That's if you're speccing into str. Otherwise you'd end up with something like 290-ish realistically.
Beta Patch Notes 0.1.0.93 Discussion
- Thread starter Teknique
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A human sarducaan mage with min size, max con, and min str got 295 stamina.
Veela with min size, max con, and min str got 304 stamina.
So in that case veela got even more stam than the human build.
I still can't see where humans got 100 more stam than alvarins.
True. I have heard this often so i'll until I try it because I can really say. I was planning on making a shevra if I played Alv as I prefer them lore wise, but wanted to test speed at the max end first.
If you play Veela or Sheevra you should have around 350 stam, humans have about 375 on avg, and oghs and thurs can achive 380. The difference is Thursars have like 90+ stam compared to other races due to clade buff. So actually the difference is 35-40 stam compared to other clades excluding Thurs. I would say their speed is great enough based on what I have seen and played against. At 426 speed compared to most peoples 422-424 speed I can notice a differnce, espically against 417-419 Oghs (not massive but its there).
Alv also regen faster when standing still so its hard to say (as I haven't seen or done the math) what the effective stam is actaully. A Thursar with 379 stam takes about 56 or something seconds to totally regain stam standing still so rougnly 6.7 stam a second.
Like I need to try it, but I kinda feel like people think Alv should just run away all zippy like and I don't think thats how it should work. If I am careful with my engagments I can avoid stickybacks with 426 speed against non alvs, but you have to be careful. At the end of the day if you have multiple people targetting you down you need to relay on team peels and block and movements towards friends to break cleanly and I'm ok with that.
Idk I don't mean to be too argumentative but from what i've seen and felt in the game, and looking at the numbers I don't see this big disadvantage it feels like its being sold as, but until I try it I won't know. Thursars big stam buff is a whole other thing however, I kinda feel it makes them worth it, but I could understand others might not like their almost 100 more stam pool.
Well, you're not PvP-ing mages only, right? More like a zerg of footfighters / archers constantly. So yeah. Its ~290 vs ~380.
Not as a mage though.
So you're comparing alavarin mage vs human foot fighter?
Got it... But then I don't see how it's different between an alvarin mage and a human mage.
Basically you could as well compare foot fighter vs mage and not make it into some kind of race discussion thing.
Yeah this is valid. I'm not sure how to feel about mages, its not my preferred playstyle. A few things to consider with them. A, they have sweet f all gear to lose compared to what they do. B, they have range and the abilit to heal in large numbers and damage in large numbers. C, they can now block with a parry built weapon or utility.
All of the above reasons are good reasons to not allow them to out run everybody. This means the mage is a group character, and for those that want to play a mage as a full character not needing a group I sympathise. I would like to see gear added, like maybe mages could be bad ass, the most bad ass even but you got to go get some enchanted crap that lets you have more stam. Given how they have set mages up in this game I think they should lean towards making them powerful but you have to invest in some serious travel and dungeons to make them filled with cool items or rare materials to do rare magic or something.
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Alvarin has worse clade gifts than human. And is pretty much a worst version of every other mage. That's the point.
But since its a beta, we might see some buffs eventually (that's why I still haven't rerolled yet).
I'd love to have something like this. Like a proper mage related weapons / gear and getting rid of reagents / clunky mechanics.
But I doubt it will ever happen so yeah.
This pains me to say because I don't think people have actually worked this out. Actually been meaning to make a post about it because I have strong feelings towards it haha.
So Thursars have Indefatigable - Reduced stamina drain when swinging melee weapons. This works like a second faint on paper but actually it reduces stam for ALL stam useage, that includes running. So what you actually get is roughly 90ish more stam then any other race, which I will admit is quite a decent advantage.
Considering that Thursars are only warriors and many of their clades gifts are a trade off or very conditional like having to deal damage to get any benefit, as well as non combat disadvantages id argue they should retain the stammina buff, I'm not sure if 90 is fair or not however, I think they need to relate it to Alv's speed and find a healthy balance.
They have AMAZING clade gifts imo. Fall damange and jump hight with weapon are both massive! Critial speed boost is a very nice gift to have as well! If you want to play with bows and be a tamer or hunter their gifts are great, and alchemy is a great craft and very lucrative. Humans also have some damn good clade gifts. I'd say all around they have done a good job with the clade gifts
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So basically you calculated the 90 stamina out of the stamina reduction of that clade gift? So the Thursar has let's say 360 stamina, but get's 25% reduction, so you add this up and you say he has 450?
Is that clade gift active or passive? Mortal data does not have it yet, right? It's the one which says on mortal data thursar_skill_endurance?
I think they already said what they're referring to a few times.
a 290ish stam mage vs a 370ish fighter give or take 20 stam for exaggeration.
Different topic. I replied to the statement about the thursar clade gift.
I think he was talking other races fighter vs thursar fighter. And not about mage vs fighter.
The way we tested it was I am a Thur,Khur with 426 speed, and my guildy was half Sud half Khur with 425 speed. I have 379/380stam he has like 375 or 365 stam something like that. We ran in a straight line and at the point he ran out I still had about 90 stam more. I then did this with veelas, pure tind, and other khur mixes and always end up with about that much more stam, I have also out ran Oghs in combat and seem to see them stam when I still have 40/50 stam left so conclution is that yeah, Thurs get much more stam.
Oh I should mention all our skills are the same and maxed and all that so the only diffence is clade and gifts.
P.s. its passive btw, so always around
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That makes thursars actually pretty interesting. So far I was always considering Thursars as the worse humans.
Now the big question is: Is this intended or a bug?
My thoughts exactly. I don't think it's intentional because the gift reads like a second faint and specifically says weapon swings. Even if it wasn't intentional I really hope keep it and change the wording of the clade gift. I am open to the idea of the effective stam being reduced but I feel this makes Thursars what they're intended to be, which is dominate meele fighters. I mean they can't heal as well, don't get as much defense as Ogs, have disadvantages or no buffs in anything non combat related, and depending on what they do with mounts and rider size and weight might not be strong MC/MA due to having to have stronger but slower mounts. If you take away their extra stam they're kinda eh compared to ogh's and warrior human builds, or even hybrid builds.That makes thursars actually pretty interesting. So far I was always considering Thursars as the worse humans.
Now the big question is: Is this intended or a bug?
Also worth mentioning many of the clade gifts are to buff out attribute enough to max your 3 mains (str/dex/con), hight is more of a disadvantages then advantage. Just look at a 3 part Khur 1 part sud age 30 to see how much hp, stam and damage bonus you can get for way less hight, and better benefits. Their clade gifts are often trade offs when passive and very conditional when active such as having to achive damage to get any useful effect.
Anyways thats my 2 cents for the night <3
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The new int scaling is not good. It is quite clearly a literal linear straight line from 0-100%, a massive difference from what the entire game has been balanced around for the last 10 years. It would have been better if they instead made a slightly flattened curve so there is a few "points" deviation from 50 to 100 (or somewhere around there) so you dont do almost, quite literally, half damage/healing on 50 int vs 100 int.
Main problem is there just isn't enough attribute points, you will need to take it from somewhere unless you want gimped magic. Your choices are: Low stamina, low speed, or low mana/regen. I'm sure there won't be massive complains from anyone who isn't playing a fatmage about either getting stickied to death, permanently stammed out, or no mana after a few casts of heavy spells such as greater heal or thunderlash/fulmination.
Im sorry, but we are in 2021 and this is no MO1. I think its clear, but just in case you didn´t notice.
It could be 3011 and be called MO5 rebooted, the issue would have been the same. Doing retarded balancing changes is not fine just because it's a "new" title. They did their balancing around that system, to just throw it right out the window and go through the same loop of balancing we have already been through is outright stupid.
Retarded balancing is playing with 50 int but wanting 120+ int results.
Are you autistic or something? Why is it so infinitely important to have exact linear scaling on int? As has been stated several times now: There isn't enough attribute points to get enough intelligence for decent heals/dmg, aswell as keeping the attributes you have now. Something will have to give, and you will have to settle for either poor dmg/healing, poor stamina or speed, or poor mana/regen. Only one not affected is fatmages, because they could already max out their int and psyche, aswell as stationed themselves on a mount so no need for dex or con for speed or stamina.
Either come with an argument or don't bother posting.