Faster Than Steel; Movement speed & Its relation to Armor and playstyles

[Jasa]

Now before I make this suggestion, know it comes from a place of love, for the archers (No not you horse archers) and Rogues. It is rather maddening that a Veela in steelplate 22kg+ can catch up to a max dex veela in 2.3kg rugged robes.

As of right now, outside of Action Point constraints having heavy armor has no downside once you have the weight for it. However, perhaps we are killing the playstyle of Rogues or Dex Fighters / Divers who would really mess up mages or be tasked with chasing someone down.

I humbly suggest that armor above 8kg incur a movement speed pen, Let us say every 1KG above 8KG increases armor movement speed pen by 5 points. This would make it so someone in heavy 22kg+ would lose 70~ points of movement speed. This sounds a bit overloaded so let's make a more realistic suggestion of every 2KG this would make 22kg lose 35 movement speed. It is not a ton, though it is enough.

I'm currently playing a 390-movement speed character in 18kg of armor. I'd be losing 50 to 25 movement speed, Putting me at 340 to 365.

 

[Tashka]

This would make it so someone in heavy 22kg+ would lose 70~ points of movement speed.

That would really be waaay too much. Like, combat speed difference between oghmir and veela is what, around 30 ups? That's a lot already. 5 points for every kg above 8? Some people are willing to go lean over stout or skinny over lean for that or even less than that.

I'm not really a fan of armor affecting movement speed (stamina is a different matter though). We don't have any CC abilities in MO2, so a mage/archer running 70 ups faster than any proper footie is gonna be legit OP.

But anyway, why 8kg? Give footies an option to not have their speed reduced while wearing their class armor, which would be around 16kg at the lower end. 16kg gives you heavy carapace + bloodsilk 55 slashing khurite splinted as the best option.

 

[Jasa]

That would really be waaay too much. Like, combat speed difference between oghmir and veela is what, around 30 ups? That's a lot already. 5 points for every kg above 8? Some people are willing to go lean over stout or skinny over lean for that or even less than that.

I'm not really a fan of armor affecting movement speed (stamina is a different matter though). We don't have any CC abilities in MO2, so a mage/archer running 70 ups faster than any proper footie is gonna be legit OP.

But anyway, why 8kg? Give footies an option to not have their speed reduced while wearing their class armor, which would be around 16kg at the lower end. 16kg gives you heavy carapace + bloodsilk 55 slashing khurite splinted as the best option.

I'd argue than that every KG above 18 should reduce speed by 5, this allows some wiggle room, would you say this is a fair compromise.

This would make 22kg just a 20 movementspeed pen. I just do not want Steelplate wearing footfighters to be able to dive to the same degree as someone who will be in lighter armor.

 

[Zazz]

I think a plain speed nerf might be too much for the combatsystem of MO2, though it is undeniable that heavy armor has too less downsides.

My suggestion would be an acceleration nerf for plate armor.
The heavier your armor, the longer it takes for you to achieve full speed, for instance 1-2 seconds to get to max speed. Couple that with some slight stam nerfs for long duration sprints and light armor will have a mobility benefit over heavy armor without heavy armor being absolute useless for chases.

That would also reflect on melee combat in general, not only giving light armor better chase potential, but also giving lighter armor the edge on mobility over heavy armor.

 

[ArcaneConsular]

There's really no reason to wear light armor. Just get absolutely shredded

 

[Jatix]

W to win isnt fun, I hate when someone can just run in a straight line and get away for free because ranged combat is shit while moving. Stam penalty is a much better option, makes it so in a longer chase they are worse but still have the potential to chase and kill before running out of stam.

And then theres mounted anyway. Wearing shit armor so u can go fast is a joke when they call a mounted that goes way faster than you in plate armor, kinda makes trying to go fast on foot pointless.

 

[Emdash]

There's really no reason to wear light armor. Just get absolutely shredded

hue hue. Wait til you someone jumps somewhere you can't go I finally got my ass blasted in khurite splinted, but they had a weak spot dagger, still wew. Basically 40+ resist= ok. And I agree with Jatix on the stam thing but nobody wanted that. I know the stam thing is still a factor cuz I never stam out (or rarely) wearing light armor. It's hyperbuffed by alv clade, too, tho.

They do need a medium metal pieces armor tho imo.

RE mount: yea I was outrunning a few people around Bakti and thought I got away then some fatmage was casting death hand into my ear.

 

[Hodo]

Now before I make this suggestion, know it comes from a place of love, for the archers (No not you horse archers) and Rogues. It is rather maddening that a Veela in steelplate 22kg+ can catch up to a max dex veela in 2.3kg rugged robes.

As of right now, outside of Action Point constraints having heavy armor has no downside once you have the weight for it. However, perhaps we are killing the playstyle of Rogues or Dex Fighters / Divers who would really mess up mages or be tasked with chasing someone down.

I humbly suggest that armor above 8kg incur a movement speed pen, Let us say every 1KG above 8KG increases armor movement speed pen by 5 points. This would make it so someone in heavy 22kg+ would lose 70~ points of movement speed. This sounds a bit overloaded so let's make a more realistic suggestion of every 2KG this would make 22kg lose 35 movement speed. It is not a ton, though it is enough.

I'm currently playing a 390-movement speed character in 18kg of armor. I'd be losing 50 to 25 movement speed, Putting me at 340 to 365.

This has been suggested time and time again.

The other suggestion which is also out there is make stamina regen scale like mana regen. Above 12kg of armor it takes HEAVY penalties. So at 22kg you would be down to 25% stam regen. This would solve SEVERAL issues, it would remove the stupid spin jump fights and it would prevent some guy in 22kg of armor from keeping up with ANYONE in robes for any length of time.

 

[Nefnate]

IMO it shouldn't be an argument or even a discussion, outside of the particulars of the penalties.

Heavy Armor is heavy. It should both slow you down and make you fatigue faster.
You could also say that arm armor should effect weapon swing speed.

People get upset because they don't want to die in 2-6 shots, but then clap back and scream that it is a hardcore game. So, suck it up?

Light Armor doesn't need to be buffed if HA is changed, it's benefits are intrinsic. It is light, easier to swim, better stam, better mobility. The true "hardcore" players would be in light armor to maximize their skill expression.

+1 to the idea of HA being "nerfed" to the place it should be. Heavy armor.

The Heavy Armor Training Skill could simply bump up the cap for penalties a bit, and lessen the effect of them, but they need to remain.

 

[grendel]

errr... ask any reenactor who used plate armor. You can swim in plate, do backflips in plate and sprint in plate. Mayte the penalty should be only on stam usage.

 

[Jatix]

The other thing to keep in midn in ruining heavy armor, is that currently the 'best' materials in the game are heavy armor mats. So nerfing heavy armor also makes the end game materials not worth getting. Would be ideal if you could make cron and ogh light and medium armor. then its not a nerf to the materials.

It always bugged me in MO1 that if you wanted to use light / medium armor you were limited to junk. Cosmoid being added later helped a bit but it was still junk compared to steel+. So you had to use weaker armor types with weaker materials making the difference huge. If yuzu could make cron light / medium armor, it would still be cron but be weaker than heavier armor making a good middle ground of good stats but not the best stats.

 

[Camarro DaMortas]

errr... ask any reenactor who used plate armor. You can swim in plate, do backflips in plate and sprint in plate. Mayte the penalty should be only on stam usage.

I used to do re-enactment, and I had no problems with running and jumping in heavy armour - BUT - I was still slower than somebody with light or no armour.

From a gameplay point of view, choices should mean trade offs. Currently there is virtually no downside to wearing heavy armour. It would increase choice and interest if lighter armours were viable choices.

 

[Nefnate]

errr... ask any reenactor who used plate armor. You can swim in plate, do backflips in plate and sprint in plate. Mayte the penalty should be only on stam usage.

Yes, you can, but it wears you out faster than without, no? And it would impact your ability to do so when compared to those in less or none?

 

[grendel]

Yes, you can, but it wears you out faster than without, no? And it would impact your ability to do so when compared to those in less or none?

Well yes, that was my point, more stamusage for hvy armors.

I used to do re-enactment, and I had no problems with running and jumping in heavy armour - BUT - I was still slower than somebody with light or no armour.

From a gameplay point of view, choices should mean trade offs. Currently there is virtually no downside to wearing heavy armour. It would increase choice and interest if lighter armours were viable choices.

Good point. Maybe a slightly less sprint speed/or a 1sec time to make sprint speed as well as more stam usage.

 

[Jatix]

Heavy Armor is heavy. It should both slow you down and make you fatigue faster.
You could also say that arm armor should effect weapon swing speed.

People also need to keep in mind that games are supposed to be fun. and realism and fun usually don't go together. Theres no fun in getting better gear when the better gear makes you worse. Especially with how easy parrying is nobody would use better armor if it made you swing so slow that you couldn't land a hit. So it needs to be balanced in a way that the better gear is still better enough to be worth its downsides.

 

[Emdash]

I dunno if this is true or not, but it seems true. I am a person who wears lite armor, med armor, and heavy... not like 22 heavy yet. I climb a lot. We all know fall dmg, but I feel like heavier armor makes you slip more. So yea, make armor less strong (plate,) but allow you to climb and jump as before, maybe more! Changing up jump numbers would be cool, too. Make jump higher and make it nerf harder. This would hit alvs w/ combat leap hard, but the magi could be major hopping. Still, I kinda think at this point any the game, anyone w/ hands out should be able to full jump.

I almost never w 1v1 because of lite armor. But I know in most cases how many hits I can take, how I can get out, so I go in on a heavy arrmor person and go back out. Ideally, I'd be stamming them out over time, but it doesn't work like that so well. Also interesting idea is to raise stam out 'cap' for heavier armor, so imagine stamming out at like your armor wt x 1.5 or something if you're over 10. You could still fight and go to 0 but you would be going deeper in the hole and not be able to run.

Just need some creativity, think people, let's all think!

 

[Nefnate]

People also need to keep in mind that games are supposed to be fun. and realism and fun usually don't go together. Theres no fun in getting better gear when the better gear makes you worse. Especially with how easy parrying is nobody would use better armor if it made you swing so slow that you couldn't land a hit. So it needs to be balanced in a way that the better gear is still better enough to be worth its downsides.

Slower / less stam isn't inherently worse if you take twice as long to die. If you don't find that fun, use lighter armor. Also, why assume the mention of swing speed would be so drastic? It was a random spitball, not a condemnation.

Yes it would all need to be balanced, but that doesn't mean appealing to those who want to be godly. It means following a path where choices matter and are impactful. Roles are important. One style of build and armor should not be the default.

 

[Hodo]

Slower / less stam isn't inherently worse if you take twice as long to die. If you don't find that fun, use lighter armor. Also, why assume the mention of swing speed would be so drastic? It was a random spitball, not a condemnation.

Yes it would all need to be balanced, but that doesn't mean appealing to those who want to be godly. It means following a path where choices matter and are impactful. Roles are important. One style of build and armor should not be the default.

Exactly it should be a trade.

Speed for longevity.

This is the fundamental rule of balance in gaming.

Things that go fast shouldnt be tough, things that are tough shouldnt be fast.

While realistically this isnt always the case... looking at you M1A2 Abrams.

 

[Jatix]

My issue with the speed thing is its very easy to get out of range and stay out of range in MO (if the speed difference is enough to actually matter). Which just means you virtually cant die. Its like mounted v foot but bot hare foot. The fast one can run heal repeat. But the slow one cant do either. Group fights would be a bit different. But small scale, kiting etc slow would just be ass. Which is why I'm more for the penalty being stam penalty, which matters in the longer run but you can still chase for a short time and get the kill if you outplay them. I hate raw speed advantages because there's 0 skill involved. its just 'hold W'.