Books too easy to obtain

[Emdash]

Doesn't have to be a huge guild. Contact other guilds, join forces and kill the shitters. Zergs have plenty of haters so shouldn't be much of a problem. Nobody does that. Nobody even tries to. Better to wait for SV to solve all their problems.

I know how to get things done, and yea you're right. But again, having to get somewhere and having to get somewhere + defeat a world boss is wild. Like I said give out major loot from world bosses and maybe even a bigger chance, but put it in the world a good amount, too. Needs multi sources.

But yea we def have different vantage points. I like a MO world where both big guilds and solos can do work.

 

[Tashka]

I like a MO world where both big guilds and solos can do work.

Both guilds and solos can do almost everything. You can solo in this game just fine, it's not like you must have rituals to do anything. Some argue it's "content" and feel left out, and yeah it's probably gonna be interesting for some people to play with different ritualism combos for a while, but they really aren't losing much. I for one don't want to see everyone and his mother running around with tupilaks and risen tagmatons and riding udead horses.

Who knows maybe if portal lore was as gated as rituals originally were it wouldn't need that massive nerf.

 

[Deleted member 44]

The drop rate is still 0.1% chance. My guild has spent several 12 hour time spans kill the boss and the troll trying to get just one book. This patch is a god send.

 

[Albanjo Dravae]

Seriously? It's a sandbox game, it's in your power to prevent groups from camping whatever it is they're camping.

As any sanbox it has it's own rules, it's not absolute freedom, thats an illusion.

But if you can't understand that if the only gameplay loop is to zerg camp content it sucks by the nature of the game itself, which turns out to be a competition of whos got the biggest group.

It easier for one organized group (guild) to camp content than it is for randoms to organize a fighting force. Not saying this is not good or that it doesn't happen but aslong as theres no design to control the influx of players on a closed places such as a small-mid sized supposed to be dungeons the true contest will only be based on the amount of organized players a group has.

The question is, do we want conflict to happen under those terms, all the time? I myself see that design as a failure that does not encourage the diversity of groups but polarizes conflict in zergs vs zergs.

I've fought a lot in MO1 and MO2 within guilds and random coallitions of non organized groups. And you can't ever compare a consolidated group with comms to a bunch of randoms with no comms. No other way to put it.

 

[Emdash]

I myself see that design as a failure that does not encourage the diversity of groups but polarizes conflict in zergs vs zergs.

Ironically, that's 'meaningful pvp,' that's why I think the meaningful pvp term is overused. If I pvp, it's meaningful haha. People want epic battles over hot spots, really, tho, and that's like one step out of the arena. Sure you get different terrains, but the stealth aspect is just so underrated. The amount you can do just sneaking around is crazy. If you're waging war on all fronts and trying to deny resources, etc.

 

[Albanjo Dravae]

Ironically, that's 'meaningful pvp,' that's why I think the meaningful pvp term is overused. If I pvp, it's meaningful haha. People want epic battles over hot spots, really, tho, and that's like one step out of the arena. Sure you get different terrains, but the stealth aspect is just so underrated. The amount you can do just sneaking around is crazy. If you're waging war on all fronts and trying to deny resources, etc.

Exacly, thats not meaningfull pvp thats just the most basic way to generate conflict. The idea pvp has to happen in that scale all the time everywhere is off. And if SV wants that to be the case, it's fine. But don't advertize necro dungeon as content for solo, small or mid sized groups because it aint.

 

[Tashka]

As any sanbox it has it's own rules, it's not absolute freedom, thats an illusion.

It maybe an illusion but i prefer more freedom in my sandboxes.

It's a pvp sandbox, bigger groups will and should have an advantage. That said, there is a diversity in playstyles. You just have to accept your limitations if you are solo or in small group. Hell most of my playtime i was in groups with 5 people online max and never felt like i'm gated out of anything.

But don't advertize necro dungeon as content for solo, small or mid sized groups because it aint.

It is. There are solos, small and mid sized groups. There are times when the dungeon is heavily camped by 20+ people but those are rare, it's difficult to make 20 people sit in one dungeon for hours. There are times where you can sit there with three people and no one would come. Hell there is actually an anti-zerg mechanics in the dungeon - camp the bridge and with little skill you can wipe a decently sized zerg. I always hated it, but now that i think about it, it's not bad really. There are actually many things you can utilize to your advantage to defeat a bigger group - the bridge, trap room, troll room, labyrinth etc.

 

[Hodo]

Doesn't have to be a huge guild. Contact other guilds, join forces and kill the shitters. Zergs have plenty of haters so shouldn't be much of a problem. Nobody does that. Nobody even tries to. Better to wait for SV to solve all their problems.

You mean.... socialize?!!?! WHAT? In a MMORPG. NO I dont play online games with others so I have to socialize with people.

 

[Najwalaylah]

You mean.... socialize?!!?! WHAT? In a MMORPG. NO I dont play online games with others so I have to socialize with people.

You all have to realise he's actually pretty approachable. No, really.

 

[Emdash]

You mean.... socialize?!!?! WHAT? In a MMORPG. NO I dont play online games with others so I have to socialize with people.

Well lettuce not misconceive. You can not socialize with people and do your own thing as well. If you just start doing your thing, people will eventually approach you, too.

I can't say I don't play MMO for the human element, but the human element and socialization are not the same! I wanna see the crap people come up with, etc, more than I wanna have a heart to heart with the naked Oghmir who is standing beside me at the bank.

And the thing you're not understanding @ dude is that big guilds get it by default and everyone else gets the leftovers. Is that cool, it is cool if they big guilds farm it way more effectively, but if they are essentially farming a spot whenever they want to and that's the only spot you can get something it's like humm.

I want to be rewarded for rogueish activities, succeed with guile. There were so many ways to get it in in MO1, now it seems like there are just big farms of various mats that you use the most OP stuff to zerg down or exploit if possible. That doesn't create good content, IMO. I think bosses are cool, but I mean I still think dungeons need a break. lol. It doesn't really make sense that the boss would be up most of the time. It should pop and then spawn at some random time and the only way you can know that is by checking the spot (not the boss spot, but imagine there would be like one extra guy in the first spawn or something if the boss was alive.)

They need to make stuff dynamic. More factors. Right now it seems get numbers, get rich, ??? I mean there isn't really an end game atm, but the fact that most of the people who got the books and are like I SUPPORT either got them w/ a big guild or paid out with guild they made... prolly in an easier way than most.

 

[Tashka]

but the fact that most of the people who got the books and are like I SUPPORT either got them w/ a big guild or paid out with guild they made...

That's not true. We're relatively small. We allied with another relatively small guild, still we were six people when we got the book.
Big guilds don't like the odds. You need to somehow make 20+ people camp the dungeon for days, and then either only one of them gets to read it, or you'll have to split the money from selling it on these 20+ people. So really big raids are extremely rare, and when they come, they usually go away as soon as they drive out whoever was near the boss room, leaving a small group behind to farm the boss.

 

[MolagAmur]

The real issue is nothing takes skill to acquire in this game, it usually just takes numbers. You can have shit players in large groups do any of the dungeons in the game. Some even require another body to hit the amount of damage you need. You don't need skilled players, just enough of them. There are zero skill-check mechanics (i can't speak for the newest dungeon as I haven't played), but its just boring. Smaller groups can do these things too, but its just playing on hardmode in comparison. Which some people like, and I personally have always done that, but SV needs to add some actual good mechanics to these dungeons to make them interesting instead of just 30 gub gubs shooting their longbows at everything.

There isn't a single thing in this game you can have that someone can look at you and be like "damn him and his group was able to accomplish X to obtain Y".

 

[Emdash]

That's not true. We're relatively small. We allied with another relatively small guild, still we were six people when we got the book.
Big guilds don't like the odds. You need to somehow make 20+ people camp the dungeon for days, and then either only one of them gets to read it, or you'll have to split the money from selling it on these 20+ people. So really big raids are extremely rare, and when they come, they usually go away as soon as they drive out whoever was near the boss room, leaving a small group behind to farm the boss.

I like sandboxes.

And whatever MO1 was, that is the quintessential sandbox to me. I dunno why they didn't stay with that model and wanted to make it more streamlined and, really, more nubby and 'quest based.' It would make more sense if you needed to farm the boss for like a super orb to summon a creature (like to mix in the recipe,) but the fact that it's the actual spells is mehh, to me. Cuz that would be more like maxing crafting then the PvE version of making high tier metal or w/e. You can pick up an orb or you can farm one. That's way diff than gating stuff behind massive money to grind up, or dungeons.

+ a lot of people 'hate grind.' I hate grind because BY DEFINITION, it sucks... but stuff doesn't usually feel like a grind to me because some of it is brute work (like mining, gathering, taming etc.) We need more stages tho, more intellectual pursuits. Watch them come out with soph cooking and be like yeah but you gotta slay the giant squid and make soup out of its left eye and give it to someone in an underwater cave. lol. You see what I mean?

 

[Jasa]

My Malfunction with the Walker Knowledge being so easy to obtain is now we will not see a Divergence of walker users.

You have made a subskill of a school of magic that I grinded my ass off to get, blood and grime to unlock is now made worthless. I agree with Ritual Notes being added to the game, that is fine as it is implemented. Would of like a more unique way of unlocking it but I guess we are just going to have to live with vendors for x Thing, no fancy mind games to unlock the schools.

My main problem is I want to just use the Walkers. I made my character entirely based on information from MO1, I became a human for Shamanistic to maximize the number of walkers I could have. I became a mage for the ability to summon said walkers. I grinded all these months and crawled back into that dungeon even when people were Alt-f4ing and camping the bridge or camping the boss. I ratted like the best of them going in grabbing scrolls and getting out.

You however made the choice to make it so the uniqueness of said playstyle is now trivialized by how easy it is to get, and it's a secondary. Everyone can now have upwards of 10 greater walkers with mana regen.

There were a select few myself included that could do this, now everyone has it. This is like adding a catch up mechanic to the game. Why play 2-3 months when I can just log in a few months later and get it like everyone else? I do not want to play the game if this is how you are going to treat a subskill of magic that should be POWERFUL, it should be RARE.

Rather than making it a rare drop in Necro dungeon & Grave Keeper. So that we would see a steady increase but not a dramatic uptick.

Let me ask you this; What reasoning did you decide to make Walker Knowledge more accessible? This game is already inaccessible to the majority of society. The people unlocking these things should be the people that spend the most time in your game, not the 2-4hr playing individuals. You have killed my enthusiasm to unlock a skill or school of magic since now I expect that school of magic to be more accessible down the line.

Rarity is based on Sacristy; you have taken that from Necromancy.

 

[Emdash]

My Malfunction with the Walker Knowledge being so easy to obtain is now we will not see a Divergence of walker users.

You have made a subskill of a school of magic that I grinded my ass off to get, blood and grime to unlock is now made worthless. I agree with Ritual Notes being added to the game, that is fine as it is implemented. Would of like a more unique way of unlocking it but I guess we are just going to have to live with vendors for x Thing, no fancy mind games to unlock the schools.

My main problem is I want to just use the Walkers. I made my character entirely based on information from MO1, I became a human for Shamanistic to maximize the number of walkers I could have. I became a mage for the ability to summon said walkers. I grinded all these months and crawled back into that dungeon even when people were Alt-f4ing and camping the bridge or camping the boss. I ratted like the best of them going in grabbing scrolls and getting out.

You however made the choice to make it so the uniqueness of said playstyle is now trivialized by how easy it is to get, and it's a secondary. Everyone can now have upwards of 10 greater walkers with mana regen.

There were a select few myself included that could do this, now everyone has it. This is like adding a catch up mechanic to the game. Why play 2-3 months when I can just log in a few months later and get it like everyone else? I do not want to play the game if this is how you are going to treat a subskill of magic that should be POWERFUL, it should be RARE.

Rather than making it a rare drop in Necro dungeon & Grave Keeper. So that we would see a steady increase but not a dramatic uptick.

Let me ask you this; What reasoning did you decide to make Walker Knowledge more accessible? This game is already inaccessible to the majority of society. The people unlocking these things should be the people that spend the most time in your game, not the 2-4hr playing individuals. You have killed my enthusiasm to unlock a skill or school of magic since now I expect that school of magic to be more accessible down the line.

Rarity is based on Sacristy; you have taken that from Necromancy.

You right about one thing... you being a walker master or putting that in your build is a cool idea, and it's not exactly unique, but it is cool to bring that to MO. THAT BEING SAID, uh, I dunno. This is the same argument like "you don't wanna see everyone running around with..." it's like why cuz that's the best? Everyone is running around w/ all of the best shit atm.

Like I said, you open up that stuff to a lot of poor people or semi invested, and you can get to see the awesome new builds people create. There could be a ring with a stat like +1 walker lol. I don't see how this is like "SO it should be hard for everyone..." IMO, it was wack when you did it, grats on doing it, you did work. You overcame the odds, but everyone shouldn't have to. No need to be salty.

I say this because I think this was a thoughtful post. This is my reply.

 

[Anabolic Man]

Honestly the Tome of Walking dead is now a joke to get. I dont get it why we are taking content out of the game. Why is henrik giving in to those crybabies that dont know what they want? I heard even the ritual notes are now buyable. Everybody was excited and had real awesome content in the necro dungeon. (at least everybody i know enjoyed the hell out of it). Now we are tacking away a lot of reason and excitement to do the necro dungeon. Sure the ritual book is still gonna be worth decent money because it gives you more skills but i know how this is gonna play out now:

Everybody is happy now because the have what they wanted and got all their stuff. But TC is still long away from us. And in a few weeks everybody is crying again that they have no content anymore.
And it makes it all so less of an achievement to get. We were stocked when anybody got that cool walker knowledge book. Now we dont even need to do Necro dungeon anymore. Big groups will also get less active because Ritual book will drop in price. I think it killed good content in exchange for short lived excitement.
This change would have been way better at a later stage in the game, for example when TC hits, or elementalism is released.

i agree. There need to be some reason to grind the dungeon. Rather make it possible to get the books from other locations like via tressure hunting, when it get implemented-

 

[Domtomsen]

You right about one thing... you being a walker master or putting that in your build is a cool idea, and it's not exactly unique, but it is cool to bring that to MO. THAT BEING SAID, uh, I dunno. This is the same argument like "you don't wanna see everyone running around with..." it's like why cuz that's the best? Everyone is running around w/ all of the best shit atm.

Like I said, you open up that stuff to a lot of poor people or semi invested, and you can get to see the awesome new builds people create. There could be a ring with a stat like +1 walker lol. I don't see how this is like "SO it should be hard for everyone..." IMO, it was wack when you did it, grats on doing it, you did work. You overcame the odds, but everyone shouldn't have to. No need to be salty.

I say this because I think this was a thoughtful post. This is my reply.

Its not about keeping others gated out of content. I myself had none of the important Necro Books(i have all now).
This is a traditional MMO. The progression of your character IS the content of the game. If making all spells and schools common and perfectly balance them to equality then why arent we going to selecting classes in a screen all along? Everybody gets what he wants with no exceptions, everyone has same impact. That be perfect according to you.
That thinking is exactly what killed the MMOs we are trying to recreate here alias SWG and UO.
Its okay if you like it differently. but then why are you playing this game?

One day i wanna see a freaking meteor be called down from the sky by an elementalist. If its perfectly common and balanced it will be as boring as a chaosbolt from WoW. If not.... you will probably see it your first time in a fat siege and its gonna be devastating and impactfull. Be lucky if hes on your side, sucks if your are the enemy and i guess if you are the mage you´ll gonna have the time of your life. In any case, you will probably remember that moment your whole life. just as i remember the first time i saw a tupilac. Next time i might even kill it.

 

[Emdash]

Its not about keeping others gated out of content. I myself had none of the important Necro Books(i have all now).
This is a traditional MMO. The progression of your character IS the content of the game. If making all spells and schools common and perfectly balance them to equality then why arent we going to selecting classes in a screen all along? Everybody gets what he wants with no exceptions, everyone has same impact. That be perfect according to you.
That thinking is exactly what killed the MMOs we are trying to recreate here alias SWG and UO.
Its okay if you like it differently. but then why are you playing this game?

One day i wanna see a freaking meteor be called down from the sky by an elementalist. If its perfectly common and balanced it will be as boring as a chaosbolt from WoW. If not.... you will probably see it your first time in a fat siege and its gonna be devastating and impactfull. Be lucky if hes on your side, sucks if your are the enemy and i guess if you are the mage you´ll gonna have the time of your life. In any case, you will probably remember that moment your whole life. just as i remember the first time i saw a tupilac. Next time i might even kill it.

nah... imo at killed. Nah at samey. It's samey atm. Samey is being able to buy one shit tier spell book for 1g.

Your char progression is your char life. I didn't learn any special skillz, maybe used some specific mats. Hey I was a crafter (cook,) in MO1, and made money making food that didn't really affect the game in any way, but was just fluff. Still, it was fun. That's what I want. I don't want everything to be 'perfectly balanced,' I want there to be access. There should def be basic SBs for the other stuff. Necro/ritualist should be like an AXE or at best a pole AXE. It's not about getting a more powerful magic school, it's about different magic schools heh, but hey there were meteors in MO1, too, but they weren't being called down by any players afaik. But you could mine them

So called MMO linear show my friend progression isn't what I sought in MO. I mean, I can flip that back around on all the people who say go play WoW or something when they talk about PvP-- I'd say if I wanted that sort of a game, I'd do play something else. I want to use muh brain mane. I think that it happens regardless (as much as I have tried to avoid it!) but it definitely doesn't feel like MO1.

 

[Hodo]

The real issue is nothing takes skill to acquire in this game, it usually just takes numbers. You can have shit players in large groups do any of the dungeons in the game. Some even require another body to hit the amount of damage you need. You don't need skilled players, just enough of them. There are zero skill-check mechanics (i can't speak for the newest dungeon as I haven't played), but its just boring. Smaller groups can do these things too, but its just playing on hardmode in comparison. Which some people like, and I personally have always done that, but SV needs to add some actual good mechanics to these dungeons to make them interesting instead of just 30 gub gubs shooting their longbows at everything.

There isn't a single thing in this game you can have that someone can look at you and be like "damn him and his group was able to accomplish X to obtain Y".

That is true.. No individual skill in the game currently, there wasn't much in MO1 either to be honest. But at least back then we didn't have videos and streamers telling every secret in game or websites with calculators and workbenches and step by step guides. There is no mystery in MO2 like there was in MO1. But in some ways that is good in many ways it is bad. But hey that is the age we live in. Screw player skill or individual exploration lets just have everything spoon fed to you.

 

[Emdash]

That is true.. No individual skill in the game currently, there wasn't much in MO1 either to be honest. But at least back then we didn't have videos and streamers telling every secret in game or websites with calculators and workbenches and step by step guides. There is no mystery in MO2 like there was in MO1. But in some ways that is good in many ways it is bad. But hey that is the age we live in. Screw player skill or individual exploration lets just have everything spoon fed to you.

surviving in the world (solo) is still a skill, (1 of the number 1 skills imo.) There is a nice world to really sneak around, because it's huge. The secrets and mystery are what the magic school are like before you can afford the books

I am in sandbox land cuz I don't want people forcing me to take a path. I'm not a TC-er or a hardcore PvPer. I'm living in da world. The missing mats, mounts, systems, and siege (of course,) have changed a lot of things.

Like I said: soph cooking was a perfect storm because nobody knew what was what, but it was still expensive + gathering to not give too much away. So, it's not often one steps into a game with that sort of a 'challenge' ahead of them, and taking that out, MO was shallow-ish (but I had fun playing w/ everything I could to try to find some secret wep or w/e.) Never got to make my Skadite war hammer.

The fact that the new content is more of the standard mmo type and less stuff like what I listed is what is unfortunate. That's always gonna be more complex than PvE because you have to GET THE STUFF and you have to get everything right. Afaik, you got alchemy, you got cooking, and you got summoning (if it still works the same.) 16 boxes (right? lol) to put whatever you want into and press 'combine.' Such systems, even when fully understood, will not cease being interesting as long as new materials are added. Mats are like mobs. They really need to bring in that sort of world content. I'm not worried about skill or gating as much as that. I don't really feel magic or trinkets are a top priority because I'm not that kind of player. Still, the direction is eh.