I agree the archery skill needs to have more effect on damage and dex should effect bow stability
Blocking and archery.
- Thread starter cerqo
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Bows are way too strong for what they are. A crepite bow worth absolutely nothing completely slams. A crepite bow feels as good as a tung sword. If you had to shoot tung arrows to do the current bow damage, I'd say they are balanced. The problem is when you need steel armor just to not get put to bed by the kid in the back with a 10 silver bow, shooting sub 1s arrows at you. A cheap flake weapon cant be compared to a cheap bow currently. Bows need a way so that a bow as good as the current ones has some risk, like using a good weapon or armor does.
And bows being really good makes zerging even more op. I know theres never going to be a time where zergs arent better. Thats just how math works. But. The second you are out numbered they can literally have someone just standing back shooting you with unblockable hits that do more damage than melee weapons half the time. Mo1 bows were pretty eh for everything but chasing but it meant they cant just sit there and shoot you for too much damage. It just creates boring gameplay.
And bows being really good makes zerging even more op. I know theres never going to be a time where zergs arent better. Thats just how math works. But. The second you are out numbered they can literally have someone just standing back shooting you with unblockable hits that do more damage than melee weapons half the time. Mo1 bows were pretty eh for everything but chasing but it meant they cant just sit there and shoot you for too much damage. It just creates boring gameplay.
Would making bow materials harder to get or reduced drop amount be a fix in your mind?
If bows do as much damage as a few have stated which no one has given proof of yet btw, how would you fix the cheese wheelchair and low dex builds without ruining all archery ?
One way would be to rework how the different types of bow act, like changing the draw times to make long bows slower and short bows quicker, or have more stam drain for bows that are at the limit of your strength, you can comfortably use a very good short bow with a 131 dex veela, and as you lower strength the difference between the bow types decreases, making the hard hitters less impactful but the weaker bows not really any different
I would really love to see the fletchery / arrow crafting skills make it into the game as soon as possible, it could even fix this problem of archers not really risking anything.
Once we have to buy or make our own arrows there should be a huge difference between a flakestone arrow head and a steel one or Malturn forbid an oghmium arrow head.
I really do hope when we finally get the system that it is as deep as all the other crafting systems, in that different woods will have different properties for arrow shafts, and even different animal feathers could affect the flights.
Some pretty easy and simple effects could be arrow spine stiffness that would have to be tailored for the specific type of bow you're planning on using for full effectiveness so shooting spongewood shaft arrows out of a 121 strength longbow would achieve worse range and accuracy or even have a chance of exploding due to too much flex.
Also, when they get around to adding the bow sway back in it should help the skill ceiling a bit more.
if anything, the way bows was balanced in mo1, created a boring gameplay as one couldnt actually play an archer, at all.
Tested a 123 str 102 range bow shooting at horned scale/silk Mercenary plate armor the result was 35 damage, a 130 str 107ish range bow shot by someone with 123 str did 36 damage to the same armor and reduced the archers stam by over 60 even though he was standing still.
this testing was done by a guilded Oghmir shooting me (a Veela) i would have liked to test being the one shooting but i dont want to roll that character.
if anyone else has done some testing on this i would like to hear about it, but from what i can tell that doesn't seem too bad
this testing was done by a guilded Oghmir shooting me (a Veela) i would have liked to test being the one shooting but i dont want to roll that character.
if anyone else has done some testing on this i would like to hear about it, but from what i can tell that doesn't seem too bad
The issue is you can make a good bow out of pretty much anything. An emalj bow is slightly worse than crepite but still very decent. and molarium and incisium should be better than emalj. None of these materials are supposed to be that hard to get. They just need to make worse bows. Material tier doesnt effect bow damage enough (DC is better than crep). And then SV can add some more valuable mats, which can be as strong as current bows. If someone made a tung equivalent effort bow, I'd want it to be good. But a crepite bow is like an emalj sword (an emalj sword isnt good, and shouldnt be that good).
And I'm not saying bows hit 60 on armor. I''m saying that I can make bows and have a bow in my inventory and can say it does way too well for being a crepite bow worth nothing. It feels like theres very rarely a time to use my melee weapon, its just worse than my bow. note I dont have a good material weapon. but my worthless tier bow should be as bad as my worthless tier weapon. but thats not the case. and aiming technique isnt even in the game yet, and will significantly buff foot bows. which are already very good, especially in the current game economy of trash gear.
Half of that was because the game was so janky that it was hard to hit anyone because they just lagged and prediction around haha. but for chasing bows were legendary. MO1 bows did less damage but shot much faster, and could refire much faster. And the times where bows were good, they shared the same issue as mo2, where the bows cost nothing and were too good. An MA could ride a prepatch maxed 125 bull in full tung, with a 50s DC bow.
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Seems like your issue is with bow crafting more so than archery itself, which I agree, bowcrafting is very easy and take little effort to gather good mats, Dense Crep being the only material slower to gather for a little boost to damage, a bow crafting overhaul would be great as it would give players the chance to find the new recipes.
Right now I make bows and practically give them away because it's so easy to gather mats and make the best recipe bow.
I'm tired of people who have played for 5 minutes and made themselves a set of bone tissue armour complaining that bows hit too hard.
Henrik said on stream he knows Archery is busted and will be getting proper nerfs. The question is when? Also them adding crosshair to aim instead of the arrow made it even more cheese.
So everyone defending bows...you're wrong. Here is what Henrik said...
https://clips.twitch.tv/SteamyFlaccidGarlicBuddhaBar-IgTCWDBZdlKAngPR
So everyone defending bows...you're wrong. Here is what Henrik said...
https://clips.twitch.tv/SteamyFlaccidGarlicBuddhaBar-IgTCWDBZdlKAngPR
A 121 strength oghmir isn't a wheelchair and are very strong foot soldiers. They can shoot the best bows and do the most damage in melee while keeping up with the group because they have around 390 stamina iirc.
So ya. Its not some niche build thats going insane damage with bows. Its a meta foot soldier.
Not sure we watched the same video. Probably you're watched a different one than the one you linked.
In the beginning he just read out the question, right? And then he stated his opinion:
He said Longbows shouldn't be used on a mount and there are still skills missing for archery, that now are per default ~100.
He doesn't say that normal archery should be nerfed for "Archers" that have the proper skills.
What he said in the beginning was him replying to a guy who said "archery sucks". Thats why he said "I think you're trying to trick me". I was watching the livestream and its my clip. I suppose I should have clipped the earlier part, but I wanted to get in where he talks about the longbow stuff.Not sure we watched the same video. Probably you're watched a different one than the one you linked.
In the beginning he just read out the question, right? And then he stated his opinion:
He said Longbows shouldn't be used on a mount and there are still skills missing for archery, that now are per default ~100.
He doesn't say that normal archery should be nerfed for "Archers" that have the proper skills.
You can go back and watch the vod. What he says when you first click the link is him saying why he thinks archery is OP. He wasn't reading a question...
He was saying it only takes "100" skillpoints right now and that contributes to it being OP, because its 300 meter range, you can do while sprinting, high damage, etc. I'm assuming more primaries will come to make it more of an investment.
Okay, I was lacking that context...
There are already more primarys. Just not yet available...
Aiming Technique, Controlled Aiming, Marksmanship.
Right, but none of those primaries are required to do the high damage and low stamina drain that they do now. They just aren't needed...at all. I think that may have been his point.
Nobody holds their breath when aiming. Marksmanship is increased weakspot but only on heads right? (Longbow arrows can't weakspot anyway). And I can't remember what the other primary does but its probably useless as well. So imo those all need to be reworked.
I think aiming technique reduces stamina drain by 50%. So assuming that currently it behaves like 100 skill level, the stamina drain will double for unskilled characters.
You're right, nobody holds their breath while aiming. Is it even possible in MO2? I didn't even try it.
Hopefully they make it into a passive. More wobble when normally aiming without the skill. This would result in a higher miss rate. This would not reduce the damage per hit, but still has an effect on DPS.
Seems like an issue with the build? If dex behaved the way it used to there would be more of a trade off to have that max str, in any case the testing I did was from a 123 str shooting scale armor for 35 that doesn't sound that high to me and I main a Veela hybrid
Seems like archery is getting the blame for what Seems to be builds and crafting issues.
(Not aimed at you Molag)
I get it, it's easier to just say bows are hitting good armor for 60 so it gets nerfed and you don't have to deal with it.
Dex (as far as I’m aware) will eventually factor in weakpoints more often in the future. So on technicality, it already would rely on Dex. More so when the stats are modified.
It is a good concern since bows are meta for absolutely everything right now. You would be crazy not to have one. Once headshot modifiers are added with the book (with weakspot), these weapons will have higher 1-shot potential with the current state of the weapon. We’re definitely going to see it tuned down in some capacity.
This is honestly more of a wait-and-see situation since many features specifically relating to core combat aren’t all implimented along with bone tissue being the way it is only for the sake of quick-starting PVP.
It is a good concern since bows are meta for absolutely everything right now. You would be crazy not to have one. Once headshot modifiers are added with the book (with weakspot), these weapons will have higher 1-shot potential with the current state of the weapon. We’re definitely going to see it tuned down in some capacity.
This is honestly more of a wait-and-see situation since many features specifically relating to core combat aren’t all implimented along with bone tissue being the way it is only for the sake of quick-starting PVP.
1-shot potential? Dude, what are you smoking?
First of all, some poeple still seem to believe that weakspot ignores all armor like it used to be in MO1 a few years ago. Even there it got patched to ignore only 50% of the armor, for balance reasons.
Second you can't oneshot a naked mage that is wearing no armor with a bow (unless the mage didn't skill con, which would be absolutely stupid).