Fix Humans

Albanjo Dravae

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I don't think it's enough. If you're a tin, you're gonna get body bagged when you do get hit even tho you can slam people with spells, so mainly you'd wanna just fight someone as a mage, but you're pretty slow. On a mount, it's interesting as well, but again you are so freaking paper. If someone hasn't put out the dmg, they should check y'know 96, 101, 110 115 120 125 cons and check out the damage it reduces w/ armor on.

If their attribute point things were like +8 or +10 that would be pretty sweet. Like double it +8 int +10 mana. :D Do that w/ all their clades then double the maxes OR even make it 5 so that Khurite can get 120 dex, Kallad can get 120 str. - shrug- Would be a start. They are just too crippled w/ attributes atm IMO. They aren't BAD BAD. They just are definitely inferior, and they don't need to be, cuz they can do some things.
Idk is there any other clade with instant purify with cooldown?
Is it the slowest build?
Can't remember max stout human hp. But it's not intended for all clases to have the same STR or be equally in stats. The stat cap sets a playfield for gamestyles, is it enough for balancing more and mixmanaging more, well no.
I agree theres balance required but i don't think its broken a human is not as effective as a thursar.
 

Emdash

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Idk is there any other clade with instant purify with cooldown?
Is it the slowest build?
Can't remember max stout human hp. But it's not intended for all clases to have the same STR or be equally in stats. The stat cap sets a playfield for gamestyles, is it enough for balancing more and mixmanaging more, well no.
I agree theres balance required but i don't think its broken a human is not as effective as a thursar.

Most of the human clade tree is boosting their stats where as other clades might get boosted stats, but they also get a lot more clades that are "OP," Thursar and human have the most attribute affecting gifts and they are also seen as the two clades that are a bit behind the curve. Like I said if they consolidated their clade bonuses and added other clades, they could fix them.
 

Albanjo Dravae

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I think to a large the issue with human hybrids are a issue with hybrids in general. Essentially, you have to break away from combat long enough to cast a spell in order for your magic to be of any use to you at all. Alvarin using terrain, speed, and jumpcasting can achieve this. Other hybrids basically NEED to be ignored for a bit to make use of their magic as a dedicated melee will shut down that aspect of their build entirely, turning them into lightly armored, lower health, lower damage fighters.

We need some spells that can be cast while running and/or cast with a weapon out and parrying.

OBVIOUSLY, such spells need to have major drawbacks and limited strength. But if all hybrids could be weaving their magic into the fight at all times to SOME advantage, and then that advantage gets better if they are allowed to cast uninterrupted giving them access to all their spells... that right there would be the huge buff human hybrids need I think.
Hyrbids need tweak i agree but i disagree a human is not an effective hybrid, not having alvarin speed or buff just makes human hybrid more support, ranged or situational melee, since it's harder to break a sticky but not impossible to melee either.
I've played human hybrid quite a bit and even tho i agree could have some balance i don't think its broken, it's just another playfield.
But as a human i could open fights with fulm and tlash, double fulm or fulm corrupt and then switch to sword. And it almost in any case ment a win, fighting 1v1-2 in the wilderness. In groups fights alternated between agressive Magic and melee and defensive mid line emergency heals and mage peels, depending on the fight.

It's true you have to keep your range, its not that you have to be "ignored" you have to be at a certain range of the fight, using the terrain is not only jumping, and often jumping is not that rewarding in terms of stamina usage.
It's also true that the magery/armor-manareg build tradeoff is off in hybrids (and mages), that should be balanced and buffed to boost that gamestyle a little bit.

Then ecumenical is really shitty, needs a bunch of tweaks to favor different gamestyles more and make em more rewarding. Yes the stand still casting is terrible for balancing combat and the whole idea they didn't make magery proyectile based in MO2 pisses me off.
And thats the promise of necromancy, if i remember correct u can cast certain spells while running but its no guarantee whatsoever it would be any good or versatile for hybrid builds, we would have to see.

For closing, i don't think human is absolutly broken, it can be balanced but its understandable humans are set for a particular spectrum of gamestyles a player can bend and stretch to find the desired effects.

But to be honest, whole clade trees need a remake. I mean they could keep certain skills and concepts and make it deep but rn its really bad. Mixing combat with profession clade skills on the same tree with the same pool, not every creature in the world giving clade points and more.
Agree humans could have a speed and con tweak but nothing broken.
 
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Hodo

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rework the warcry. The anti magic warcry aint good and veela has a personal one thats better. make it non anti magic effect. Thusar cry and ogh cry arent as good as alvarian but at least they have a effect in fighting instead of being super situational as most of the time you are not worried as a group about taking random magic damage which is counted by mage heals.

No good group really runs humans for a reason.

Also humans with just a little bit more stamina could be very viable. Ogh defense, thusar damage, alvarian speed. Human could have the stamina to balance out the clade.

Stamina boost would make more sense for humans. That or a warcry to increase mana regen.
 

Hodo

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I don't think it's enough. If you're a tin, you're gonna get body bagged when you do get hit even tho you can slam people with spells, so mainly you'd wanna just fight someone as a mage, but you're pretty slow. On a mount, it's interesting as well, but again you are so freaking paper. If someone hasn't put out the dmg, they should check y'know 96, 101, 110 115 120 125 cons and check out the damage it reduces w/ armor on.

If their attribute point things were like +8 or +10 that would be pretty sweet. Like double it +8 int +10 mana. :D Do that w/ all their clades then double the maxes OR even make it 5 so that Khurite can get 120 dex, Kallad can get 120 str. - shrug- Would be a start. They are just too crippled w/ attributes atm IMO. They aren't BAD BAD. They just are definitely inferior, and they don't need to be, cuz they can do some things.

I love humans, I play as a human, but Humans are useless in competitive PVP, but they are best for PVE solo farming. That is about it.
 
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Emdash

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I love humans, I play as a human, but Humans are useless in competitive PVP, but they are best for PVE solo farming. That is about it.

I play my Khurite, and she's a mage hybrid now. My build is 85 str (bows), 101 dex (breakpoint) 110 con, 60~ int. Once I get shrink food and unlock dex +4 clade I'm gonna take at least 70 int. My mana is straight, my regen is nuts cuz I'm wearing lite ish armor anyway.

But still it wouldn't take much other than some changes like I suggested: increase the att bonuses and make them one gift and then add in more interesting gifts. Human def is an interesting class. It just doesn't know what it wants to be, when in reality, it should be able to do almost anything. That's why I support Khurites being able to reach 120 dex lean and kallard being able to reach 120 str. Imagine Kallard w/ 120~ str 120 con haha. Would be a scary char! Just give humans more points and higher att caps. Are they afraid humans are gonna be OP ? lol.
 

Hodo

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I play my Khurite, and she's a mage hybrid now. My build is 85 str (bows), 101 dex (breakpoint) 110 con, 60~ int. Once I get shrink food and unlock dex +4 clade I'm gonna take at least 70 int. My mana is straight, my regen is nuts cuz I'm wearing lite ish armor anyway.

But still it wouldn't take much other than some changes like I suggested: increase the att bonuses and make them one gift and then add in more interesting gifts. Human def is an interesting class. It just doesn't know what it wants to be, when in reality, it should be able to do almost anything. That's why I support Khurites being able to reach 120 dex lean and kallard being able to reach 120 str. Imagine Kallard w/ 120~ str 120 con haha. Would be a scary char! Just give humans more points and higher att caps. Are they afraid humans are gonna be OP ? lol.

The sad thing is my Sarducaan has 100 Dex before my two +1 raw dex rings, and 103 con, with 90 str and 90 int and 44 psy. I believe humans still need something to set them apart from other races. Humans will never be as fast as an alvarin, or as strong as a oghmir, or as smart as an oghmir, or as tough as an oghmir.... (noticing a problem)... or as out right damage creating as a Thursar. But the human should have SOMETHING....
 

Emdash

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The sad thing is my Sarducaan has 100 Dex before my two +1 raw dex rings, and 103 con, with 90 str and 90 int and 44 psy. I believe humans still need something to set them apart from other races. Humans will never be as fast as an alvarin, or as strong as a oghmir, or as smart as an oghmir, or as tough as an oghmir.... (noticing a problem)... or as out right damage creating as a Thursar. But the human should have SOMETHING....

I got 200 hp :eek: I mean in the end it just comes down to more attributes, I still say, that spread you got is v mediocre cept for 90 int. I thought about pure sardu, I mean at this point a lot of things would work. Still, if they gave us more raw pts to play w/ we would be able to build all kinds of crazy stuff and give humans way more utility.
 

Xronim

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If humans got reworked caps that would bring them up a bit since all 5 of them have really wonky numbers all over the place, and wont break them at all. Their clade gifts also do need to be changed because they have the least impactful ones out of all 4 clades, why do they need both hot temp and cold temp resist? merge them both and put a new gift down that could be combat related.

my beta human was a sard/sard/tind/sido and his caps were 104 str(stout), 104 con, 93 dex, 100 int and 14 psy, 192 hp. he really just felt like a worse version of just playing a sheevra hybrid/paladin since im slower and have less max stam.
 

Kaemik

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I play my Khurite, and she's a mage hybrid now. My build is 85 str (bows), 101 dex (breakpoint) 110 con, 60~ int. Once I get shrink food and unlock dex +4 clade I'm gonna take at least 70 int. My mana is straight, my regen is nuts cuz I'm wearing lite ish armor anyway.

iu


I'm assuming that was a fighter rerolled to mage/hybrid. You could get substantially better stats for hybrid on a 23yo fit Sarduucan. Though I personally feel 30yo stout Tindremene is the best option for humans. The difference in speed is just not that big.

Screen Shot 2022-07-11 at 7.16.57 PM.png
 
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Emdash

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iu


I'm assuming that was a fighter rerolled to mage/hybrid. You could get substantially better stats for hybrid on a 23yo fit Sarduucan. Though I personally feel 30yo stout Tindremene is the best option for humans. The difference in speed is just not that big.

View attachment 4587

0 chance I am respeccing weps haha. but yea.

Edit: Throw ya boy some shrink food and let me clade out fully. 70 int is definite. But I might be able to swing 80. I'm gonna be primarily using crepbow mounted. I am not unhappy at all w/ what I have. I'm not gonna be fulming people. I think I can contribute as a mage on the ground, too, but yeah, I am gimpy ish compared to a hard spec mage. But the fact that I can go more places, fight more styles, and farm so easily w/ MA is just too good. I feel like to take adv of human you should be on rough rider, and you should take at least 2 Mounted forms of combat. I tried MC, and I will try to go back if 110 STR is ever enough to dismount someone.
 
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Hodo

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0 chance I am respeccing weps haha. but yea.

Edit: Throw ya boy some shrink food and let me clade out fully. 70 int is definite. But I might be able to swing 80. I'm gonna be primarily using crepbow mounted. I am not unhappy at all w/ what I have. I'm not gonna be fulming people. I think I can contribute as a mage on the ground, too, but yeah, I am gimpy ish compared to a hard spec mage. But the fact that I can go more places, fight more styles, and farm so easily w/ MA is just too good. I feel like to take adv of human you should be on rough rider, and you should take at least 2 Mounted forms of combat. I tried MC, and I will try to go back if 110 STR is ever enough to dismount someone.

strength doesnt play into the dismount mechanics. You need to have a blunt weapon that does 40+ damage in a single hit to dismount.

You can do that with a 45str required warclub.
 
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Hodo

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iu


I'm assuming that was a fighter rerolled to mage/hybrid. You could get substantially better stats for hybrid on a 23yo fit Sarduucan. Though I personally feel 30yo stout Tindremene is the best option for humans. The difference in speed is just not that big.

View attachment 4587

I may need to get some de-age potions lol....
 
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ElPerro

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Humans flat out sucked in MO1 unless you were a khurite. But in MO1 speed worked differently it was based off of height, dex and con. Which meant tall high dex and high con characters like Thursar-Khurites were the king of speed and thus meta.

You also didnt have clades, or anything that made any of the races other than Thursars, oghmir, or alvarin kings. Humans just sucked in MO1. I know I played one for 13 years.
Do you even MO1? I dont think height was ever a factor in speed (except maybe visually) and they removed the con affecting speed in like 2014 iirc.
 

Hodo

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Do you even MO1? I dont think height was ever a factor in speed (except maybe visually) and they removed the con affecting speed in like 2014 iirc.

It was originally Height, Dex, and Con. They removed Height and Con in 2014 when a certain member of the community helped re-write the code for it. Which lead to the meta thursar-khurite speed build due to their strength and dex.
 
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Emdash

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strength doesnt play into the dismount mechanics. You need to have a blunt weapon that does 40+ damage in a single hit to dismount.

You can do that with a 45str required warclub.

Yea, I mean until MC allows you to use decent weapons; 110 str should be enough to wield something. Yea I could do a warhammer, but IMO axes should still dismount; they are the wep that is balanced for MC because they have the best arc. The only other one is lance/spear but I'm tired of hearing of lance already. Nothing would be wacker, to me, than all MCs being lancers.

Remember, you have to basically dive everyone you attack and the only 'good' outcome you are gonna get is a dismount. You can do decent dmg to someone, but not as much as w/ an axe. You think hitting someone w/ a 1h warclub would be more devastating than getting globbed w/ an axe? Just cuz the axe only has 20~ blunt, that should be enough blunt to dismount someone w/ no balance. I don't think MC will be good until MCs can reliably dismount almost everyone because that's basically all they have. It was a bad mechanic before (imo), but in this meta it makes sense. It's the only thing you can really do in a mounted fight. Hitting people on the ground, you'd prol rather be using a high dmg wep, too. I can already tell trying to dismount someone w/ a war club is prol like trying to hit them w/ a torch.
 

Hodo

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Yea, I mean until MC allows you to use decent weapons; 110 str should be enough to wield something. Yea I could do a warhammer, but IMO axes should still dismount; they are the wep that is balanced for MC because they have the best arc. The only other one is lance/spear but I'm tired of hearing of lance already. Nothing would be wacker, to me, than all MCs being lancers.

Remember, you have to basically dive everyone you attack and the only 'good' outcome you are gonna get is a dismount. You can do decent dmg to someone, but not as much as w/ an axe. You think hitting someone w/ a 1h warclub would be more devastating than getting globbed w/ an axe? Just cuz the axe only has 20~ blunt, that should be enough blunt to dismount someone w/ no balance. I don't think MC will be good until MCs can reliably dismount almost everyone because that's basically all they have. It was a bad mechanic before (imo), but in this meta it makes sense. It's the only thing you can really do in a mounted fight. Hitting people on the ground, you'd prol rather be using a high dmg wep, too. I can already tell trying to dismount someone w/ a war club is prol like trying to hit them w/ a torch.

Axes still dismount. You need to have more blunt damage than slashing. At that point they are considered blunt damage by the system currently. I have said this before, MO2 is a simplified MO1.
 
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Emdash

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Axes still dismount. You need to have more blunt damage than slashing. At that point they are considered blunt damage by the system currently. I have said this before, MO2 is a simplified MO1.

no doubt. I know most of that stuff. But still, more STR = better wep. 110 isn't enough to hold anything good and messing for instance.

Like I said I got one of the first video dismounts way back when people were still whining about MC sucking, so I know that is def possible and it is useful (except I'd like them to stay a bit longer on ground,) but with how hard you have to work, there should be more leeway. It's a tough thing to get up next to an MA and hit him. If he knows that your hit will be a dismount, at least you have some pressure, but generally he's gonna blast your horse hard if you come in on him, so you're not gonna get a chance to out DPS him or anything.
 

Tzone

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Do you even MO1? I dont think height was ever a factor in speed (except maybe visually) and they removed the con affecting speed in like 2014 iirc.
Height affects ms in this game and mo1 vets said being tall made you go faster in mo1 at first then they switched it to shorter made you faster because height was too op.
 

Hodo

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no doubt. I know most of that stuff. But still, more STR = better wep. 110 isn't enough to hold anything good and messing for instance.

Like I said I got one of the first video dismounts way back when people were still whining about MC sucking, so I know that is def possible and it is useful (except I'd like them to stay a bit longer on ground,) but with how hard you have to work, there should be more leeway. It's a tough thing to get up next to an MA and hit him. If he knows that your hit will be a dismount, at least you have some pressure, but generally he's gonna blast your horse hard if you come in on him, so you're not gonna get a chance to out DPS him or anything.

I have 90str and I can swing a 1h messing maul without much of an issue, and dismount with it all from horse back.
 
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