to things other than movement. That 500 shout is def suspect, tho. I agree there, for sure. Also the stam of the regular run buff.

But yea you feel very helpless when you watch your slower friends get eaten and can't even save them.

 

[Gnidex]

If humans are supposed to be hybrid clades then they totally need faster weapon to magic switching and vice versa. Right now it's suicide to switch often.

But alas, SV is not competent enough to tweak a few animation speed values without "signifant dev time" to quote Henrik. Nah instead we will give 10% min mana regen that does fuck all even on chonky dudes with 250 mana.

 

[Midas]

If humans are supposed to be hybrid clades then they totally need faster weapon to magic switching and vice versa. Right now it's suicide to switch often.

But alas, SV is not competent enough to tweak a few animation speed values without "signifant dev time" to quote Henrik. Nah instead we will give 10% min mana regen that does fuck all even on chonky dudes with 250 mana.

I really think humans just need to be the best magic class for clades. instead of a ressist active it should be a magic bonus active or both.

 

[Midas]

If humans are supposed to be hybrid clades then they totally need faster weapon to magic switching and vice versa. Right now it's suicide to switch often.

But alas, SV is not competent enough to tweak a few animation speed values without "signifant dev time" to quote Henrik. Nah instead we will give 10% min mana regen that does fuck all even on chonky dudes with 250 mana.

the weapon switching does need some work but for all clades.

 

[Emdash]

I really think humans just need to be the best magic class for clades. instead of a ressist active it should be a magic bonus active or both.

the only problem is they never have been. They were always at 2nd worst heh lucky for thursar. And there are multiple diff types of human. They can rekindle some MO1 builds, but they'd need to tinker w/ how magic worked on humans. Be like if you get 50 ECU on a human you can cast those spells with effective (some curve) intelligence. It needs to be something different because they don't have the highest int, they don't have the highest speed, it's p obv that sheev has always been the main magic class and they even got magic clades as well. There just needs to be A change.

 

[Xronim]

Honestly humans are good how they are, alv are just overtuned. Human mages have more mana and regen better in heavier armor. They have more damage bonus as hybrids, short or tall. They have more mana and better regen than Alv hybrids. The yare kidna shit fighters but thats the entire point in rolling thursar, so its kidna fair that humans are worse full fighters. Humans are the best crafters because the +points are amazing and you can fit way more than other races.

The issue is this is all kidna pointless when Alv can pop a clade gift and get away for free, or chase easily and human cant run if they arent winning. If alv werent so insanely overly fast, with assorted aids clade gifts (combat jump, 1 bow str gifts when they should only have 1) a lot of people would prob decide to roll human for the other benefits. Right now the speed just outweighs all of the benefits human get for combat.

also not to mention the speed difference between an oghmir and a full khurite is extremely minimal, I've tested with friends in the beta and humans have way too little speed and stamina to be mages over alvarin. both alv and oghmir do need nerfs because their gifts make them the current meta picks while humans are more of a niche generalist race that lack powerful clades.

I feel like the stat caps on the humans could use minor tweaking for some of the subraces to make them more viable in certain playstyles and also give players more freedom to play a certain race without gimping themselves hard.

@OP neat idea, would be really interesting to see how that would be like (even if imo sheevra will still be better than tinds and sards at being generalists)

 

[Emdash]

also not to mention the speed difference between an oghmir and a full khurite is extremely minimal,

you guys have to stop saying this HAHA.

I play fit khur. It's trash, but it's def got speed. It's not a veela. It doesn't have the equivalent of FLASH in league of legends like Veela does, but it is faster than almost all races, enough to get away. Stam, yea, well... there are break points tho, I think 111 or 112 dex is a decent break point, if you wanna see an ogh get kited.

Trinkets help because there were a lot of caps that are within 2 pts (for cup rangz) of dex. Gotta get over 250 tho for sure.

I'm feeling theoretical (opens secret appz.) So like... I still say 250 is the point. Like 250/430(run.) I'd like to see Sard hit 250 speed. I see that at 130 (MAX) dex a Khurite has 257 speed. That's problematic. I'd like to see Khur speed get closer to 255 (veela is 258 stout iirc and 260... up to 263 at 129.)

Resting pulse + active speed buffs would still make them faster. I see no reason why it would be game breaking to dump dex on humans. They are still lacking combat leap, etc. Then that's it. Alv shits all over Khurite in terms of pts. In fact khurite would need more pts to even fill up their dex if they got more dex haha. But they and sard need it. THEN work on the point issue, but att caps, dey gotta...

and I'd really like to see them all get a nice little bump on att pts, too, so you can do magic on everyone!

Speed + extra atts for MP are the only things keeping human from being one of the more viable magi races.