Foot Archer Possible?

[Gavinox]

Hi All,

From what I have read, foot archers are relatively difficult / gimped / not intended to be a viable playstyle. I would consider viable something that stands a chance in most scenarios.

I would like to confirm that is the consensus - thoughts?

I saw that it is possible to jump kite (jump>180>shoot>180) - but stamina usage from jumping seems to prevent this from being something you could rely on without being OOS too quickly.

Is there any way to reduce stamina usage from jumping?

Has anyone played this style as an Alvarin enough (wtih their stamina perks), to weigh in?

Is anyone finding success prioritizing foot archery, aside from the rare case where the terrain makes it possible (such as in a town or rocky area as an Alvarin)?

I do like a challenge, but not a dead end with no light - so any success stories or scenarios would be appreciated.

Thank you in advance for your input.

-Gav

 

[MolagAmur]

Foot archer can be viable. You just need the right build and must have a melee weapon as a backup for when someone inevitabley gets on you.

Most people just go for mage though, since its hitscan and just easier to use and more damage unless you're an insane shot.

 

[Jackdstripper]

Foot archer is not possible as standalone build. You have to have a melee as back up, and you will have to use it often. Archery is mostly a ranged addition for regular foot melee builds.

you move too slow when pulling bow. You use too much stam for strong bows. Heavy armour negates too much of your damage. Shields block arrows too easily. You cant block with bow out. You cant slow down enemies. It takes too long to draw a bow AND it can be interruped when hit by a melee.

archery is only good pre engagment, while enemy is closing the gap. Once they are with in range you have to switch to melee weapon or die. Running isnt an option even for fast vheelas.

 

[Piet]

There's just no reason to go foot archer and not take a melee weapon. The issue is you use stam to run and to shoot and you cannot parry. Therefore if you are shooting you have less stam to run and eventually will get caught and when you do cannot protect yourself. On top of that you have all the stats for melee anyways why not throw 100 points into a weapon? Archery is more suplimental for foot not meat and potatoes of any foot build that's viable. Another issue is unless you're literally 360 noscope pro you have a way higher chance of missing or just lesser damage output. There is only 2 people I have seen be viable at it. One literally was a pro in fps and just didn't really miss the other was a cheater with aimbot and stam hacks XD

 

[Gavinox]

Thank you for the quick responses! It all makes sense.

If I wanted to go bow/melee, would a Veela be worth it for this type of character, to allow for a bit more mobility/kiting, or not so much?

It seems like the speed and stamina of a Veela may not come into play enough to outweigh the downsides of once the fight turns into melee. - especially if I'm correct that bow damage would be lower due to lower strength, and my HP would be lower than a clade focused on melee capabiltiies.

Cheers!

 

[Rorry]

Veela is a good choice if you are highly skilled, otherwise not.

 

[Jackdstripper]

Veela is a good choice if you are highly skilled, otherwise not.

Pretty much this.
If you know exactly when to do what. which fights you can take and which ones you cant. When to run and when to fight. How to counter The strength and take advantage of the weaknesses of each class/race, then a vheela is a good choice.

however, because of their small health pool, less stamina, and less damage output they are not easy to use for nubes. All it takes is to miss some parrys and you'll find yourself at very low hp. They just dont allow for many mistakes, and the speed advantage just isnt significant enough to let you just run away every time.

for a new player that is still learning all the ins and outs of melee fighting i highly suggest Ohgmir or Thursar instead. Much more forgiving and tanky races.

if you are dead set on mastering the vheelas, know that it wont be an easy life until you become a very good melee fighter. You are the paper of all the races.

 

[Highlander]

In this game bows are good to finish players with low life since they cant Block arrows without a shield, or hit mounteds. Short bows are good to kill mages, bcause they require low stamina and are fast enough , long bows instead are for sniping standing still from far and hit very hard. Cant play a pure archer, but u can train to be the best at it.

 

[Acebane]

I play an elf foot archer/mounted archer w/ dagger. I'll add that being a foot archer is viable. The question comes in when it comes to context.

1v1 versus the foot fighter who's wearing full steel and pushing you as hard as he can? Not so much.

In a 7 vs 7 group fight where you can assist with hitting their mages in their backline while they try to cast heal on their warriors? Yes, Viable.

In a 5 foot fighter group vs 3 mounted archers/mages attacking you? Yes viable as you keep pewpewing their mounts, making them go heal their mounts and giving your group time to run rock to rock to get back to meduli (this happened while I played with Ashen Order guys vs 3 tagless RPKers such as ballbag).

In a 1vs4 where you are getting ganked by a group of RPKers, not viable as the speed difference between maxed dex and a random foot fighter is not significant enough to allow you to actually shoot and run. You can outrun maybe but that's with never turning back and hoping they don't have horses.

In PVE environment, you'll do pretty well especially if you are a mounted archer. If you're in Tindrem Sewers, you'll do ok but there's tight corridors where you'll have to face tank. But that's why you have a melee back up.

With all that being said, MO2 is making characters specialize (1 per account) so you won't be able to be effective in everything. That way a balanced group of foot fighters, mounteds, mages, and archers will all have their roles and purposes. So know that you will suffer in certain contexts and excel in others. It's up to you as a smart player to make lemonade out of those lemons in every situation.

I do think Foot Archers need some love so they're more "effective" but we won't get into that balancing mess.

 

[Gavinox]

I play an elf foot archer/mounted archer w/ dagger. I'll add that being a foot archer is viable. The question comes in when it comes to context.

1v1 versus the foot fighter who's wearing full steel and pushing you as hard as he can? Not so much.

In a 7 vs 7 group fight where you can assist with hitting their mages in their backline while they try to cast heal on their warriors? Yes, Viable.

In a 5 foot fighter group vs 3 mounted archers/mages attacking you? Yes viable as you keep pewpewing their mounts, making them go heal their mounts and giving your group time to run rock to rock to get back to meduli (this happened while I played with Ashen Order guys vs 3 tagless RPKers such as ballbag).

In a 1vs4 where you are getting ganked by a group of RPKers, not viable as the speed difference between maxed dex and a random foot fighter is not significant enough to allow you to actually shoot and run. You can outrun maybe but that's with never turning back and hoping they don't have horses.

In PVE environment, you'll do pretty well especially if you are a mounted archer. If you're in Tindrem Sewers, you'll do ok but there's tight corridors where you'll have to face tank. But that's why you have a melee back up.

With all that being said, MO2 is making characters specialize (1 per account) so you won't be able to be effective in everything. That way a balanced group of foot fighters, mounteds, mages, and archers will all have their roles and purposes. So know that you will suffer in certain contexts and excel in others. It's up to you as a smart player to make lemonade out of those lemons in every situation.

I do think Foot Archers need some love so they're more "effective" but we won't get into that balancing mess.

Cheers, thanks! I am tentatively planning on continuing to push a hybrid Veela.

Bow-focused, passable melee, passable mounted archery.. perhaps. I am aware it would not excel in 1v1 without a lot of practice.

Would you mind sharing why you went with daggers over a different weapon? Simply because your dex is higher than str?

Care to share your build?

Thanks!

 

[Acebane]

I went Daggers for due to high dex and I like daggers (Spent my entire gaming career playing rogue-related classes). Could easily go any other melee weapon but the low stamina drain from daggers also seemed ideal to me considering I may want to cut and run after a brief exchange in melee.

I have been bouncing my build back and forth between a couple primaries such as defensive stance, survival, aggressive stance, veterinary, blocking, Armor Training etc. I'm still trying stuff out to see what is better for me personally in combat. Such as, Marksmanship is nice for PVE but I have found it's very hard to get headshots in PVP scenario FOR ME, so that may be something I skip on. I never had interest in magic personally so I just don't grab anything from it despite vitalism being in reach considering the glade gift bonus.

Anatomy 100 - 100
Combat Maneuvering 100 - 200
Dagger 100 -300
Archery 100 -400
Controlled Aiming 70 -470
Marksmanship 70 -540
Mounted Archery 100 -640
Controlled Riding 100 -740
Armor Training 70 -810
Veterinary 30 -840
Survival 40 -880
Creature Control 20 -900
Aggressive Stance 65 -965
Defensive Stance 65 -1030
Blocking 70 -1100
(if I screwed up point count or forgot something major, my bad I'm on a work conference call lol)

More armor training? Heavier armor. Less armor training? Stick to horn medium armor.
Survival? Not sure as I have VERY few times I needed it but as a solo player (besides chasing Miscreants at Meduli), it may come in handy to escape a zerg of gankers.
Defensive Stance? Aggressive Stance? Depends on play style. Ideally I'd like to think I wont get hit and I won't get in melee range in group fight but not realistic.
Melee Weapon? I'd say it's useful for when people close the distance on you and in PVE but is it necessary? No, just means your damage will be reduced in melee but if you intend to defend and run away when you can, then it's fine.
Veterinary? The more the better but at what cost? Will we have group healers?
Creature Control ? Do you want maxed out health horse and high level horse? The answer is yes but I have yet to have a horse survive long enough
Controlled Aiming has yet to be put in game yet, is that worth it? Is it feasible to use the hold breathe feature in a game-y way to PVP kite and shoot?

Who knows what the build will be tomorrow. Currently though I'm Veela Stout with the ideal clades for archery. Maxed out dex/con/strength and rest in psyche. I have a longbow/shortbow/asym bow for different purposes. Long bow for pegging mages from a far. Shortbow for pursuit shooting, Asym bow for mounted fun.

 

[Emdash]

IMO rolling a char like alv if you aren't a mage and not taking archery when you get a +25 is crazy. I like shooting people with bows but I wouldn't call myself a foot archer. I'm not a great shot, but I can hit, I guess? Hitting far away is harder with a short bow because you have to bomb it due to the trajectory of low str bows, so you have to guess where they are going as well as aim up. I would not advise a long bow primarily. I mean, if all things were equal and I was just geared to the teeth, I would have a long bow that was high str, too, incase if I ever got in a good perch and I could really do some stuff, but in terms of just actual usage, foot archer is a thing but it's not a build IMO. There are plenty of times archery is a good look, tho. If the draw distance was better, it would be even better cuz you can actually hit from pretty far away.

Get yourself some crepite bows and dense crep bows. I guess magic is easier, but it's so much fun to hit people with arrows as well as look at the arrows sticking out of them. I love being like "lemme shoot that" and aiming it then running up to it and see if I got close to where I was aiming. I've never found a use for marksmanship (mainly because I don't feel the buff is worth afaik, not because it's impossible to head shot, it should just be a lot more rewarding) etc, but def spec archery as an elf. The main problem with bows is how long it takes to draw them, and I would say I don't even full draw them when I am rapid firing. But the fact it takes so long to draw them makes them much harder to use in pvp. It's sad because if you could shoot a bow for full dmg on a draw (it's like you draw it then pull it back to your cheek on some Robin Hood stuff, for an extra half second), you could dps, but mainly you end up shooting a lot lightly drawn rapid fire, or I do, just something I started doing w/ MA.

It's a great feeling to ping someone w/ an arrow but yea, the sad part is a fighter w/ ranged combat isn't that far behind you, and all of the extra specs aren't really worth it. I would like archery to get a buff, as I said, and I REALLY think archery head shots need a HUGE buff. It should demolish someone like 60-70 with a decent bow if you ping them in the head, lol im sorry. Maybe not on mounted, but you should be rewarded for that cuz it's not easy, and it would make archery worth it. It would also be nice to see archery shredding back line targets a lot more than it does.

Edit: for real, archery is my fav part of the game I think

Edit2: I use bows on my lean veela, I used them on my khur, and I use them on my 110 str mutt. The one thing that being veela esp lean (I know people think I'm crazy, and I do get destroyed when people get to me) is that you can jump up on things that nobody else can. Getting high, no pun, is a big part of archery.

 

[Gavinox]

IMO rolling a char like alv if you aren't a mage and not taking archery when you get a +25 is crazy. I like shooting people with bows but I wouldn't call myself a foot archer. I'm not a great shot, but I can hit, I guess? Hitting far away is harder with a short bow because you have to bomb it due to the trajectory of low str bows, so you have to guess where they are going as well as aim up. I would not advise a long bow primarily. I mean, if all things were equal and I was just geared to the teeth, I would have a long bow that was high str, too, incase if I ever got in a good perch and I could really do some stuff, but in terms of just actual usage, foot archer is a thing but it's not a build IMO. There are plenty of times archery is a good look, tho. If the draw distance was better, it would be even better cuz you can actually hit from pretty far away.

Get yourself some crepite bows and dense crep bows. I guess magic is easier, but it's so much fun to hit people with arrows as well as look at the arrows sticking out of them. I love being like "lemme shoot that" and aiming it then running up to it and see if I got close to where I was aiming. I've never found a use for marksmanship (mainly because I don't feel the buff is worth afaik, not because it's impossible to head shot, it should just be a lot more rewarding) etc, but def spec archery as an elf. The main problem with bows is how long it takes to draw them, and I would say I don't even full draw them when I am rapid firing. But the fact it takes so long to draw them makes them much harder to use in pvp. It's sad because if you could shoot a bow for full dmg on a draw (it's like you draw it then pull it back to your cheek on some Robin Hood stuff, for an extra half second), you could dps, but mainly you end up shooting a lot lightly drawn rapid fire, or I do, just something I started doing w/ MA.

It's a great feeling to ping someone w/ an arrow but yea, the sad part is a fighter w/ ranged combat isn't that far behind you, and all of the extra specs aren't really worth it. I would like archery to get a buff, as I said, and I REALLY think archery head shots need a HUGE buff. It should demolish someone like 60-70 with a decent bow if you ping them in the head, lol im sorry. Maybe not on mounted, but you should be rewarded for that cuz it's not easy, and it would make archery worth it. It would also be nice to see archery shredding back line targets a lot more than it does.

Edit: for real, archery is my fav part of the game I think

Edit2: I use bows on my lean veela, I used them on my khur, and I use them on my 110 str mutt. The one thing that being veela esp lean (I know people think I'm crazy, and I do get destroyed when people get to me) is that you can jump up on things that nobody else can. Getting high, no pun, is a big part of archery.

Thanks for pointing out lean = higher jump.. In between lean and fit.. choices choices

 

[Acebane]

Thanks for pointing out lean = higher jump.. In between lean and fit.. choices choices

I'm struggling with this decision too Gavinox

Go Lean to have 10 more speed, and 10 or more jump height (haven't checked it) but 5 less strength (bow strength restrictions = lower bow dmg) and less health. I want to be able to outrun people or catch up to people. I want to be able to jump up rocks or over fences easily. Maybe get better weakspot chance????

Go stout, get 15-18 more hp points, higher strength, use Stronger bows, and higher melee damage bonus

Go Fit and be in the middle ground between both?

The problem I'm seeing is the speed difference between Lean character (452 max speed I think?) vs a stout character (442 max speed i think?) isn't really worth it. I heard you need to sprint for 10 seconds straight to start pulling ahead. They say "if someone is in melee range with you, you have to find a window to escape melee range"... Well that's telling me the speed difference isn't worth it in a practical pvp situation.

I'm leaning towards going stout to max damage output and give more health. May not be able to jump as high but I feel the 10 more jump height usefulness would be very specific situations which wouldn't happen often. Also, my recent PVP fight at Meduli last night has left me feeling like "Damn that 15-18 health makes a difference". Every time I got hit for like 30, my HP would just chunk and give my enemy a morale boost to keep chasing me.

I do wish that Starvault would make it so speed over 445 gave you like a 1-5% additional increase to speed so you could outrun people faster.

 

[Emdash]

It doesn't seem like it, but it does matter. I'm bad but I like to think I'm good or will be sometime. I like to play on DE HARDEST SETTINGS. LITE ARMOR... LEAN... so I can just kite and jump and then I get glomped by some one in 4 hits. Lean is 450 run @ 127 dex. You're prolly gonna be using a crep bow on foot, and I dunno if it makes much of a difference to have that little bit of str for archery.

For real tho, being the fastest, even if it's just a little bit does matter. Like if you wanna escape, you just need them to miss one attack. One of the most underrated ways of escaping people is running TOWARD them. The speed matters when you are bandaging, when you are kitting around w wep out, it's not a big difference but I dunno if the dmg is either. Def personal pref and most people choose stout. I definitely get shook when I start getting slammed even if I'm technically doing OK in the fight, but I just am prone to failing hard. I imagine, at some point, I will unlearn my cursed failure, but yea I'm gonna stick on lean if I'm going veela. That 450 just looks too sweet.

A lot of the idea of foot archer is a troll character anyway, like subterfuge. Guerilla like, so yea ideally you don't wanna get hit much at all.

you need a certain personality, but yea, imagine this as an archer who can land hits. It's pretty OP as long as you don't let people get on you trapped.

 

[nazgo]

I have played archers both in MO1 and MO2, so here are my 2 cents on the subject

In MO1:

I had MA which was not a wheelchair, I never enjoyed wheelchairs. Instead I had the required skills for foot fighting and melee as well. The character was fun, really really fun. At the beginning, I was able to keep survival etc as there were no archery related skills (such as marksmanship), but at the end, I had to give up some utility/melee skills for the archery related skills. Still, this was one of the few characters I played from the release, all the way to the point I quitted.

I also had a foot archer, and well, it was crazy fun. SOMETIMES. Sometimes it was not fun at all.

It all came down to the fact that MA was usefull on every situation, foot archer was situational af. This was pretty much caused by the flat atmosphere of MO1 world. Everything was flat, sure there were hills every here and there, but the ground itself was always flat. There were very few rocks, fallen trees, tents, or randon objects to stand on top of. This all resulted in the fact that MA was a beast as soon as you left the NPC city gates. Even player made cities had flat ground, sure there were buildings, but nothing on stand on top of or hide behind, unless you went inside those buildings.

And foot archers require those reliefs (I think thats the word, the "difference in heights") to be effective. You can dish out really good dps, if you can aim well. But if everyone is standing on a flat pedestal, its just way too hard to aim effectively.

Second problem with archers in MO1 was the dmg. Anything lower than 115 bow did absolutely no dmg against proper armor, and even 115 bows were pretty bad, unless you got a headshot. Headshots were rewarding af. But all this ment that archery was really usefull on just few races, my foot archer for example, was a tindremic (just for shit and giggles), and the dmg was really bad if I didnt headshot.

Now what about MO2?

Right as I joined the beta, I made a foot archer, veela. It was fun, it was even more fun than foot archery in MO1. The mobility is crazy with combat jumping and everything. I was also able to wield proper bows thanks to veela clades. The world is also more "rough", there are rocks and things to jump on top, more differences in elevation, more ruins and objects in the nature, so there are MANY MANY more places to fight as a foot archer. But then... I made the mistake of roaming. The world is massive, you are not gonna do roaming without a mount anymore. So my foot archer turned into MA/Foot archer hybrid. Then I took a break, as the old issue from MO1 still exists, you do very low dmg without marksmanship+headshots, and marksmanship was not in the game back then.

Now what about compared to mages?

Well, mages are different, its still like comparing apples and oranges, no matter that people claim otherwise. Mages have easier time doing dmg, as spells dont miss. But at the same time, mana regen is a joke. So in a long teamfight, a mage can easily out dps an archer in the beginning of a fight, but if a mage does so, they will run out of mana and go into lesser healing/corrupt stance for a long time, while an archer can just keep shooting more and more. They also serve a different role in pvp, and they have different strenghts and weaknesses.

Biggest difference between mages and archers comes in pve. An archer can solo most of the pve content, MA can even do so easily. Mages do not have such an easy time. It takes a lot more effort to farm with a mage than with an archer.

Now at release, Im gonna make an archer. I have not decided my race or my build yet, but Im gonna spec into the archery related skills, thats for sure. I see the benefits of veela in foot archery, but at the same time, there are races with clades that could support the character in different ways. Also, mounted is 100% required, so few points in cc and stuff is required, but I dont know about the rest yet. Problem with "just few points in cc" is the fact that the horses you can keep with so low CC are absolutely bad. These horses will be fine for mounted archery at the release, but as soon as people start leveling up their horses and eventually breeding them, 25 CC horses are not gonna work out anymore. At which point I would be a bad foot archer and a bad mounted archer. So eventually I need to make a decission between those two, and I dunno yet.

The biggest problem with archers atm, in my eyes, is the fact that you cannot invest (money wise) into archery. Magic had the same problem in MO1 (before new magic schools), as mage gear was cheap, mage reagents were cheap and skills were cheap. New magic schools changed this, and already we see in MO2 that one can invest money in magery. This is something I want for archery too. Fletchery needs to be a thing, bow crafting needs to be rewamped. The second best bows in MO1 were dirt cheap, the most expensive ones sure were expensive, but at the same time, they hardly buffed your dmg at all. As of right now, the best MO2 bows are again pretty cheap, and theres no fletching. So quite frankly, theres zero ways to invest money into archery.