Buildable Walls

[Ragemeister]

First let me start by saying I know they were abused in mo1, I know why we dont have them. Thats not what this post is about so dont come in here saying "iN mO1 tHo"

Not having walls to put around our town or any form of defenses to keep people away from our doors is just bad game design. We shouldnt need to own a keep to have protection of walls, allowing people to just sit and camp doors with their entire group is horrible game design, literally every game that has housing has some sort of walls or defenses to be placed around them so people cant just sit at your door and wait.

And if your idea is that guards will help thats just a pipedream, it'll take one dude on a mount to run into a town and leash every guard away making them useless. Nothing in TC is going to fix this issue, not having buildable walls in a sandbox game is just ridiculous , find a way to punish those who abuse it and bring back buildable walls

 

[zers]

cant wait to wall in red priests XAXAXAXAXAXAXA

 

[Veeshan]

you will probaly be able to do it when territory system is out cause im thinking thats going to work by forts make a box around it where it considered ur territory and then there probaly be way to expand it out limiting walls in territory is fine if people wanna build a toll checkpoint for players or block passes at there keep thats fine cause it give local conflict and if somone want to blow up your keep/wall cause there sick of ur tolls to get pass they can do so and it be a decent investment since keeps are expensive where wall panel are not realy , however free building walls are gonna be abused to hell especialy if cheap.

 

[RaptorBlackz]

No to walls, Let that be a luxury for keep owners.

MO1 was plagued with nothing but Walls which ruined everything about the game.
Air-lock Systems/Kill-boxes/Walled-off Content, General annoyances and in the way.

Walls should strictly be for Keeps for that added security, Otherwise having open cities scattered across the map is the best solution for points of interests for players all alike so they can admire creativity from players aswell as to look for players whom to kill.

Again, No to walls...They're too abuseable (At most give some people fences for aesthetics and not protection)

 

[Backyard Employee]

Henrik said multiple times that walls would not be given to non-keep holding players.

Which made more sense then every guild in the game having access to them.

If you're so worried about defending your stuff? Maybe try playing the politics of the game or don't build at all. People typically siege you because of who you play with, or what you've done; not just out of random.. rarely.

 

[Ragemeister]

Henrik said multiple times that walls would not be given to non-keep holding players.

Which made more sense then every guild in the game having access to them.

If you're so worried about defending your stuff? Maybe try playing the politics of the game or don't build at all. People typically siege you because of who you play with, or what you've done; not just out of random.. rarely.

Has nothing to do with sieging, a siege takes actual effort. Which it should, you should not be able to simply walk into someones town and block their doors leaving them with no way to do anything or defend themselves, its not logical, its not fun, and its bad design.

Name a single sandbox game that doesnt allow for the building of walls, its for this reason, you cannot simply allow large groups to sit at peoples door with no effort given at all.

 

[Myta]

Name a single sandbox game that doesnt allow for the building of walls

Ultima Online.

 

[Turbizzler]

Based on what I experienced in MO1 with walls, it's a hard no from me for free placement of walls. It ruined the game in a lot of aspects, it also looked very ugly having the landscape checkerboarded with fucked walls everywhere lol

In saying this, the only way I would accept any type of wall outside of keeps only - Would be maybe a basic wooden palisade that could be constructed at a fixed square or circular radius outside of a Stronghold. You wouldn't be able to build anything within these walls, it would be more of a defensive palisade for around the Stronghold only.

Kind of like this

They should be weak. Gate could be easily knocked down by a Ram. Walls easily knocked down by Mang. Shit, when fire arrows are added, they'd be vulnerable to them.

 

[Backyard Employee]

Has nothing to do with sieging, a siege takes actual effort. Which it should, you should not be able to simply walk into someones town and block their doors leaving them with no way to do anything or defend themselves, its not logical, its not fun, and its bad design.

Name a single sandbox game that doesnt allow for the building of walls, its for this reason, you cannot simply allow large groups to sit at peoples door with no effort given at all.

No thanks. MO1 sucked with walls galore.

 

[Ragemeister]

No thanks. MO1 sucked with walls galore.

walls didnt ruin mo1, mo1 ruined mo1

 

[Ragemeister]

Ultima Online.

Lmfao, a top down game with no sieging and completely safe housing, a game that killed itself years ago the same way this game is killing itself now, great example.

 

[Albanjo Dravae]

First let me start by saying I know they were abused in mo1, I know why we dont have them. Thats not what this post is about so dont come in here saying "iN mO1 tHo"

Not having walls to put around our town or any form of defenses to keep people away from our doors is just bad game design. We shouldnt need to own a keep to have protection of walls, allowing people to just sit and camp doors with their entire group is horrible game design, literally every game that has housing has some sort of walls or defenses to be placed around them so people cant just sit at your door and wait.

And if your idea is that guards will help thats just a pipedream, it'll take one dude on a mount to run into a town and leash every guard away making them useless. Nothing in TC is going to fix this issue, not having buildable walls in a sandbox game is just ridiculous , find a way to punish those who abuse it and bring back buildable walls

1 mounted in a town won't leash the guards, hes horse will die in 2 arrows and the mounted with another 2.
I agree player towns should have some degree of security thats not npc based neither heavy ass restrictions that cannot absolutly be bypassed and the only resources are sieging. Yet walls are hard to balance in their use, a start would be not to let people wall off content.

 

[Albanjo Dravae]

Based on what I experienced in MO1 with walls, it's a hard no from me for free placement of walls. It ruined the game in a lot of aspects, it also looked very ugly having the landscape checkerboarded with fucked walls everywhere lol

In saying this, the only way I would accept any type of wall outside of keeps only - Would be maybe a basic wooden palisade that could be constructed at a fixed square or circular radius outside of a Stronghold. You wouldn't be able to build anything within these walls, it would be more of a defensive palisade for around the Stronghold only.

Kind of like this
View attachment 3781
They should be weak. Gate could be easily knocked down by a Ram. Walls easily knocked down by Mang. Shit, when fire arrows are added, they'd be vulnerable to them.

i like this route, wooden walls and shit instead of 2millon hp stone walls like in mo1 xD

 

[Ragemeister]

1 mounted in a town won't leash the guards, hes horse will die in 2 arrows and the mounted with another 2.
I agree player towns should have some degree of security thats not npc based neither heavy ass restrictions that cannot absolutly be bypassed and the only resources are sieging. Yet walls are hard to balance in their use, a start would be not to let people wall off content.

I highly doubt the guards we get with TC will be as strong as the town guards we currently have, could be wrong about that but having guards that just 2 shot enemies is even worse design than having no walls in my opinion.

 

[Albanjo Dravae]

I highly doubt the guards we get with TC will be as strong as the town guards we currently have, could be wrong about that but having guards that just 2 shot enemies is even worse design than having no walls in my opinion.

Right now we don't know anything about TC, people like to speak like they knew whats comming but not even henrik's promises are something you can relay on.

 

[Myta]

Lmfao, a top down game with no sieging and completely safe housing, a game that killed itself years ago the same way this game is killing itself now, great example.

You asked about sandbox. UO is one. One of the most important even, and it clearly was a huge inspiration for MO2.
Also "killed itself years ago" lol. UO is still alive after 25 years now. Thats pretty impressive. There are freeshards (plural) that have 1000+ concurrent players (each), and the official servers still have like 10k+ subscriptions.

Next example:
Eve Online.

 

[barcode]

walls were a cancer in mo1, and a mistake henrik is not likely to repeat. that being said, i dont see why there cant be *some* defensive structures, but something that acts more like a delay or deterrant than something requiring a siege to traverse. why not allow for some kind of Cheval_de_frise like exists around the risar camps, tho with some way to climb over them when on foot but preventing mounts from entering.

people wanting to raid a defended area could dismount and 'use' the spikes to start a long 'climb' animation (10 seconds? 20?) where they are vulnerable but afterwards are on the other side of the wall. it would prevent MAs from just rolling into town on mounts and give some time for defenders to get organized for the coming fight. attackers could clearly see the people on the other side so they know a fight can happen rather than stage a large siege to take down a wall only to find everyone had logged out.

clearly there would need to be limits on how these structures could be placed, but yea i'm not opposed to some form of 'defensive structure', just not walls.

-barcode

 

[Ragemeister]

You asked about sandbox. UO is one. One of the most important even, and it clearly was a huge inspiration for MO2.
Also "killed itself years ago" lol. UO is still alive after 25 years now. Thats pretty impressive. There are freeshards (plural) that have 1000+ concurrent players (each), and the official servers still have like 10k+ subscriptions.

Next example:
Eve Online.

Literally the worst examples possible, UO had completely safe housing, there was no need for walls, and EVE isnt a game its a fucking spreadsheet simulator, get real. Eve is the farthest thing from a real sandbox

 

[Amadman]

Never built a single wall in the first game.


But I do see possible issues with only having one entry and exit point.

In the first game you had two doors in the first houses and could jump from balconies and such in the higher tier ones.

The second iteration allowed you to build multiple exit points as well.


I have only built the first tier small house so not sure how many exits the other houses have. But I guess I could see this possibly

leave someone open to being trapped in their own house.


But even with palisades or walls it seems like there would be the same issues. A person would

still be "trapped" inside the walls if they can not deal with the people waiting outside for them.


Also, I don't understand how UO having unsiegable houses has anything to do with people being able to wait outside the door.

Other than having the ability to attack from within the house. Which is an issue I do have with the current houses.

Unless it is possible and I do not know it.

 

[Ragemeister]

Also, I don't understand how UO having unsiegable houses has anything to do with people being able to wait outside the door.
Other than having the ability to attack from within the house. Which is an issue I do have with the current houses.
Unless it is possible and I do not know it.

Right now its not really an issue but if thieving ends up the same as mo1 people being in your house means people will be able to steal your items. People will 100% camp doors to try and get in and loot chests. There has got to be some sort of airlock system or something for smaller tier houses and strongholds or its going to be nothing but door camping...