FlakeStone weapons and 1.6weight weapons need tweaking (Ping Reasons)

[RaptorBlackz]

As per the title,

Basically any weapons that are under the 1.6 weight limit needs re-adjusting as there has been many cases which low-weight weapons simply go through blocks, Mainly the parry/riposte of flakestone swords which is near 50/50 of the time going through player blocks, I've seen many players including myself argue about this and it has been an ongoing issue since Alpha days, The flakestone sword reposte actually feels like alpha non-ping normalization speed.

While the low-weight weapons is useful for players to learn their dueling and is loved by many of the dueling community and i know people are going to dislike of taking something skilled away from them, in pratice against PVP any good player will simply abuse the parry/reposte to whittle someone down as it's near unblockable unless you have really good ping, Top that off with the fake/feint-reposte than that makes it even harder (even if you can read the animation you'd still get hit half the time).

There may need to be some form of speed-cap at the 1.6 weight range, The only hard counter to this is to simply rock heavier armour and take the hit and exchange which can be questionable in a gameplay manner.

I've spoken to many people ingame and they seem to be aware of the issue themselves but nothing has been brought up recently in comparison to alpha days which it was mentioned quite often, Opinions??

 

[Emdash]

Opinions??

0~ dmg parry into full charge swing is breaking the game, especially 1v1. Needs to be adjusted.

All of the problems people speak of center around that, but for some reason everyone wants adjustments outside of that simple thing. Make it so that you have to MOVE. Make parry negation related to swing arc/charge like unblocked swings are, so if you are just trying to tank a perfect charge hit with a parry, you should take damage. You need to be able to pressure people who turtle. I know you prol saw that PabloO vid of him beating a dude w/ a 1g 1h sword, but they are so light (and I dunno if this is specific to 1h, but it's a huge advantage if so, or if it's due to lightness) that you can hit someone and then parry because the slash is so small.

If the combat is slow and normalized, OK, but take out the 0 dmg part. Make it related to armor v wep (normal dmg calc, but reduced), and let the reward be the charged swing. That's the simple solution to it IMO. Nerf 1.6 wt weps is ehh, to me, esp when you got stuff like Cron which is valuable BECAUSE it is low wt and weps like Katana (which I like) which are valuable because of their low wt. If you make it so you get pounded w/ dmg from a great blade when fighting with a flake wep or a katana and have to make up for it with movement and charged parry hits, then that's fair imo.

The only real crazy stuff I've seen is from those 1h swords tho, and like I said it's due to the fact that their swing arc is so tiny that you can slap someone with a slash and almost 'cancel' into a parry. Nice skill play, but again, shouldn't be 0 dmg.

Once they work out the correct amount of dmg people should be taking in this slowed down parry combat, then the skill ceiling will increase dramatically. Not to say it doesn't take a certain skill to get around parries, but it's still limited. Go thru and read every 'problem with combat' thread and see how it's always like 'after parry', 'can't parry', 'too easy to parry,' it's like hmmm...

Edit: but yea my PoV is anything that you can craft as steel (even tung katana is less than 1.6) should not be nerfed. It's nice to get a good swing speed. Swinging a great blade is like swinging a spatula.

 

[Tashka]

All of the problems people speak of center around that, but for some reason everyone wants adjustments outside of that simple thing. Make it so that you have to MOVE.

Moving is affected by ping as well. You can be in Toxai and an opponent would be somewhere near the sausage lake and you can still get hit because lag.

 

[Tzone]

Most people dont understand why SV increased the speed on light weight weapons. Its like they forgot the game has people playing above 120 latency.

Just very weird that such a commonly understood issue among the community and at one point the dev team is just suddenly forgotten by the dev team.

There have been a couple other times where SV has said publicly that they understand a mechanic and we all agree on their understanding but months later they completly forgot their understanding of that mechanic and do some change that they previously found out doesnt work.

 

[Jatix]

What I've always thought is stupid, is that the 'worse' weapon materials are lighter, so they are faster, making them debatably better. A steel sword is slower and uses more stam than flake. So if you have a hard time getting through blocks or with stam management the steel isnt even really an upgrade. Which is just a dumb ass system. I get that the game wants to try and be realistic, but its not in 99% of ways. So a heavy great blade should weight the same regardless of material. Would fix most of these dumb balance issues. They would obv then want to buff things like flake to only be a tad worse than cuprum, which is a tad worse than steel, etc. They wont do this but it makes much more sense than the current jank garbage we have.

SV tries to make everything too dynamic, but they arent capable of handling their own systems. A basic system where each weapon has a weight, not effected by material, would be much easier to fine tune.

 

[RaptorBlackz]

Funny how i mention that weapons are kinda fast, Few weeks later they fuck it even more......HOW?

 

[ArcaneConsular]

What I've always thought is stupid, is that the 'worse' weapon materials are lighter, so they are faster, making them debatably better. A steel sword is slower and uses more stam than flake. So if you have a hard time getting through blocks or with stam management the steel isnt even really an upgrade. Which is just a dumb ass system. I get that the game wants to try and be realistic, but its not in 99% of ways. So a heavy great blade should weight the same regardless of material. Would fix most of these dumb balance issues. They would obv then want to buff things like flake to only be a tad worse than cuprum, which is a tad worse than steel, etc. They wont do this but it makes much more sense than the current jank garbage we have.

SV tries to make everything too dynamic, but they arent capable of handling their own systems. A basic system where each weapon has a weight, not effected by material, would be much easier to fine tune.

I mean most people swing wiffle ball bats about as fast as they swing real bats. Can't imagine much of a speed difference. Could see a stam difference though.

 

[Emdash]

What I've always thought is stupid, is that the 'worse' weapon materials are lighter, so they are faster, making them debatably better. A steel sword is slower and uses more stam than flake. So if you have a hard time getting through blocks or with stam management the steel isnt even really an upgrade. Which is just a dumb ass system. I get that the game wants to try and be realistic, but its not in 99% of ways. So a heavy great blade should weight the same regardless of material. Would fix most of these dumb balance issues. They would obv then want to buff things like flake to only be a tad worse than cuprum, which is a tad worse than steel, etc. They wont do this but it makes much more sense than the current jank garbage we have.

SV tries to make everything too dynamic, but they arent capable of handling their own systems. A basic system where each weapon has a weight, not effected by material, would be much easier to fine tune.

ye, stone n bone should swing slower than steel, common sense imo. Just like stone and bone (carp?) armor should be harder to wear than steel.

But with the atrocious parry system I would rather get slapped around like Mo1 without even seeing the person than have the infinite parry. If they are going to make the game slow, they need SOMETHING to happen when you connect a hit. Cuz I mean as it is now, you can get hits thru even v/ good ping people. It also affects them. It might be an advantage to them but the NOW I CAN HIT PEOPLE, basically vs "everything is a parry" is like an infinity v x conundrum. I'll take the ups and downs of fast swings over slow parry combat.

Def agree weps need to be balanced. Even now, weps need to do more dmg thru parry, the heavier weps that don't swing fast. And yea flake/incis, all that needs to change. You're right... I was just thinking they should give it a hidden bump to weight to make it harder to swing than steel, but really they should just make it weigh more than steel. haha. Even tho fashioning a sword out of the same amount of mats would weigh less, you could just assume fashioning a USABLE sword would require a diff shape and everything.

In short, you're right. But I really, even tho I'm not a leet pvper or anything, think they should leave the swing speed as it is and work on more combat changes. Def adjust low tier mats tho and their swing speed. Stay the fuck off katanas They are short and low dmg anyway.

 

[serge]

I think the speeds were fine before there was no reason to make things faster. Its good for EU players but screws over most of us NA. Its pretty tough blocking flake spammers now with 150 ping.