Combat is boring, a note to Henrik.

[Javelin]

I played Mortal 1, I ran a guild that spent all day getting into trouble, fighting all the time. I was looking forward to returning to the adrenaline filled world of Nave.... and then I logged in.

What in the hell has happened to the combat? It's slow, everything has such a long windup you'd have to be 12 beers in to miss your parry.

Did the community ask for this? I know our guys (and likely a cross section of the main demographic this game will aim to capture) are coming from games like Mordhau where combat is fast paced and complex. Where you can feign an action to fake out your opponent, you can be tactical with what you do because it doesn't take 10 seconds to swing once.

This combat just feels like baby mode and I would like to assume that most of you here don't need training diapers, do you? People have better internet on average then they did during mortal 1 and the combat was faster back then so why are things going backwards?

To Henrik: for your game to make money it needs to target the demographic that is most likely to play it, that demographic plays games like Mordhau and Last Oasis. Look to Mordhau as your main modern-ish example, steal what works, change what doesn't but whatever you do, do NOT leave it in the snooze fest state it is in. If you need help getting there I am sure I can find you some Myrmidons that would be willing to help you out with constructive feedback like we did for you in Mortal 1. Just DM me or Meralious. We want you to succeed.

-Javelin
Founder of Myrmidon

-edited to correct Henrik's name spelling.

 

[Handsome Young Man]

Couldnt agree more.

 

[Dracu]

Mordhau and MO2 are not quite the same thing...
MO2 has to work with every ping range from 10 ping to 300+ ping... and make it work somehow in a fair way.
That means the combat system needs to be synced accordingly in other words across the board.
Faster combat has many downsides in terms of balance.
Also... the combat is not finished yet thats what we know, there are things to be added ontop to offer more variety in combat.

 

[Necromantic]

Honestly, that's the only demographic that was left playing Mortal after everyone else left because they had nothing to do, by far not the only demographic that looked at this game.
No matter how you look at it: To have meaningful combat you need to first Only then can you have things of value to fight over. And that has never been something MO1 truly achieved because most features, even not directly related to combat focused around combat.

More and more people are looking for a more in-depth experience online. Even many people that would have in the past enjoyed the simple concepts of thempark MMOs are getting tired of that and can't find anything deeper to play. And a real sandbox a combat focus does not make.

Also I don't know how people expect for Henrik to take anything serious when they always misspell his name.

 

[Wesley Snipes]

I played Mortal 1, I ran a guild that spent all day getting into trouble, fighting all the time. I was looking forward to returning to the adrenaline filled world of Nave.... and then I logged in.

What in the hell has happened to the combat? It's slow, everything has such a long windup you'd have to be 12 beers in to miss your parry.

Did the community ask for this? I know our guys (and likely a cross section of the main demographic this game will aim to capture) are coming from games like Mordhau where combat is fast paced and complex. Where you can feign an action to fake out your opponent, you can be tactical with what you do because it doesn't take 10 seconds to swing once.

This combat just feels like baby mode and I would like to assume that most of you here don't need training diapers, do you? People have better internet on average then they did during mortal 1 and the combat was faster back then so why are things going backwards?

To Heinrich: for your game to make money it needs to target the demographic that is most likely to play it, that demographic plays games like Mordhau and Last Oasis. Look to Mordhau as your main modern-ish example, steal what works, change what doesn't but whatever you do, do NOT leave it in the snooze fest state it is in. If you need help getting there I am sure I can find you some Myrmidons that would be willing to help you out with constructive feedback like we did for you in Mortal 1. Just DM me or Meralious. We want you to succeed.

-Javelin
Founder of Myrmidon

What you're asking for is the complexity of a smaller scale game with regional servers paired with the complexity of the massive network structure of an MMORPG. Technology unfortunately isn't there yet, especially when we're all playing on a single world. If we had regional servers, maybe you could have your cake and eat it too, but even then I'd imagine keeping everything in sync with all that overhead would be a challenge. MO2 is a significantly bigger game in comparison to mordhau when it comes down to it.

 

[Rhias]

What you're asking for is the complexity of a smaller scale game with regional servers paired with the complexity of the massive network complexity of an MMORPG and technically unfortunately isn't there yet, especially when we're all playing on a single world. If we had regional servers, maybe you could have your cake and eat it too, but even then I'd imagine keeping everything in sync with all that overhead would be a challenge. MO2 is a significantly bigger game in comparison to mordhau when it comes down to it.

MO1 was faster than MO2. So it's not like it can't work for MMORPG's. Just saying.

 

[Javelin]

Without more engaging combat this game will be a castle building simulator. If they are designing around ping then have an na and eu server. In last oasis i play on the server furthest from me in na and i have 40 ping. Ping is not an excuse for crap combat mechanics.

Last oasis is a very similar type of game from a programming perspective. Its open world with fast paced combat. I understand it cant be as fast as mordhau but it can be at least as fast or faster than mo1 which was on an older ue4. Bottom line is if combat is boring people won’t play except for those who just wanna rp and build castles. There are other ways to design for ping and player numbers. Split the world into tile zones, cap the number of players to a tile and cap the number of guild members like last oasis did so they could keep fast paced combat.

 

[Wesley Snipes]

MO1 was faster than MO2. So it's not like it can't work for MMORPG's. Just saying.

MO1 also had a ton of desync issues and ping disparity between NA and EU players. I mean I'm not sure "MO1 did it so MO2 should do it too" is a good answer when we really look at the state of MO1 and all it's faults.

Last oasis is a very similar type of game from a programming perspective.

LO is a little bit different in their approach. It's literally a lobby game (the map) with a bunch of isolated servers. Each server has a hard cap, and I can honestly say having been in some of the bigger fights that the combat completely falls apart. I've swung through people, had people swing through me, blocked attacks I shouldn't of, and had attacks blocked that looked like they landed. LO also utilizies regional server, MO2 will not, at least not initially (and perhaps) not at all depending on what they do with the different continents. Yes, I personally think they should have regional servers, but because they're not they're making compromises. I can attest that trying to fight people on the EU region in LO, or SA region is pretty fucking awful. Combat in MO2 has improved where you were swinging and hitting people from 10 feet away.

Splitting MO2 into tiles like LO does kinda removes the whole open world aspect IMO. I don't even really consider LO an open world game.

 

[Handsome Young Man]

MO1 also had a ton of desync issues and ping disparity between NA and EU players. I mean I'm not sure "MO1 did it so MO2 should do it too" is a good answer when we really look at the state of MO1 and all it's faults.



LO is a little bit different in their approach. It's literally a lobby game (the map) with a bunch of servers stitched together. Each server has a hard cap, and I can honestly say having been in some of the bigger fights that the combat completely falls apart. I've swung through people, had people swing through me, blocked attacks I shouldn't of, and had attacks blocked that looked like they landed. LO also utilizies regional server, MO2 will not, at least not initially (and perhaps) not at all depending on what they do with the different continents. Yes, I personally think they should have regional servers, but because they're not they're making compromises. I can attest that trying to fight people on the EU region in LO, or SA region is pretty fucking awful. Combat in MO2 has improved where you were swinging and hitting people from 10 feet away.

MO2 also has a flat ping of 100ms to all players, and we've yet to see what faster combat looks like with that.

 

[Wesley Snipes]

MO2 also has a flat ping of 100ms to all players, and we've yet to see what faster combat looks like with that.

It's a two prong attack. Pad the latency, and slow down the pace of combat so the client and server can stay in sync. If they do increase combat, it will probably be minute and people will still complain. What you're asking for probably isn't going to work well in a game of this size, and I strongly doubt SV has an army of engineers and tons of money and time to solve the problem. Your real argument should be for regional servers so the developers have a little more head room to speed combat up. They don't have to worry about EU vs NA and trying to make it all work for everyone.

 

[Javelin]

Last Oasis has directional swings, directional blocks, its on the same engine and its open world. Yes, they used different solutions to deal with population and ping but Mortal could do something similar instead of sacrificing combat. They are also a small team. If they can do it mortal can. Let's be honest here this game is niche, while there will be a population boom initially the community will remain relatively small. You don't have to design to accommodate hundreds of thousands of players cause there won't be anywhere near that. I'd rather sacrifice a seamless experience but have kickass combat then have a seamless experience with turtle slow combat.

Also as far as EU / NA have 2 servers, stop this shared world idea. Don't force them to use it but offer the option for players who want better ping to play on a closer server. But for EU players that don't care then let them play on NA and vise versa. Don't sacrifice good game design because ping is bad, ping will always be bad whether you have slow or fast combat there will still be desync if you're half way across the world.

 

[Qik]

I played Mortal 1, I ran a guild that spent all day getting into trouble, fighting all the time. I was looking forward to returning to the adrenaline filled world of Nave.... and then I logged in.

What in the hell has happened to the combat? It's slow, everything has such a long windup you'd have to be 12 beers in to miss your parry.

Did the community ask for this? I know our guys (and likely a cross section of the main demographic this game will aim to capture) are coming from games like Mordhau where combat is fast paced and complex. Where you can feign an action to fake out your opponent, you can be tactical with what you do because it doesn't take 10 seconds to swing once.

This combat just feels like baby mode and I would like to assume that most of you here don't need training diapers, do you? People have better internet on average then they did during mortal 1 and the combat was faster back then so why are things going backwards?

To Henrik: for your game to make money it needs to target the demographic that is most likely to play it, that demographic plays games like Mordhau and Last Oasis. Look to Mordhau as your main modern-ish example, steal what works, change what doesn't but whatever you do, do NOT leave it in the snooze fest state it is in. If you need help getting there I am sure I can find you some Myrmidons that would be willing to help you out with constructive feedback like we did for you in Mortal 1. Just DM me or Meralious. We want you to succeed.

-Javelin
Founder of Myrmidon

-edited to correct Henrik's name spelling.

You can feint and go around someones blocks. Albeit it still is clunky

 

[Handsome Young Man]

You can feint and go around someones blocks. Albeit it still is clunky

Eh, more like feint and waste stamina because someone of average reaction speed is still going to parry you.

 

[Handsome Young Man]

It's a two prong attack. Pad the latency, and slow down the pace of combat so the client and server can stay in sync. If they do increase combat, it will probably be minute and people will still complain. What you're asking for probably isn't going to work well in a game of this size, and I strongly doubt SV has an army of engineers and tons of money and time to solve the problem. Your real argument should be for regional servers so the developers have a little more head room to speed combat up. They don't have to worry about EU vs NA and trying to make it all work for everyone.

Wont ever happen (For some reason). Slow combat isn't the answer.

 

[Qik]

Eh, more like feint and waste stamina because someone of average reaction speed is still going to parry you.

Are you implying you parry absolutely everything?

 

[Handsome Young Man]

Are you implying you parry absolutely everything?

If I wanted to.

 

[Rulant]

Combat does need MASSIVE changes but don't come in acting like you're hot shit who needs to be bowed down to and preaching the whole "only pvpers play" garbage. Main reason most players were pvpers so long in mo1 was because SV did nothing to cater to other types of players.

 

[bbihah]

The loudest minority wins the cake. That was the name of the game in getting your way in MO1.

 

[Rhias]

Combat does need MASSIVE changes but don't come in acting like you're hot shit who needs to be bowed down to and preaching the whole "only pvpers play" garbage. Main reason most players were pvpers so long in mo1 was because SV did nothing to cater to other types of players.

And I'm pretty sure the majority of PVE doesn't want a slow motion PVE experience just for competetitive ping balance reasons in PVP.

 

[Rulant]

And I'm pretty sure the majority of PVE doesn't want a slow motion PVE experience just for competetitive ping balance reasons in PVP.

I didn't say they did.