Destroyable Buildings

[Domtomsen]

I just wanted to confirm something.

I just realized that i could hurt my Stronghold and my house nearby with my normal weopons and it lost lifepoints. That was not the case some weeks ago.
Did they patch this into the game, or is our Stronghold and our house kinda bugged.

 

[Jackdstripper]

Maybe it was bugged before. All buildings take damage from hammers and the likes, but its usually only a few points of damage. That makes taking down any building incredibly tedious and unfeasible without sieging equipment.

 

[Kaemik]

Yeah you have always been able to take down everything. Even keeps. But if you math out how many people you would need to Age of Empires it for how many hours and how many reppers it would take to undo all that work, there is basically no point attempting right now. Anything larger than a T1 house is outside the realm of even tryhards.

 

[Mauganra]

An attempt on a stronghold was recently made by various guildes. It took 20 hours with alot of people (Between 30 - 50 at anytime) hitting it with hammers to get it to 500k health.

This equates to (30+50)/2 = A whooping great 800 man hours spent trying to kill at Strong Hold.

These kinds of numbers seem far too hard to kill a Stronghold and yet, the game has a very heavy political system side to it where guilds and alliances become territorial.

Mo2 NEED to bring out siege weapons as soon as possible, otherwise it will be too hard to stop one large Alliance from just dominating the one and only server for the whole world.

@Henrik Nyström this is important.

 

[Exiledkhallisi]

An attempt on a stronghold was recently made by various guildes. It took 20 hours with alot of people (Between 30 - 50 at anytime) hitting it with hammers to get it to 500k health.

This equates to (30+50)/2 = A whooping great 800 man hours spent trying to kill at Strong Hold.

These kinds of numbers seem far too hard to kill a Stronghold and yet, the game has a very heavy political system side to it where guilds and alliances become territorial.

Mo2 NEED to bring out siege weapons as soon as possible, otherwise it will be too hard to stop one large Alliance from just dominating the one and only server for the whole world.

@Henrik Nyström this is important.

Pssst...

You gonna be even more mad when you find out you can only craft a seige weapon if you control a seige camp.

Also, they have to be very carful with Seige mechanics.....if a group of 2 or 3 sh**ters can easily destroy a house .. people will quit in droves. There will be no point in owning a house if so.

 

[Kaemik]

The balance of siege weapons should be based on cost, not making it exclusive to zergs. The ability for smaller groups to be able to mount meaningful resistances to zergs is critical for the success of games like this. But I can see why you'd lobby against it. I feel like KOTO very much has the mentality of advocating for mechanics that will sink the game so long as their flag is the last thing visible before it dips beneath the waves.

Shouldn't be much longer before you get that wish based on the rate things are going.

 

[Turbizzler]

The balance of siege weapons should be based on cost, not making it exclusive to zergs. The ability for smaller groups to be able to mount meaningful resistances to zergs is critical for the success of games like this. But I can see why you'd lobby against it. I feel like KOTO very much has the mentality of advocating for mechanics that will sink the game so long as their flag is the last thing visible before it dips beneath the waves.

Shouldn't be much longer before you get that wish based on the rate things are going.

This is pretty much it, has been their Muttra since MO1. They only care about balance, when it suits how they play. If they can't do their thing because X thing doesn't favor them, then in their mind it's wrong and shouldn't be apart of the game. Though this mentality is amongst a lot of gamers, people don't like change, especially if it takes away their advantage, even if it would be a healthy change. BUT in terms of MO, KOTO has always been one of these entities.

I personally think purchase of Mangs(Catapults) and Trebuchets should be exclusive to Keep owning guilds, but just like MO1 you could loot them from lockpicking chests or trade in demon pillars(I think it was these) to obtain one from an NPC. Boulders were world spawns too. So it gives smaller guilds an option, outside of having to haggle or hold hands to obtain major siege engines. It just required time in the world to obtain them outside of the Keep rout.

Basic things like battering rams and hail casters(Ballista) should be purchasable at a TC Building, like they were in MO1. In saying this too, there needs to be more defensive options for defenders, like wall & roof mounted hail casters, as well as things like a boiling oil pot for gateways.

 

[Albanjo Dravae]

An attempt on a stronghold was recently made by various guildes. It took 20 hours with alot of people (Between 30 - 50 at anytime) hitting it with hammers to get it to 500k health.

This equates to (30+50)/2 = A whooping great 800 man hours spent trying to kill at Strong Hold.

These kinds of numbers seem far too hard to kill a Stronghold and yet, the game has a very heavy political system side to it where guilds and alliances become territorial.

Mo2 NEED to bring out siege weapons as soon as possible, otherwise it will be too hard to stop one large Alliance from just dominating the one and only server for the whole world.

@Henrik Nyström this is important.

Uhmmm theres bigger domain with sieging. It's a little naive to pretend zergs wont Flex, it depends on how Is the sieging system going to be, but by the quality of the content SV delivers I'd say sieging will be one of strongest nails in the game's coffin.

 

[Hodo]

An attempt on a stronghold was recently made by various guildes. It took 20 hours with alot of people (Between 30 - 50 at anytime) hitting it with hammers to get it to 500k health.

This equates to (30+50)/2 = A whooping great 800 man hours spent trying to kill at Strong Hold.

These kinds of numbers seem far too hard to kill a Stronghold and yet, the game has a very heavy political system side to it where guilds and alliances become territorial.

Mo2 NEED to bring out siege weapons as soon as possible, otherwise it will be too hard to stop one large Alliance from just dominating the one and only server for the whole world.

@Henrik Nyström this is important.

Then that targeted guild will just go around losing the asset by using outside sources for gold to get another one....

We NEED siege!!!!

 

[Jackdstripper]

Large guilds will always, always, always have the advantage over small ones. To demand that siege is made fair between a 10 man guild vs a 500 man guild is the most ridiculous and entitled demand ever.

It takes A LOT of work to make and maintain a 500 man guild(or coalition). Work that most guilds aren't able or willing to do. Instead of bitching about those few large coalition that have managed to do it, go and make one yourself and see just how hard it is to build one, and then keep it together. There is a reason only few of them succeed.

Having said that, yes sieging is absolutely overdue. But it needs to be expensive and they need to prevent ninja sieging.

Small guilds have to do what every small rules has always had to do throughout the whole of history: make allies with the strong and powerful. This by the way is the way coalitions begin.

 

[Kaemik]

Nobody is demanding anything be made fair. What is being advocated by the zergs is that you cannot build siege weapons without owning a keep so only keep owning guilds can siege houses.

Anyone who believes that is a good mechanic is an idiot.

 

[Exiledkhallisi]

Nobody is demanding anything be made fair. What is being advocated by the zergs is that you cannot build siege weapons without owning a keep so only keep owning guilds can siege houses.

Anyone who believes that is a good mechanic is an idiot.

What we know so far

You will need to hold a seige camp to seige if you do not own a keep. You will also be able to find/purchase seige weapons. They will be very expensive.


So..take your little group...And attack a seige camp.... good luck, better bring some allies.

It is realistic though, if 5-10 dudes were seen pushing a catapult towards a castle in the midievel era... you bet your ass they gon have a bad day.

 

[Kaemik]

It is not realistic. You did not need to hold a castle to build a catapult to siege a house. Nor is it good game design.

5-10 people should absolutely be able to build a catapult and knock down a house if they want. Anything else is a nonsensical mechanic that favors mega zergs for no reason. Why are you so afraid of 5-10 people building catapults you would seek to deny them that if they will truly have no impact?

 

[Exiledkhallisi]

It is not realistic. You did not need to hold a castle to build a catapult to siege a house. Nor is it good game design.

5-10 people should absolutely be able to build a catapult and knock down a house if they want. Anything else is a nonsensical mechanic that favors mega zergs for no reason. Why are you so afraid of 5-10 people building catapults you would seek to deny them that if they will truly have no impact?

Stated clearly by Henrik.. assaulting a house wont really be worth it unless its in the vicinity of a keep or SH. Henrik today said "they learned their lesson with the first game" in regards to seiging personal houses.

 

[Kaemik]

Henrik needs to get a clue then. You can't tell me all the houses used to harass KOTO in the Meduli area won't get demoed week one of siege weapons being out. Other groups have just as valid of reasons to go out and knock down houses that are a threat to their area. Even 5-10 man groups.

 

[Turbizzler]

Stated clearly by Henrik.. assaulting a house wont really be worth it unless its in the vicinity of a keep or SH. Henrik today said "they learned their lesson with the first game" in regards to seiging personal houses.

His reasoning for this, was due to large groups, alliances etc Ninja sieging in the first game. Mass alliances would siege houses, keeps and villages, during others guilds and alliances off hours. It was a bit of a problem, because it was super difficult to defend your assets. So SV's answer to this was NPC guards integrated into TC...which just improved one issue, but made a completely new issue lol Guilds like RPK and FATE were notorious for this. Shit RPK had a yearly thing where they would ninja siege on Christmas eve, every year lol KOTO in MO1 was known for their ninja maul sieges of TC towers.

Small guilds sieging wasn't the reason SV/Henrik are thinking this way, it's the opposite.

 

[Kaemik]

There are real solutions to this problem. They wouldn't be quick/simple mechanics. But they would be worth investing the time into.

Siege Mechanics - Outposts

I've floated this idea in the past but this is a more refined version of the same suggestion updated to complement changes in game mechanics since the original system. At it's heart there are three things I believe this system can accomplish for MO2: 1. This is a carrot system, designed to...

mortalonline2.com

Quick summary of how that relates to houses.

"So what does influence do? It grants defensive benefits to the structures of all buildings belonging to that guild/alliance inside the region, as well as groups that have declared support for that guild/alliance (That guild/alliance can reject their support if they don't want this). These are things like increased HP, increased damage resist, even potentially the ability to convert stored resources into slow automatic repairs. Additionally they grant offensive benefits against structures to members of the guild/alliance only. These are things like increased hammer and catapult damage and the ability to build certain things such as battering rams, siege towers, and siege ladders at a siege camp near the keep."

That applies just as much to houses and strongholds as keeps. It allows you to deal with threats in an area you have influence, while groups crossing the map just to screw with someone would have a hard time taking down assets (including houses) without investing considerable time into building influence in that region first.