From an HC gamer but a casual MO2 player

[Lunotto]

Well, i thought a bit before making that post or not, cause i like MO2 but i'm not a real fanboy, but maybe 2cents from a player like me can help SV to understand what they have in hands.

I've always wanted to play MO but at that time i was an HC player on WoW, so no time for another MMO.
Then i bought MO2 on day one (played the beta) cause i love the idea of the skill system, the map, the high player skill needed to play, the lack of infos in game and the fact that you need to learn it and explore the world, unless read a guide and build brainless.

I've played it at release and was a real mess. Too much players and a network infrastructure that was totally unable to handle all the players. This and the lack of basic content forced me to quit it after the first month. I was upset cause playing the beta and the first month give me the good vibes about the game, but the unprepared SV was bright, and i feel a bit scammed cause was clear that the game was not built for so many players.

I still checking discord,forum and reddit in those years to see how the game grown, and when they transition to UE5 i've jumped in again cause i have a very good rig and i love to try it with demanding games, so i reinstalled entered and pushed all the stuff to High. It's good. 80 FPS average, networking was fixed , no lag, and i started playing since 10 days now. I've got a character so i start to learn how to do a beast master.
Damn is so good to learn the map, the game, the skill system,doing hunter contracts , taming my first animal, being lost in the jungle to find the camp for the BM books with 25g on me and the fear of being ganked.

Even the social part is good. I've meet some players, having fun with them, one helped me to find the jungle camp in discord.

I started to think that i can give it a try and play MO2 daily, as a "main game" .

BUT

Then it will come the sub. And like i do in ALL the games, i ask me the main question "It worth a 15€ sub?" and sadly the reply that i give to me every day is " no "

No, because there still some basic content unfinished or not polished
No because 1500 players still too low for a game as a player base.
No because SV infos and plans makes me feel that they still unprepared
No because the PvE part is clunky as an 1990 game
No because i don't see a balance in the game features (armors, weapons , riding,etc) but a sort of "ok you need to equip and use that because is simply better than all the rest"

And for me is totally not worth a sub. And is sad cause i still like the game in those days, the beautiful map, and what i can give during my gameplays. I still want to explore more , i still want to play more of my char, but i still think that is NOT worth a sub.

So, i know that i'm not a fanboy , for you i can be the "average player". and i think that a game need "average players" come into the game and maybe find it good and funny and become a part of the player base. I have 6 friends that will like MO2, but i discourage them to buy it cause is not worthing the sub.

My advice is: Don't activate sub. Find a way to take money (cause i know that every dev need money) with microtransactions, armor skin, per skin, weapon skin, maybe even a second char behind paywall will be good. But don't insert the sub, cause without a sub players like me can still play the game and start to advertising it with friends. You will grow the playerbase , having some new income from selling it (still a buy to play) and you can still continue to work and maybe increase the player count (still a good avertising having good numbers )

Hope i was not too rude, but still some thoughts from a gamer just passing by a good game but poorly managed

 

[Jackdstripper]

I agree that the game is not worth a subscription right now. Even soley based on current performance and serious bugs in the game.

However, micro transactions are a slippery slope. It always starts with vanity items, and then it progresses to quality of life perks, then ingame currency, and eventually becomes a P2w game.

I would rather pay a sub. At least a sub discourages the amount of bots and alt accounts, and makes rmt harder to be profitable. However it will lower the population as well.

 

[Lunotto]

I agree that the game is not worth a subscription right now. Even soley based on current performance and serious bugs in the game.

However, micro s transactions are a slippery slope. It always starts with vanity items, and then it progresses to quality of life perks, then ingame currency, and eventually becomes a P2w game.

I would rather pay a sub. At least a sub discourages the amount of bots and alt accounts, and makes rmt harder to be profitable. However it will lower the population as well.

You are right. Microtransaction if not managed in a good way can have downside. But the state of the game right now is not good for a sub, so it end just to lower much more the population, making it a dead game. I have no problem to pay subs, i always paid and support games that give me fun while playing, and i will be good to pay MO2 if SV give me some more confidence they are working good. But this is not the case sadly, and i'm concerned about it. I will still play MO2 if they don't ask me for monthly money for a game in that state.
sad

 

[Malmsteen]

How is the game worth your time but not worth the money? The game requires hours each play session to do anything. So how is the game worth multiple hours if not 10+ or more per month but not worth 14 dollars per month? That makes no sense bro you might need to step back and asses the value of your own time and priorities and/or financial situation.

 

[Lunotto]

How is the game worth your time but not worth the money? The game requires hours each play session to do anything. So how is the game worth multiple hours if not 10+ or more per month but not worth 14 dollars per month? That makes no sense bro you might need to step back and asses the value of your own time and priorities and/or financial situation.

Because the time i spent in the game is constellated with bugs, poor netcode and poor unfinished and unpolished features that can be easly evaded while you are a new player learning the game, but easly mess your gameplay sessions while you will not be a noob anymore and want to play more deeply.
Is not so hard to see. Maybe is much more easy to see if you are an "aged" gamer used to play MMO at high level, but its clear that MO2 lack of attention and polishing from SV, and this is why is not worth a monthly sub but worth the 40€ that i placed on it 2 years ago. And when i paid it 2 years ago it was simply unplayable and absolutly an inch near a scam.

I can see the work they done in those years, but i can see too that they have not finished and polished a single gameplay or features.

This is why it worth some hours of my time in those days , but it not worth a monthly subs. Since they don't make the community confident on what they are doing, a player can choose to stay or not, and the incoming subs make me (and maybe more other) to cut it definitely unless wait like i did in those 2 years. I will simply move to other games cutting off those hours that i'm dedicating at MO2 .

 

[Amelia]

Well, i thought a bit before making that post or not, cause i like MO2 but i'm not a real fanboy, but maybe 2cents from a player like me can help SV to understand what they have in hands.

I've always wanted to play MO but at that time i was an HC player on WoW, so no time for another MMO.
Then i bought MO2 on day one (played the beta) cause i love the idea of the skill system, the map, the high player skill needed to play, the lack of infos in game and the fact that you need to learn it and explore the world, unless read a guide and build brainless.

I've played it at release and was a real mess. Too much players and a network infrastructure that was totally unable to handle all the players. This and the lack of basic content forced me to quit it after the first month. I was upset cause playing the beta and the first month give me the good vibes about the game, but the unprepared SV was bright, and i feel a bit scammed cause was clear that the game was not built for so many players.

I still checking discord,forum and reddit in those years to see how the game grown, and when they transition to UE5 i've jumped in again cause i have a very good rig and i love to try it with demanding games, so i reinstalled entered and pushed all the stuff to High. It's good. 80 FPS average, networking was fixed , no lag, and i started playing since 10 days now. I've got a character so i start to learn how to do a beast master.
Damn is so good to learn the map, the game, the skill system,doing hunter contracts , taming my first animal, being lost in the jungle to find the camp for the BM books with 25g on me and the fear of being ganked.

Even the social part is good. I've meet some players, having fun with them, one helped me to find the jungle camp in discord.

I started to think that i can give it a try and play MO2 daily, as a "main game" .

BUT

Then it will come the sub. And like i do in ALL the games, i ask me the main question "It worth a 15€ sub?" and sadly the reply that i give to me every day is " no "

No, because there still some basic content unfinished or not polished
No because 1500 players still too low for a game as a player base.
No because SV infos and plans makes me feel that they still unprepared
No because the PvE part is clunky as an 1990 game
No because i don't see a balance in the game features (armors, weapons , riding,etc) but a sort of "ok you need to equip and use that because is simply better than all the rest"

And for me is totally not worth a sub. And is sad cause i still like the game in those days, the beautiful map, and what i can give during my gameplays. I still want to explore more , i still want to play more of my char, but i still think that is NOT worth a sub.

So, i know that i'm not a fanboy , for you i can be the "average player". and i think that a game need "average players" come into the game and maybe find it good and funny and become a part of the player base. I have 6 friends that will like MO2, but i discourage them to buy it cause is not worthing the sub.

My advice is: Don't activate sub. Find a way to take money (cause i know that every dev need money) with microtransactions, armor skin, per skin, weapon skin, maybe even a second char behind paywall will be good. But don't insert the sub, cause without a sub players like me can still play the game and start to advertising it with friends. You will grow the playerbase , having some new income from selling it (still a buy to play) and you can still continue to work and maybe increase the player count (still a good avertising having good numbers )

Hope i was not too rude, but still some thoughts from a gamer just passing by a good game but poorly managed

I can tell you that, because you are a new player, you have a ton of things to do so probably it worth a sub imho.
You said that you are a BM and as second profession what you are plan to do ?, because there are many interesting things to do : alchemist, cooker, butcher, etc, etc.
If you like play solo you can explore, build your house, sell your things, commerce, hunting, etc.
Otherwise you can join a guild protect your territories, do more difficult dungeuns with your guild, etc

 

[Philocypher]

I think it's incredibly silly to suggest the game is "not worth" a sub.
It's not worth $15/mo but it's worth hundreds of hours of your time?
You've got some seriously misguided priorities if the $15/mo is a dealbreaker but the time sink is not.

 

[Backpackface]

I wouldn't worry about being mean as long as you have a point behind it. I always say things bluntly because I feel like it's more cruel to let someone waste their time for 4 years only to fail rather than just tell them how it is and give them the opportunity to fix things.

 

[Yeonan]

I tend to look at the sub as a way to support the development, in addition to the fun you have. Not just the produ t as is.

Gamers are weird creatures, scoff at $15 for a month of game time yet spend more than that on Mt dew and garlic knots in a single night's gaming session.

I would take a sub model over any other kind because I know x = 15 and never changes.

Play the game for what it is, not what you want it to be.

 

[Mad Jugger]

I agree its not worth a sub

 

[Lunotto]

I tend to look at the sub as a way to support the development, in addition to the fun you have. Not just the produ t as is.

Gamers are weird creatures, scoff at $15 for a month of game time yet spend more than that on Mt dew and garlic knots in a single night's gaming session.

I would take a sub model over any other kind because I know x = 15 and never changes.

Play the game for what it is, not what you want it to be.

And here i can totally agree with you. I support since 10 years Star Citizen . After supporting Blizzard with WoW, i quitted it because they did bad decisions and i choose to stop supporting them cause they are shit rn.
Then i followed Star Citizen and i'm an active player and supporter, so i really agree that paying a game is for supporting it.
But MO2 is not reflecting a good work. The problem is all here.

Low effort on polishing, lot of bug and a netcode that will break again if 3k players will join. the map is so big and deep that the game need more than 6-7k players but the game will not fit them in a good way.
Speaking of what i saw in the game, pet are a mess,and still need more work to do a good features with BM and Taming.
PvE and mobs are clunky and they are the same since the release 2 years ago
Crafting balance is totally absent. You craft 2 stuffs cause are the op stuffs and all other matz are simply useless.

I see low effort in the game from SV, when the game is really a little diamond, and this is not good when you need gamers to support your work.
This is why i say that is not worthing a sub, because they can reach more players in other ways since the game still an early access Beta.

They can have 1k of subs from the diehard comunity, but a lot of other players that CAN join will simply pass the game because of that. There is nothing to do .

Don't start the sub for another year, work to POLISH what you have in game now, and see players come. THEN activate the sub, when the game is stable for players to join in and play without all those mess.

 

[Lunotto]

I think it's incredibly silly to suggest the game is "not worth" a sub.
It's not worth $15/mo but it's worth hundreds of hours of your time?
You've got some seriously misguided priorities if the $15/mo is a dealbreaker but the time sink is not.

The difference is that i can "time sink" some weeks trying MO2. I don't judge a game without playing it, and this is what i'm doing in those weeks.
I see the work done, i see the potential of that game, but i'm not blind.
They release a game 2 years ago, selling 110k copies of it, and theyr server cannot handle more than 3k concurrent players. Lot of basic content missing. Really, i was not joking when i say that was an inch from a scam.

They managed to stay alive, and they worked on it, but with really low effort. 110k copies sold and we still have bugs and missing polishing after 2 years. Is not a good advertising for the game.
So yes. i'm playing it, i'm sinking some hours of my time in the game and if they start the subs i simply stop playing it and stop sinking hours on it cause is not worthing.

 

[Amadman]

It is simple, if you are not happy with it currently then do not sub.

This is actually the beauty of it being sub based. They will have to try and get it in a condition where people are willing to sub for it.

Making it have a cash shop or some other model will just put the focus somewhere other than making a better game.

 

[Lunotto]

It is simple, if you are not happy with it currently then do not sub.

This is actually the beauty of it being sub based. They will have to try and get it in a condition where people are willing to sub for it.

Making it have a cash shop or some other model will just put the focus somewhere other than making a better game.

I know. But this post was made because is not only "if someone don't like sub don't pay it". At the moment MO2 count less than 1500 concurent players. Well, with sub you will not increase that number. You will not have some players that say "oh good i didn't play MO2 but now that have sub i will join it!!"
More probably you will have some of those 1500 players say "Damn, it was fun but it's too messy to pay a sub. GG HF BB" and population will be less and less.

 

[Amadman]

I know. But this post was made because is not only "if someone don't like sub don't pay it". At the moment MO2 count less than 1500 concurent players. Well, with sub you will not increase that number. You will not have some players that say "oh good i didn't play MO2 but now that have sub i will join it!!"
More probably you will have some of those 1500 players say "Damn, it was fun but it's too messy to pay a sub. GG HF BB" and population will be less and less.

My comment is not "if you don't like it don't play it", its more like a vote with your dollars type of thing.

If you are not happy with it then don't pay for it until you are.


I currently have three months because I purchased the conflux in the beginning.

Honestly I am not even sure if I will pay when the time comes to do so. It depends on what state the game is in at that time.

But even if I do not, I will still keep an eye on the game to see if it does get to a point where I do think it's worth it.

If it does then I will jump in at that time. I can not be the only one on the fence here.


You are right that the numbers will go down once people are required to pay.

There is no way around that since many never intended to pay. They are simply not the target audience.


In the first game there was an ebb and flow to subs. When new patches came out the amount of players went up for awhile.

Then it would die down after some time. There would be seasonal changes as well.

That is all part of the sub model and SV has experienced it all. So I am sure they are aware of what to expect now.



In the end with a sub based system it is SV's responsibility to get the game in a state where more people are willing to sub.

If it was based on micro trans then their responsibility would be to get players to purchase cosmetics from the shop.

I prefer that their motivation is to make a better game.

 

[Highlander]

game atm runs like a toaster, not worth subbing at all, game has a lot of potential..I would just wait another year before subbing. sub model is the best for this type of game.

 

[Philocypher]

i thought it was worth a sub in ue4.
ue5 launch has been a hot mess.
I honestly can't afford to sink the time into the game but the sub fee is really minimal.

For me, $15/mo is not a dealbreaker.
reading through this thread, it seems like people are listing a lot of dealbreakers that have very little to do with the sub fee.

It seems like people are talking more about why they don't want to PLAY not why they don't want to PAY.

It might be a good idea for SV to have a sub-free weekend every month or so, so that everyone who owns the game but don't have an active sub can log in and check whether or not they think the game has improved enough for them to want to actually play it. Because I think a lot of people want to keep an eye on this game but can't justify actually playing it.

But I stand by my assertion that if you're willing to sink time into the game than you should also be willing to pay a nominal fee. There's people with thousands of hours in the game complaining about the sub. If you log in for 8 hours a day and a sub fee is a dealbreaker, you really need to get a job.

 

[Lunotto]

...

It seems like people are talking more about why they don't want to PLAY not why they don't want to PAY.

... If you log in for 8 hours a day and a sub fee is a dealbreaker, you really need to get a job.

Emh, where did you read that i don't want to PLAY?
And nope, i work and i don't have 8 hours a day to play games, not anymore since a lot of years XD This is why my time worth, and this is why i balance time/€/fun

MO2 worth the buytoplay, but not a month sub right now cause in 2 years SV put low effort on it, while selling 110k copies.
Like someone say some post above, if they stay subfree in 2024 and they rise effort on make the game polished, well, in 2025 it can worth a sub.
With a sub in 2024, it will took 2 month to sink under the 1k concurrent players and die

 

[Teknique]

Is the game worth a sub? That really shows the difference. In the first game the question was is the game worth 4 subs at once?

 

[Emdash]

It seems like people are talking more about why they don't want to PLAY not why they don't want to PAY.

I mean, haha...