Dec/Jan Roadmap Discussion

[Darthus]

Here's the current forum post updated with the latest roadmap (and history):

Road Map

I'm just putting this here for my sakes cause I always have to go Google it to find it.

mortalonline2.com

Official link here if it's hard to read:

Beta HotFix Notes 0.1.2.11 - Mortal Online 2

A couple of days and we already have a hotfix for you!Haven is now a safe logout zone, the broker got some fixes, several crashes has been solved and the game now uses multit-hreaded rendering that boosts performance up to 40+ FPS in some places Added: Added missing Trade Broker to Tindrem...

www.mortalonline2.com

What do you all think? Some high level things I noticed:

• The rest of December appears to be focused on PvE (guards and AI) and polish. Haven and Ecumenical Magic and Guild System have been moved out.
• Magic has been pushed back to Under Development (perhaps implying more magic types prior to Persistent Release?)
• Haven is nowhere to be seen, which seems odd to me. It's always seemed one of the most important things to have in the game prior to Persistent Release and will probably require a decent amount of playtesting.
• Auction house, Gore and Clade gifts added as under development.

 

[Necromantic]

• Magic has been pushed back to Under Development (perhaps implying more magic types prior to Persistent Release?)

Bah, magic has been shoved off completely. And no it just means we'll get it later. Because more magic was already under development for after Ecumenical.
Basic character customization has also been pushed back which is one of the core things that needs testing because all combat balancing is meaningless when the attributes aren't balanced.
Apparently guards and dungeons are more important.

And why Engine updates have any priority makes no sense for the time being! It's also an update, not an upgrade, learn the difference!
Unless they are talking about UE5, which I doubt. It's probably going to be 4.26 which doesn't actually add that much for actual features:

Unreal Engine 4.26 released!

Download now to get new features and enhancements for industries across the board.

www.unrealengine.com

 

[Darthus]

Bah, magic has been shoved off completely. And no it just means we'll get it later. Because more magic was already under development for after Ecumenical.
Basic character customization has also been pushed back which is one of the core things that needs testing because all combat balancing is meaningless when the attributes aren't balanced.
Apparently guards and dungeons are more important.

And why Engine updates have any priority makes no sense for the time being! It's also an update, not an upgrade, learn the difference!
Unless they are talking about UE5, which I doubt. It's probably going to be 4.26 which doesn't actually add that much for actual features:

Unreal Engine 4.26 released!

Download now to get new features and enhancements for industries across the board.

www.unrealengine.com

Yeah, I saw Seb in discord confirm that the original magic implementation was intended to be very basic with a lot of placeholder fx and so this is more fully fledged. I think they were rushing a lot of these systems in a super basic way for EA at end of December, so are now considering what they should implement in a more fleshed out way.

On 4.26, I do see upgrades for both clouds and water, which seem meaningful. My friend and I have noticed a good number of wonky water shaders in rivers etc and there is little interaction visually between the character and water. Plus, perhaps the additional nature/clouds stuff enables the "more weather" they added in.

They have stated two goals for MO2 over MO1:

1. More accesible.
2. More PvE style content.

For #1, I'm surprised Haven was moved out (or just not on there), seems critical for making a good first impression and easing in new players. And for #2, I see guards/PvE AI being prioritized as a good thing, again for creating an easier onramp for new players. It doesn't mean it's a PvE game but PvE content is the easiest to get into, allowing them to do something comfortable and obvious while they get exposed to PvP/deeper systems.

 

[Necromantic]

Graphical improvements don't count as features to me, those are fluff. They can improve immersion but in the end gameplay is what counts. And UE 4.26 adds very little for that.

Guards aren't PvE, guards are just more flagging/punishment system, which in itself is already purely PvP. Taming and horses and other fauna would be far more important PvE. Especially now with cooking and other stuff that needs materials.

 

[Darthus]

Graphical improvements don't count as features to me, those are fluff. They can improve immersion but in the end gameplay is what counts. And UE 4.26 adds very little for that.

Guards aren't PvE, guards are just more flagging/punishment system, which in itself is already purely PvP. Taming and horses and other fauna would be far more important PvE. Especially now with cooking and other stuff that needs materials.

Agreed that guards aren't PvE, but they are in the interest of accessibility for EA (to give new players some sense of basic safety).

PvE AI and New Dungeons implies PvE (PvE AI implies adding PvE mobs into the world/dungeons but they don't explictly say that). Dungeons with no PvE is kinda pointless. Apparently Risar are PvE? I don't know the lore. Seb is saying we can expect melee and ranged humanoids by the end of december and that they use the same weapons and armor system as players, so they can have a wide variety of behavior just by giving different equipment. Also claiming that more AI communication will be in.

Taming and Horses has been stated as intended prior to EA, but apparently not in Dec/Jan (Henrik has stated it's quite difficult in terms of balancing and proper implementation).

 

[Kaemik]

So apparently they were originally planning to have like just a few spells in and placeholder animations and decided to polish/launch the entire system at once.

Personally, I'd rather see them throw in just a couple of spells with the placeholder animations. For multiple reasons:

1. If we don't get magic until Feb we have to endure two+ more months of "combat is too slow" and "parry is op" by people who can't get it through their heads that melees with maxed armor training and 100+ str and con are tanks. Even just Tlash would help get the combat feeling a bit more rounded.

2. People who want to play mages are kind of getting tired of practicing a melee system we won't be using. I'd REALLY like to get down to playing something that somewhat resembles the build I'll be playing eventually. Even if it's just dumping all my mana on the same offensive ability over and over and over at least being able to land Tlashes is relevant to my final build. Plus the feedback from one or two spells would undoubtedly be useful in implementing the rest.

3. Getting a single spell in means mana means something. Mana meaning something means lighter armor meaning something. That partially feeds into point 1, and partially just means a lot of existing content that is underutilized will get tested more thoroughly.

 

[Darthus]

A couple Discord notes from Henrik:

• Haven will be in prior to Persistent, and he considers it very important. Sounds like they plan to have another kinda “stress test” style event with that in to gather feedback.
• He claims that release speed was increased 33% in the current patch and that they are testing a new combat system in the test server right now.

 

[Handsome Young Man]

A couple Discord notes from Henrik:

• Haven will be in prior to Persistent, and he considers it very important. Sounds like they plan to have another kinda “stress test” style event with that in to gather feedback.
• He claims that release speed was increased 33% in the current patch and that they are testing a new combat system in the test server right now.

Sounds good.

 

[Darthus]

Sounds good.

Wow, I think that's the most succinct and satisfied post I've seen from you HYM, they must be on the right track. =)

 

[Handsome Young Man]

Wow, I think that's the most succinct and satisfied post I've seen from you HYM, they must be on the right track. =)

New players getting a proper environment to learn / grow / understand the game is important. When I started in MO1 I was taught...

- How to equip my weapon
- How to pull it out
- How to swing
- How to loot
- How to butcher (in the field, without explanation of lores)
- How to interact with an NPC
- Using a crafting table to make armor (With no explanation of lores, only amounts via slider)
- Basic taming (With no explanation of lores)

And then I was thrust out into the game.

I got griefed, griefed, and griefed some more. I got robbed, backstabbed, trolled.. you name it. I was pretty fucking helpless early days of playing and didn't know who to associate with or what the fuck to do to teach myself. But being stubborn I stuck through it and learned through all the bullshit by word of mouth, research, and just playing the game organically.

While I find my 'upbringing' in MO1 will always be something I cherish and appreciate, I think new players deserve more tutelage then what I got. They need to understand PvP, they need to understand crafting and how lores work, etc. etc.

 

[Putzin]

So apparently they were originally planning to have like just a few spells in and placeholder animations and decided to polish/launch the entire system at once.

Personally, I'd rather see them throw in just a couple of spells with the placeholder animations. For multiple reasons:

1. If we don't get magic until Feb we have to endure two+ more months of "combat is too slow" and "parry is op" by people who can't get it through their heads that melees with maxed armor training and 100+ str and con are tanks. Even just Tlash would help get the combat feeling a bit more rounded.

2. People who want to play mages are kind of getting tired of practicing a melee system we won't be using. I'd REALLY like to get down to playing something that somewhat resembles the build I'll be playing eventually. Even if it's just dumping all my mana on the same offensive ability over and over and over at least being able to land Tlashes is relevant to my final build. Plus the feedback from one or two spells would undoubtedly be useful in implementing the rest.

3. Getting a single spell in means mana means something. Mana meaning something means lighter armor meaning something. That partially feeds into point 1, and partially just means a lot of existing content that is underutilized will get tested more thoroughly.

This was perfectly said.

Even just a heal for group fight combat testing would be nice at this point. Or corrupt to more easily finish people running off.

 

[Darthus]

New players getting a proper environment to learn / grow / understand the game is important. When I started in MO1 I was taught...

- How to equip my weapon
- How to pull it out
- How to swing
- How to loot
- How to butcher (in the field, without explanation of lores)
- How to interact with an NPC
- Using a crafting table to make armor (With no explanation of lores, only amounts via slider)
- Basic taming (With no explanation of lores)

And then I was thrust out into the game.

I got griefed, griefed, and griefed some more. I got robbed, backstabbed, trolled.. you name it. I was pretty fucking helpless early days of playing and didn't know who to associate with or what the fuck to do to teach myself. But being stubborn I stuck through it and learned through all the bullshit by word of mouth, research, and just playing the game organically.

While I find my 'upbringing' in MO1 will always be something I cherish and appreciate, I think new players deserve more tutelage then what I got. They need to understand PvP, they need to understand crafting and how lores work, etc. etc.

Glad you see it that way and not the often held “I had to learn it the hard way and it made me stronger, so new people just have to toughen up.”

 

[ThaBadMan]

New players getting a proper environment to learn / grow / understand the game is important. When I started in MO1 I was taught...

- How to equip my weapon
- How to pull it out
- How to swing
- How to loot
- How to butcher (in the field, without explanation of lores)
- How to interact with an NPC
- Using a crafting table to make armor (With no explanation of lores, only amounts via slider)
- Basic taming (With no explanation of lores)

And then I was thrust out into the game.

I got griefed, griefed, and griefed some more. I got robbed, backstabbed, trolled.. you name it. I was pretty fucking helpless early days of playing and didn't know who to associate with or what the fuck to do to teach myself. But being stubborn I stuck through it and learned through all the bullshit by word of mouth, research, and just playing the game organically.

While I find my 'upbringing' in MO1 will always be something I cherish and appreciate, I think new players deserve more tutelage then what I got. They need to understand PvP, they need to understand crafting and how lores work, etc. etc.

Totally agree.
Myself and all other CBT stagers got into the game naked in the middle of nowhere (Stage Aers like myself in the middle of sausage lake to drown) we had to learn everything because there was no tutorial and noone knew anything in the game.

A good tutorial is needed to teach all basics. Haven is a good starting point for this since its a yellow island. Once they have learned the early to early mid game they are ready for Myrland but not before they get a good introduction to the flagging system, PvP and griefing explained. For example that getting killed in the wilderness is not but spawn camping is griefing.
I am actually surprised on how many players have a highly scewed view on what griefing is.

 

[Eldrath]

Totally agree.
Myself and all other CBT stagers got into the game naked in the middle of nowhere (Stage Aers like myself in the middle of sausage lake to drown) we had to learn everything because there was no tutorial and noone knew anything in the game.

A good tutorial is needed to teach all basics. Haven is a good starting point for this since its a yellow island. Once they have learned the early to early mid game they are ready for Myrland but not before they get a good introduction to the flagging system, PvP and griefing explained. For example that getting killed in the wilderness is not but spawn camping is griefing.
I am actually surprised on how many players have a highly scewed view on what griefing is.

It´s a political term. Everything someone else does to me is griefing, everything I do to them is game play.

I mean, look at how the word "grief" is used in normal language. Using it for any part of video game is frankly disgusting.

Personally I think creating a responsive and functioning UI is more important than any tutorial. I have skipped every tutorial I could and most of the I was fine. There are certain games (like MO1) that do a poor job and you can´t understand what is happening without guidance.

PvP, flagging, looting, death etc. need to be the top priority. I think anyone who managed to install steam and is interested in Mortal ONline 2 will be able to figure out how keys work. Do a basic introducting to resources and crafting. I actually don´t think that "Haven" is necessary, but for some reason SV thinks it´s important. A normal tutorial in a single player enviroment would probably work better.

 

[you]

It´s a political term. Everything someone else does to me is griefing, everything I do to them is game play.

I mean, look at how the word "grief" is used in normal language. Using it for any part of video game is frankly disgusting.

Personally I think creating a responsive and functioning UI is more important than any tutorial. I have skipped every tutorial I could and most of the I was fine. There are certain games (like MO1) that do a poor job and you can´t understand what is happening without guidance.

PvP, flagging, looting, death etc. need to be the top priority. I think anyone who managed to install steam and is interested in Mortal ONline 2 will be able to figure out how keys work. Do a basic introducting to resources and crafting. I actually don´t think that "Haven" is necessary, but for some reason SV thinks it´s important. A normal tutorial in a single player enviroment would probably work better.

I agree, i think a safehaven should be strictly only to let the player understand the bare minimum for survival, teaching people through automated systems contaminates the integrity of the game and removes some incentive to pursue relationships with people while looking to obtain valuable information. (therefore removing some of the adventuring aspect of the game).
While we need to introduce our new players properly and give them a good start, babying them too much or streamlining the process could have a massive impact on the game they are trying to create.

I believe the devs probably know this by now and is trying to find that fine line there goes to balancing this system that they are trying to create, but then again only time will tell.

 

[Khanate]

Bah, magic has been shoved off completely. And no it just means we'll get it later. Because more magic was already under development for after Ecumenical.
Basic character customization has also been pushed back which is one of the core things that needs testing because all combat balancing is meaningless when the attributes aren't balanced.
Apparently guards and dungeons are more important.

And why Engine updates have any priority makes no sense for the time being! It's also an update, not an upgrade, learn the difference!
Unless they are talking about UE5, which I doubt. It's probably going to be 4.26 which doesn't actually add that much for actual features:

Unreal Engine 4.26 released!

Download now to get new features and enhancements for industries across the board.

www.unrealengine.com

Upgrading to the newest engine version is important for a smoother transition to 5.0.
Also, it might seem like 4.26 has little to offer for those who do not use UE in a professional manner but it has major upgrades to world composition, water shaders, fur performance and a few more interesting things which will be useful for SV. It has been a hyped update amongst UE developers for a while now.

Upgrading to a new engine version could also take time, as things are bound to break (although Epic has become much better at merging Engine/project versions) especially when it comes to such a huge project as a MMORPG.

So don't just throw such an important aspect of game development to the side just because it does not introduce some fancy features for you to play with.

(Although SV might have already upgraded themselves to 4.26 and are scheduling a new upgrade)

 

[Solairerection]

Have they given any detail of why magic has been pushed forward at a later date? Like if it's a overhaul from how it worked in MO1 and so need time to be developed properly.

Overall I think the roadmap looks good. I wouldn't mind if both magic and guild system got bumped up in priorities so we can get some guild wars going, but I can understand if people are more excited to see how the new AI will pan out, and so am I to be honest.

 

[Kaemik]

They said that the original plan was to launch just a few spells with placeholder animations and now they want to release it as a fully polished package. Personally, I told them I'd rather have something simple sooner. I'm not playing an alpha for fully polished but I am getting rather tired of being stuck as a foot-fighter.

 

[billbonty]

Henrik said in discord they are considering other casting options. We're talking a combination of projectile and hitscan. It seems they do not have a definite stance on the issue. As we remember from mo1, many spells were hitscan when they were really projectiles in the animation. Here is the main convo from discord when he talked about it recently. Based on how this reads, they are improving the subjective "realism" of casting ecumenical spells. Spells like fireball could be projectiles, while spells like lesser healing and corrupt would stay hitscan. Like archery and the other systems, it seems we are getting improvements and not just a copy/paste which is awesome news and very exciting.

 

[Evelyn Darkwave]

So apparently they were originally planning to have like just a few spells in and placeholder animations and decided to polish/launch the entire system at once.

Personally, I'd rather see them throw in just a couple of spells with the placeholder animations. For multiple reasons:

1. If we don't get magic until Feb we have to endure two+ more months of "combat is too slow" and "parry is op" by people who can't get it through their heads that melees with maxed armor training and 100+ str and con are tanks. Even just Tlash would help get the combat feeling a bit more rounded.

2. People who want to play mages are kind of getting tired of practicing a melee system we won't be using. I'd REALLY like to get down to playing something that somewhat resembles the build I'll be playing eventually. Even if it's just dumping all my mana on the same offensive ability over and over and over at least being able to land Tlashes is relevant to my final build. Plus the feedback from one or two spells would undoubtedly be useful in implementing the rest.

3. Getting a single spell in means mana means something. Mana meaning something means lighter armor meaning something. That partially feeds into point 1, and partially just means a lot of existing content that is underutilized will get tested more thoroughly.

Kaemik sums it up nicer than I can, because I am too salty that bow crafting and fucking nasty ass beards are coming in before any kind of magic for us to test, which will have a whole 1 month to test before persistence.