Buff Poleswords

[WolfAchilles]

• What differentiates polearms from the other weapon groups?
  • Skill point investment
  • Range
  • Versatility
• What differentiates poleswords from poleaxes?
  • Weight
  • Damage
  • Stamina Drain
  • Hitbox

Poleaxes are really strong right now. In return for 100 skill points, poleaxes are a great weapon for dedicated fighters. They have range nearly as good as spears and great damage in both thrust and swing. The stamina drain is manageable, but not light. If poleaxes are finding a place in the melee meta, why aren't poleswords?
Poleswords are lighter. That is all they have going in their favor.
A BT/Steel Halberd of 3.41 weight has a str requirement (stam drain stat) of 84.62. A risar glaive of the same materials weighs 16% less: 2.87. However the stamina drain is 93% (78.8) of that of a halberd. Those numbers will of course change slightly based on which handle is used, but the fact remains that, adjusted for weight, the polesword stamina drain remains worse than the poleaxe stamina drain.
My guess for that calculation is based upon MO1, in which the length of a weapon had a strong relationship to its stamina drain. Poleswords are slightly longer than poleaxes (exception: heavy poleaxe, which is generally too long and heavy to practically use metal in crafting) but I don't think that's sufficient to make the stamina worse. I know realism in video games is a touchy subject for a lot of people, but hear me out: The reason a longer weapon would be more exhausting to use is the distribution of weight further from the handle. A polesword has a more even distribution, whereas a poleaxe has all the metal at the end of the weapon, exerting maximum torque on the user and therefore requiring the most str/stam to use. Poleswords are currently worse than poleaxes in regard to stamina drain and damage dealt per stamina spent.
I would like to see polesword stamina drain reduced to be on par with poleaxes. To be honest, I think that they should have slightly and I really mean SLIGHTLY (3% at most) better stamina drain than poleaxes, but that might be an overbuff and could make them too strong, especially if paired with my next point.
Poleswords SUCK in the thrust.


Which of these two weapons looks pointier?
The sword has a higher pierce damage value than the glaive. W...T...F...
A steel risar glaive has a piercing stat of 24.6. That doesn't sound so bad does it? A steel halberd has 34.88 pierce damage. A flakestone halberd has 25.66 pierce. The deficiency of the polesword is self evident.
As I mentioned earlier, versatility is one of the key rewards for skill point investment with polearms. The main strategy with poleaxes is to use the similarity between the thrust and right swing animations to confuse opponents and land hits because the halberd has good damage for both. Poleswords do not share this versatility.
I am of the unpopular opinion that the polesword meta in MO1 was the most skill expressive and diverse meta that could have evolved. Polearms incentivize players that specialize in their use to rely on distance and spacing in addition to the directional parrying that is of absolutely paramount importance with shorter weapons. Distance play is better suited for higher ping players and I think was subtly important in balancing NA and EU players in MO1. Poleswords were the most versatile weapon in MO1, but were not so overtuned that other weapons did not see use. Nearly every weapon group saw use in MO1 during the polesword meta. I do not desire to see poleswords return to that position of dominance in MO2. Polearms should be the primary weapon of fully dedicated melee fighters and poleswords are only a subset of that group.
I do not want to see poleswords buffed to the point that poleaxes are obsolete. Be careful and methodical with the buffs to these weapons, but please give them a little love. I've been getting reprimanded for using my favorite weapon for six months because they are inherently weaker than my other options, but I play them anyway because I love them.
#JusticeforPoleswords!!!

 

[Tashka]

[A statement from someone who has 20000 hours in MO1 and another 3k in MO2 that poleswords are fine.]

 

[Glitch]

I 100% fully support this thread.

The argument people have with tamers for an example is they have point investment so they're allow to one button kill things. It occurs to me that if poleaxes are 200 points for a 100% footfighter then we should also have the option of have a weapon that has the pros of both spears and swords. We have a lot of fighters here that would rather use swords and spears (mostly Veela players that prefer low stamina usage weapons) and with a 200 point investment potentially sacrificing archery or even controlled riding (gimping us of long range engagement or giving us the option of riding horses) we should have poleswords tree implemented correctly Spears/Swords --> Secondary Poleswords rather than Spears and Axes allowing us to use 4 different weapons when a lot of us don't even spec axes with spears.

Also consider for a second that poleswords do require more skill versus other builds that are considered a "skill point investment build" (like wheelchair builds/tamers, etc).

I understand that Henrik already mentioned they will buff poleswords, my argument is when? but also that it should be at launch when this is implemented.

I would like remind you guys that we are not asking poleswords to be super buffed but if you look at the numbers of any poleswords they're definitely weak AF. It just has to make sense for the branch in the skill tree and also that it is more viable. Currently it seems like poleswords only have reach but with much weak numbers in damage to the point that it is laughable. it doesn't have the slash not piercing numbers of any standalone swords or spears with the same materials made.

 

[Emdash]

Yea I was gonna try pole swords but they don't support my spam swinging playstyle like they used to haha. I didn't get pole axes, but yea I've def seen people with them. They would be less OP if it wasn't parry, hit, parry. I remem using pole katanas and they were pretty swipey and fun. If you can get non-handles with all of these weps, you should be rewarded.

But I made a flake glaive or something, and it was before I had feint, tru tru, but I was using it on my veela (cuz I was like IM GONNA TRY POLE SWORDS THIS TIME!!) and it was just like... STAM... WHY. Any wep that is dropping your stam noticeably when you hold a swing (even standing still) is too heavy for me unless it hits hard as fuck, and the WT was not high. I mean, the latest, now deleted Emdash was using axes and I could swing axes all day, running, hit someone, run into them so they handled me on the counter, and pop them on the step out. I could do that maybe twice with a pole sword and the dmg is way less.

I think the fact that almost everyone had a pole sword in MO1 was pretty lame. However, not seeing them at all is also wack. I think pole axes should lose pokiness as well!

I mean, think of it this way, in MO1 we were all like A SWORD ON A STICK... KINDA WEIRD??? And they took out swords on sticks, now we have halbs on sticks while it's A REAL WEP, a longer handle would still be getting broken if used a certain way and it def wouldn't have can opener pierce dmg + having heavy blunt OR it would be such a massive stam drain that you would have to really choose when to even pull it back. Pierce dmg needs to be looked at in general. Spears and daggers (arrows ofc) should be giving good pierce and that's about it. haha. The rest should be somewhere along the lines of 'decent' with stuff like pure thin blades being the highest.

 

[Highlander]

Why using poleswords when risar spears have insane Piercing and deal also Slash blunt damage..?

 

[Tzone]

Look if you just buff pole swords to be usable then you have just made a entire weapon class worth of content for the game with just a few number changes in a data base some where.

Also make poleswords spear and sword instead of spear and axe please, for the skill points needed.

Its free content the devs could put into the game. Everyone knows poleswords are super scuffed. Its mainly the stamina drain and perhaps also the low piercing.

Just buff it already.

 

[ElPerro]

Since Henrik loves to buff/nerf depending on how many ppl use it, he should check the numbers on poleswords

But knowing Henrik, he will probaby nerf poleaxes so they are just as bad as poleswords xD

 

[[CTX] Contractor]

I hope they don't nerf poleaxes. I want that to be my next weapon. Just been using axes and love them, but I feel like the poleaxe is the next step up.


I'll always support the angle of the fact poleswords and poleaxes take an extra primary point slot in your build, so your weapons should realistically be better. (In before pet users say pets should always be super strong due to this logic.)

Poles need love, 100%.

 

[m4rt3]

From someone who only used 2h swords in beta - I have been eyeing up the poleaxe or polesword. I'm not sure which I will take but if they make the change to spear/sword it will definitely require me to re-configure my skills. That being said, I wonder if they will be making any of these somewhat drastic changes for launch.

 

[Emdash]

I kinda think pole axes are cheesy enough if you know how to use them to almost be on pole sword MO1 level (re: 200 pts), but that's my hot take. They can do every swing type well (many hides,) hit hard, and have range. If you are coming off a parry you should be blasting people. They have disadvantages, too, of course, but maybe less so in comparison to other weps. Pole swords should def be more pokey and slashy tho, by far. The slash on a pole sword should actually be higher than that of a blade and the poke should be similar to that of a spear IMO. I think barring heavy heads tho it should have less blunt, not because it wouldn't cause more blunt to get hit by one, but you'd be able to slam someone way harder w/ a great blade than you would with a pole sword because of SCIENCE and that it could just snap. If you were using a pole sword in LIFE and swinging it as hard as a sword, you would be fucking up. It'd be a totally different play style where you'd want to get clean slices and clean pokes.

2 hot takes in one. Fries optional.

Just ask this guy!

also for luls (didn't watch the whole vids but found this kinda funny.)

get a chunk lopped off of the top of your head, ahaha.

 

[WolfAchilles]

I kinda think pole axes are cheesy enough if you know how to use them to almost be on pole sword MO1 level (re: 200 pts), but that's my hot take. They can do every swing type well (many hides,) hit hard, and have range. If you are coming off a parry you should be blasting people. They have disadvantages, too, of course, but maybe less so in comparison to other weps. Pole swords should def be more pokey and slashy tho, by far. The slash on a pole sword should actually be higher than that of a blade and the poke should be similar to that of a spear IMO. I think barring heavy heads tho it should have less blunt, not because it wouldn't cause more blunt to get hit by one, but you'd be able to slam someone way harder w/ a great blade than you would with a pole sword because of SCIENCE and that it could just snap. If you were using a pole sword in LIFE and swinging it as hard as a sword, you would be fucking up. It'd be a totally different play style where you'd want to get clean slices and clean pokes.

2 hot takes in one. Fries optional.

I think if you gave poleswords pierce on the level of spears on top of the speed and stam buffs, they would be the best weapon in the game. Poleaxes would be 2nd, and it would be a good distance between the two. I think poleswords could use a bit more piercing so that they match the level of poleaxes for versatility, but let's not overbuff them quite that hard. The swing speed buff wasn't massive, but the stam drain was really big.

 

[strycio]

I think if you gave poleswords pierce on the level of spears on top of the speed and stam buffs, they would be the best weapon in the game. Poleaxes would be 2nd, and it would be a good distance between the two. I think poleswords could use a bit more piercing so that they match the level of poleaxes for versatility, but let's not overbuff them quite that hard. The swing speed buff wasn't massive, but the stam drain was really big.

Yup, slightly more pierce would do

 

[Emdash]

I think if you gave poleswords pierce on the level of spears on top of the speed and stam buffs, they would be the best weapon in the game. Poleaxes would be 2nd, and it would be a good distance between the two. I think poleswords could use a bit more piercing so that they match the level of poleaxes for versatility, but let's not overbuff them quite that hard. The swing speed buff wasn't massive, but the stam drain was really big.

pole axes are stupid atm. There's no reason they should pierce like they do w/ pole swords in the game; their main plus should be blunt and prolly still deal high dmg like an axe does. I don't mean on the level of spears, I said similar. But I forgot that spears were 45+ not like 38 haha. I was thinking something like 30/30~ +/- type, steel but with lower blunt, and maybe 25/25~ for the lightest glaive.' Risar spear might still be one of the best weps in the game, too, other than poleaxe. But yea IMO if they are gonna charge 200 pts for something it should be 1/2 as best weps.

The main dmg I think is way off is blunt. I think they need to overhaul blunt on a lot of weps. Then give pole swords similar dmg to swords, but a bit more because of the way a handle would allow for cleaner hits (imo at least, NOT SCIENCE this time.)