Blocking and archery.

[cerqo]

In my opinion the 2 currently biggest problems when it comes to combat balance at this point in the game.

Blocking is way too easy and unskillbased. You have instant blocking and delayed, slowmotion swings. Henrik already mentioned they will be adding some kinds of counters to the retardedly low skill ceiling that blocking brings. Its been a problem ever since awakening in MO1 and im glad its finally getting acknowledged. Mentioning this here so we can get it worked on sooner.

Second point is archery in all of its forms, foot and mounted. Mounted archery is as braindead as it was in MO1, and we havnt even gotten the absurdly broken bred horses that will almost definetily going to make their way into this game. Mounted combat hasnt been added yet but we already know how that will turn out. Its simple, if your horse gets hit once by a melee weapon, you get dismounted, otherwise this trash will never be balanced.

When it comes to footarchery, its ridiculously unbalanced. This is part due to the blocking problem mentioned above. A player can parry up and just negate all damage with no downsides when it comes to melee, but as arrows cannot be blocked and hit for ridiculous ammounts, makes them stupid strong. Archery right now does way too much damage, people mention that most players arnt using good armor yet but having to be in steel armor JUST SO YOU DONT TAKE 60 DMG EACH HIT is ridiculous. An overall damage nerf needs to happen on archery with possibly increased stamina usage aswell. You have naked people running around with bows that cost pennies, still hitting armorsets that cost astronomically more than that for substantial damage.

 

[Rhias]

What bow does 60 damage when you're wearing armor?
My shortbows do ~ 20 damage on decent animal armors (e. g. Molarium).
Even if longbows do 50% more damage it will be 30 and not 60.

 

[cerqo]

What bow does 60 damage when you're wearing armor?
My shortbows do ~ 20 damage on decent animal armors (e. g. Molarium).
Even if longbows do 50% more damage it will be 30 and not 60.

Lmao, i dont know if you really are that clueless or just trolling. In your footarcher solo video you play a veela. Not even a stout one, ofcourse your tiny little weak arms wont hit for 60s.

Ive got dogbrain oghmir kids with 120str bows shooting me for 50s to 60+ every day.

Edit: Btw thats 3 STR points lower than what you can actually even reach, lord have mercy if this trash doesnt get nerfed before they add the archery subskills LMAO, im straight deleting my shit and making a tiny fat little 123 STR rat thats gonna be headshotting kids for 100s, and it aint even gonna matter what armor you wear.

 

[Rhias]

Lmao, i dont know if you really are that clueless or just trolling. In your footarcher solo video you play a veela. Not even a stout one, ofcourse your tiny little weak arms wont hit for 60s.

Ive got dogbrain oghmir kids with 120str bows shooting me for 50s to 60+ every day.

Edit: Btw thats 3 STR points lower than what you can actually even reach, lord have mercy if this trash doesnt get nerfed before they add the archery subskills LMAO, im straight deleting my shit and making a tiny fat little 123 STR rat thats gonna be headshotting kids for 100s, and it aint even gonna matter what armor you wear.

And you're saying a 120 str bow does 300% of the damage of a 80 str one?

I think the most damage I took by arrows of other in the video was ~30. And I weared only shitty bone tissue armor.

Edit: Checked my spreadsheet. A longbow with 121 str should do ~35% more damage than my shortbow.

 

[nazgo]

Last time I hit someone for 60dmg was when the guy had vendor armor and that was a headshot

Archery was dead easy to counter in mo1, bring a shield or a bow or some magic or proper gear or just be aware of your surroundings and suddenly no dmg at all

I mean people who complained about MAs in mo1 were always the same type of people. They would run around meduli steppe on their hybrids, get completely trashed by a mounted guy and then complain how bad every mounted player was and how low skill ceiling it had. Yet they never managed to pull off any stunts themselves while playing mounted.

Just fix running and gunning and make archery more dependable on the actual archery skills

 

[Archiel]

And you're saying a 120 str bow does 300% of the damage of a 80 str one?

I think the most damage I took by arrows of other in the video was ~30. And I weared only shitty bone tissue armor.

Edit: Checked my spreadsheet. A longbow with 121 str should do ~35% more damage than my shortbow.

It's hyperbole, exaggeration to make a point.
I would like to see what bow someone is using to hit that damage I'm guessing it well past their str requirement and that would mean they wouldn't have much stamina left after shooting it.

Just some food for thought about blocking, what medium ping players are experiencing now is how easy it was for low ping players for the entire run of MO1 but now it's even easier for them

 

[Archiel]

Last time I hit someone for 60dmg was when the guy had vendor armor and that was a headshot

Archery was dead easy to counter in mo1, bring a shield or a bow or some magic or proper gear or just be aware of your surroundings and suddenly no dmg at all

I mean people who complained about MAs in mo1 were always the same type of people. They would run around meduli steppe on their hybrids, get completely trashed by a mounted guy and then complain how bad every mounted player was and how low skill ceiling it had. Yet they never managed to pull off any stunts themselves while playing mounted.

Just fix running and gunning and make archery more dependable on the actual archery skills

They could link bow stability to dex so that if a low dex character tries to shoot they have a harder time aiming. This would also get rid of those pesky wheelchair builds

 

[LivingshadeNL]

In my opinion the 2 currently biggest problems when it comes to combat balance at this point in the game.

Blocking is way too easy and unskillbased. You have instant blocking and delayed, slowmotion swings. Henrik already mentioned they will be adding some kinds of counters to the retardedly low skill ceiling that blocking brings. Its been a problem ever since awakening in MO1 and im glad its finally getting acknowledged. Mentioning this here so we can get it worked on sooner.

Second point is archery in all of its forms, foot and mounted. Mounted archery is as braindead as it was in MO1, and we havnt even gotten the absurdly broken bred horses that will almost definetily going to make their way into this game. Mounted combat hasnt been added yet but we already know how that will turn out. Its simple, if your horse gets hit once by a melee weapon, you get dismounted, otherwise this trash will never be balanced.

When it comes to footarchery, its ridiculously unbalanced. This is part due to the blocking problem mentioned above. A player can parry up and just negate all damage with no downsides when it comes to melee, but as arrows cannot be blocked and hit for ridiculous ammounts, makes them stupid strong. Archery right now does way too much damage, people mention that most players arnt using good armor yet but having to be in steel armor JUST SO YOU DONT TAKE 60 DMG EACH HIT is ridiculous. An overall damage nerf needs to happen on archery with possibly increased stamina usage aswell. You have naked people running around with bows that cost pennies, still hitting armorsets that cost astronomically more than that for substantial damage.

This, how is one supposed to play mage with these bows.

 

[Slyy]

A wobble should be introduced but even with that, the damage and stam usage needs big adjustments. Its way worse than naked magery ever was. People who don't realize this need to bump into a group of 3+ naked archers.

 

[Archiel]

A wobble should be introduced but even with that, the damage and stam usage needs big adjustments. Its way worse than naked magery ever was. People who don't realize this need to bump into a group of 3+ naked archers.

Would there be much difference if you ran into 3 naked mages? Except for maybe the range.
Without exaggeration how much damage are these bows actually doing?
Does anyone have a video?

 

[Slyy]

Would there be much difference if you ran into 3 naked mages? Except for maybe the range.

Mages
Need to stand still to cast
Mana enough for 3-4 good hits?
Lose mana if they miss
Mana regen takes ages
Faster mana regen means sitting
Can't hit effectively from range
If they hit hard they will be slow

Archers
Can run full speed and shoot
Enough stamina for dozens of hits
No extra stam loss on missing
Stam regens super fast
Can hit easily at all ranges
Can be fast and still do good damage

 

[Archiel]

Mages
Need to stand still to cast
Mana enough for 3-4 good hits?
Lose mana if they miss
Mana regen takes ages
Faster mana regen means sitting
Can't hit effectively from range
If they hit hard they will be slow

Archers
Can run full speed and shoot
Enough stamina for dozens of hits
No extra stam loss on missing
Stam regens super fast
Can hit easily at all ranges
Can be fast and still do good damage

Thats a con list for mages and pro list for archers but what I meant was, you are going to be just as dead running into 3 mages as you would 3 naked archers.

I would still like to see a video of someone getting shot for 60s while wearing armor

 

[Slyy]

you are going to be just as dead running into 3 mages as you would 3 naked archers.

We will obviously disagree, but the mages will have to work a lot harder to win that than the archers would. Make it 2 mages or 2 archers and 1 good warrior can beat the mages every time, not so sure about archers. You are low hp by the time you even close the gap with archers then they can still shoot you easily. Mages will have a tough time landing spells as soon as you get close and scatter them.

Archery needs a nerf, its easy to see

 

[Archiel]

We will obviously disagree, but the mages will have to work a lot harder to win that than the archers would. Make it 2 mages or 2 archers and 1 good warrior can beat the mages every time, not so sure about archers. You are low hp by the time you even close the gap with archers then they can still shoot you easily. Mages will have a tough time landing spells as soon as you get close and scatter them.

Archery needs a nerf, its easy to see

what about 1 warrior against 1 archer?
seems like most players that want archery nerf (which may indeed be needed) have issues with multiple archers.
if it is like some have said and Players are getting hit for 60ish through armor then yeh something is wrong there and it would need work, but if it takes the strongest character ingame to use his entire stam bar to get one or even 2 shots i dont see an issue.
i will wait to jump on the band wagon until i can see some proof and not just players that dont like the playstyle, similar arguments were made against hybrids in MO1 because didnt like the playstyle and were getting killed by small group of them, thankfully Hybrids weren't nerfed into the ground too much

 

[Rhias]

what about 1 warrior against 1 archer?
seems like most players that want archery nerf (which may indeed be needed) have issues with multiple archers.
if it is like some have said and Players are getting hit for 60ish through armor then yeh something is wrong there and it would need work, but if it takes the strongest character ingame to use his entire stam bar to get one or even 2 shots i dont see an issue.
i will wait to jump on the band wagon until i can see some proof and not just players that dont like the playstyle, similar arguments were made against hybrids in MO1 because didnt like the playstyle and were getting killed by small group of them, thankfully Hybrids weren't nerfed into the ground too much

I really love that in MO2 foot archer seems to be a valid build. In MO1 this was never the case and archery was only a thing which you could get on top of a meele fighter as secondary weapon, or for PVE only.
I agree that 60 damage on armor is OP. However, I didn't experience anyone dealing more than 30 damage on my bone tissue armor with bows.

 

[Archiel]

I really love that in MO2 foot archer seems to be a valid build. In MO1 this was never the case and archery was only a thing which you could get on top of a meele fighter as secondary weapon, or for PVE only.
I agree that 60 damage on armor is OP. However, I didn't experience anyone dealing more than 30 damage on my bone tissue armor with bows.

Yeh mate like i said if someone can show me those numbers against armor i will change my tune on the matter, i like archery but that would be terrible, i just dont see it happening unless someone is using an extremely high str bow

 

[Truthshower]

ranged combat should increase damage against pve and archery should increase damage against players. currently it works in reverse meaning every fighter of some capacity can use a bow.

people also don't realize marksmanship isn't out yet, if bows are a problem now just wait till people can ignore your armor with a head shot then youll really cry.

but just to back a point up, I run steel armor currently and get hit for 35-40 by bows at times. a lot of the time its people I killed who are now naked with a bow.

i made a thread talking about how the single priest placement in gk is bad but the whole respawn system is also busted. people spawning with full hp, and placing priests right next to banks is bad design. basically encourages more cheese in playstyles. might sound like im complaining but if u think I wont be using weakspots, full hp respawns, and a priest next to a bank in red towns to my advantage then u r honestly mistaken. just funny trend on the forums, see someone present a potential valid issue. people ignore it, then the whole community sees it in full play and complain. only a matter of time.

 

[Truthshower]

Yeh mate like i said if someone can show me those numbers against armor i will change my tune on the matter, i like archery but that would be terrible, i just dont see it happening unless someone is using an extremely high str bow

i know a guy who plays ma and when he gets dismounted and people dismount to melee fight them he just shoots them in the chest for 50. looted anywhere from bone to tung, plus being oghmir he just self heals. wait until potions are more available + weakspots.

 

[Silenko]

In my opinion the 2 currently biggest problems when it comes to combat balance at this point in the game.

Blocking is way too easy and unskillbased. You have instant blocking and delayed, slowmotion swings. Henrik already mentioned they will be adding some kinds of counters to the retardedly low skill ceiling that blocking brings. Its been a problem ever since awakening in MO1 and im glad its finally getting acknowledged. Mentioning this here so we can get it worked on sooner.

Second point is archery in all of its forms, foot and mounted. Mounted archery is as braindead as it was in MO1, and we havnt even gotten the absurdly broken bred horses that will almost definetily going to make their way into this game. Mounted combat hasnt been added yet but we already know how that will turn out. Its simple, if your horse gets hit once by a melee weapon, you get dismounted, otherwise this trash will never be balanced.

When it comes to footarchery, its ridiculously unbalanced. This is part due to the blocking problem mentioned above. A player can parry up and just negate all damage with no downsides when it comes to melee, but as arrows cannot be blocked and hit for ridiculous ammounts, makes them stupid strong. Archery right now does way too much damage, people mention that most players arnt using good armor yet but having to be in steel armor JUST SO YOU DONT TAKE 60 DMG EACH HIT is ridiculous. An overall damage nerf needs to happen on archery with possibly increased stamina usage aswell. You have naked people running around with bows that cost pennies, still hitting armorsets that cost astronomically more than that for substantial damage.

You can block arrows and if your shield has enough resistance to the arrow type of dmg you won´t feel the hit. If you gonna test, test with good gear.

 

[Archiel]

i know a guy who plays ma and when he gets dismounted and people dismount to melee fight them he just shoots them in the chest for 50. looted anywhere from bone to tung, plus being oghmir he just self heals. wait until potions are more available + weakspots.

Yeh I bet he doesn't have a lot of dex, if he is managing to shoot someone enough times before they get in his face with melee it seems like they aren't playing very smart, I mean I wouldn't engage a ground fight with a ranged player from too much distance thats just silly.
In saying this I do see the point you are trying to make but I would counter and say the problem is with the wheelchair, huge str low dex characters people are cheezing archery with and not archery itself, think back to MO1 magic wasn't OP in the hands of a dex mage or hybrid but bring in the fat mage wheelchair and it becomes a problem.
Reflex nerfs can destroy entire classes just because shitty wheelchair builds are ruining it.
Edit: are you saying someone is shooting tung for 50s?