Beta Feedback

[Rhodri_Taliesin]

So right off the bat I want to commend SV on its world building. The landscapes are beautiful and incredibly detailed, the Forests feel more alive with foliage than in the previous installment.

Now come the criticisms in a hope to inform improvement.

Combat: It is slow, very slow. Very very slow and it does not really allow for feints and misdirection plays.

Stamina: The regeneration of stamina in combat situations is intolerably slow, and consumption of stamina while using sword/shield combo was near impossible to manage, especially if outnumbered.

Animations/Tracers: With regards to swords, the attack tracers seemed unintuitively short when doing side swings and overhead attacks, where arguably you'd be using the full length of the weapon.

Performance: Even on the lowest of visual settings I found myself suffering from poor framerate.

My specs are out of date but not too shabby. 32gb ir 3200 ddr4 RAM, GTX 1060 6gb VRAM, Ryzen 7 1700x CPU.

I'll admit my specs could use improvement so I'm willing to rule it as something that could be a factor to my experience.


Atmosphere: The Music available is dated and ripped mostly from MO-1, not particularly daring or interesting.

The lighting and textures are beautiful.

The character models are well built. I think, however that corpse models distintigrating on death, while cool aesthetically takes something away from the experience of seeing a field of carcasses from slain foes. I think this issue could be improved on the client side experience, dead bodies should last longer.


Overall Beta Experience: It wasn't bad, it wasn't great. I started it in Moh'ki and ended in Fabernum, had two old acquaintainces in tow and while we marveled at the overall expanse of the world, we encountered floating rocks, incomplete ghost rivers with no volumes, very jagged mountains that could use some cleaning up.

The expanse of the world also requires one to have transportation it is simply too vast to tolerably walk on foot. It is not impossible, I did it tonight, but it reminded me just how long such a journey can be without a ride, and with this much larger world, a ride would still take some time.


Rating: 3/5. It's good, but not great, not bad, nothing to write home about. I recommend making some tweaks, improve the netcode, and finishing another continent or two before even considering release, lest SV makes the same mistakes of the past.


"A game delayed is eventually good, a game rushed and unfinished will forever be bad." -Shigeru Miyamoto

 

[bbihah]

I think combat speed is actually in a pretty good place, it lets you think a lot more when you are in bigger fights and it feels like moving about is a bigger commitment than before. The stam regen is also in my opinion way too slow.



Still have not found what melee weapon I like the most. The one handed swords seem that they have a too small window of swings landing without hitting a handle hit, just tad bit too close and its a handle hit, an inch away and you miss. Not much reason not to go one of the 2h swords instead, they seem to be easier to hit with both because the longer range and but also up close since the swing arc seems to be pretty good letting it go a lot closer than you'd think it would.

I love bows, but now they are completely borked where you have no point of reference with the stronger bows. The shot just goes way above both the middle screen marker and the arrow. So that definitely needs work, aiming without any point of reference is incredibly annoying.


Fights feel pretty well synced, only time I noticed anything even remotely wonky syncwise was during the stress test and it was against someone with high ping and instead of being hit from a long distance like in the old system in mo1 or early mo2 it was now just an arms length away so it didn't feel nearly as broken.

 

[Handsome Young Man]

Even Rhodri knows the combat is way too slow.

 

[Rhodri_Taliesin]

Even Rhodri knows the combat is way too slow.

What a backhanded way of acknowledging that a decade of experience with the original game lends to a knowledgeable review.

 

[Handsome Young Man]

What a backhanded way of acknowledging that a decade of experience with the original game lends to a knowledgeable review.

Apologies. It's just grating that people think the combat being slow is good yet all it has done is dumbed everything down. It's nice seeing someone from MO1 agree that the combat is slow, that's all.

 

[Rhodri_Taliesin]

Apologies. It's just grating that people think the combat being slow is good yet all it has done is dumbed everything down. It's nice seeing someone from MO1 agree that the combat is slow, that's all.

Apology accepted as I'm not interested in maintaining grudges over this game or any iteration of it.

I think I can see both sides as slower combat allows for some kind of equalizing between high and low ping users, which was an issue in the original game.

That said, if the combat is so slow that misdirection and feinting plays are impossible, then something's got to give.

There's more to go along with this topic I think the stamina and tracer issues would go a long way to improving things were they resolved, then we can talk about how slow combat is.

 

[Handsome Young Man]

Apology accepted as I'm not interested in maintaining grudges over this game or any iteration of it.

I think I can see both sides as slower combat allows for some kind of equalizing between high and low ping users, which was an issue in the original game.

That said, if the combat is so slow that misdirection and feinting plays are impossible, then something's got to give.

There's more to go along with this topic I think the stamina and tracer issues would go a long way to improving things were they resolved, then we can talk about how slow combat is.

I'm not sure if youre aware of this but they did ping normalization which brings the question of why did they slow both attacks and movement speed down. The ping issue was somewhat remedied but now we cant see if it would of made a difference cause now everything is slower across the board.

 

[Rhodri_Taliesin]

I'm not sure if youre aware of this but they did ping normalization which brings the question of why did they slow both attacks and movement speed down. The ping issue was somewhat remedied but now we cant see if it would of made a difference cause now everything is slower across the board.

Well without a lot of optimization it will be difficult to make any kind of determination regarding that. Even at potato/MLG settings I was barely breaking 32+fps in Fabernum after crossing the continent on foot. I jumped up to 40+ FPS after doing a client reboot.

Ping normalization would help in some instances I think but even then what I observed was choppy and inconsistent.

 

[Eldrath]

Stamina: The regeneration of stamina in combat situations is intolerably slow, and consumption of stamina while using sword/shield combo was near impossible to manage, especially if outnumbered.

Yes, this is a big problem. After doing several 1vX since the beta started I definitely feel that stamina is working against you.

Partly it´s because of the huge chunks you loose when you are being hit. It makes it very hard to follow up on a kill even when you got someone to one hit. I think they should remove that mechanic altogether. There are enough ways to run out of stamina and the time-to-kill is very long anyway.

I agree with the rest of your feedback and as a Vet you might appreciate that Mats is back and is working on the lore.

Edit:
Armor weight decreases stamina regeneration as well, but the lack of stamina is still noticeable on low weight armors.

 

[Rhodri_Taliesin]

Good to see that Mat

Yes, this is a big problem. After doing several 1vX since the beta started I definitely feel that stamina is working against you.

Partly it´s because of the huge chunks you loose when you are being hit. It makes it very hard to follow up on a kill even when you got someone to one hit. I think they should remove that mechanic altogether. There are enough ways to run out of stamina and the time-to-kill is very long anyway.

I agree with the rest of your feedback and as a Vet you might appreciate that Mats is back and is working on the lore.

Edit:
Armor weight decreases stamina regeneration as well, but the lack of stamina is still noticeable on low weight armors.

I will say I am excited to hear that Matts is back on task and can finish his masterpiece. I am also happy we can agree on most things in regard to my feedback. I did put some thought into it.

Edit: I think it may be worth testing to speed up the attack mechanics some and to perhaps even reduce or remove stamina penalties on block/parry and on received damage. Perhaps maybe only certain classes of weapon should damage stamina, such as blunt/heavy weapons which may knock the wind out of you?

 

[bbihah]

That would indeed give maces something to encourage their use.

 

[Eldrath]

Good to see that Mat

I will say I am excited to hear that Matts is back on task and can finish his masterpiece. I am also happy we can agree on most things in regard to my feedback. I did put some thought into it.

Edit: I think it may be worth testing to speed up the attack mechanics some and to perhaps even reduce or remove stamina penalties on block/parry and on received damage. Perhaps maybe only certain classes of weapon should damage stamina, such as blunt/heavy weapons which may knock the wind out of you?

That would be worth trying. If you limit the stamina damage to weapons that themselves consume 20+ stamina it might be more balanced. Otherwise light blunt weapons would become to powerful compared to weapons that can´t deal stamina damage.

I would suggest having stamina damage start a about 35 blunt damage and increasing from there. That would leave low weight maces and axes out of the equation and you get an extra bonus to using a 4+kg weapon.

Attack animations for all "fast" weapons (all daggers, light maces, one handed swords) should be sped up to the point where it is still possible to parry the riposte as a high ping player. Then develop a curve of swing speed from that point that takes into account the length of the haft, weight and balance of the weapon. I think some of that already exists (compare poleaxe to regular axe in the same weight class) so it just needs fine tuning.

 

[Kaemik]

I really appreciate that the music was ripped from MO1. It's not like MO1 had a midi soundtrack or anything so it seems to continue to work. New players won't recognize it's old. Old players get a sense of nostalgia from it.

Expanding the soundtrack eventually wouldn't be bad but why spend resources on something that has held up better than any of the other content from MO1?

 

[bbihah]

I think Henrik mentioned in the stream that there are some incoming soundtrack additions to the game.

 

[Zeerey]

Overall I am really enjoying the beta that being said I also want to provide feed back both positive and negative.

Combat - I and the few friends I played with actually very much enjoyed the combat. While there is obviously a lot of room for improvement its in a very strong place to be built on. I personally think the parry and blocking currently should either be slowed down a tiny bit to be more in line with swing speed or swing speed should be brought up to speed to be more in line with Parry speed. I won't say much about the combat because right now its the bare bones and may simply improve by adding feints, block breaks and basic weapon abilities.

Archery - Archery was fun and in a decent spot I think some of the stamina usages on bows could be toned down a bit as well as the fact the bows shoot high is a little odd

The World - I spent my entire day today traveling about with my friends we started in GK and ended in Bakti stopping at the Mino Dungeon, Fabernum, and Vadda. The world is beautiful to say the least and has a lot of room for player housing and TC keeps. Its in very good shape and I personally am very happy with the size increase. That being said It has its flaws and areas that need to be worked on which I'm sure they will. Hopefully the data gathered from this stress test helps them flesh out and polish the areas needed.

Flora - I felt the plant life in the game was really great there is a vast variety depending on the biome your in and I think its all really well done. I'd love to see more of it being gatherable to be used in potions and cooking but neither of those things are in the game yet so I think overall it looks great.

Fauna - I feel the Fauna is majorly lacking for a game that's going to be in persistence towards the end of the month. Right now we have Springbok and they only spawn around the cities which in my opinion wasn't smart. They should have given the Springbok a more dynamic spawn ranging from the Steepe to other forests and areas they might spawn. I'm aware they are planning on having Guards and Rizer for persistence and lets just say for generosity's sake they have a few other creatures as well, Even then 10 creature types in a world this vast is lacking there will be little to no variety. So this is an area I think needs some serious work and overhaul.

Crafting - I feel crafting is pretty awesome and I can't wait for the materials to show up on the item you are crafting instead of everything looking the same, I would like to see a bit more of a difference in the weapon stats based on the material used because testing out each item with different materials I found there wasn't a lot of difference between them, the best and worst only being different by around 4 points. The last little point I'd like to make about crafting is I'd like to see more variety I know overtime there will be but I feel out choices currently are a little limited.

Overall the game is progressing nicely and I am very happy with the state of it for a stress test that being said I still feel it is a long way from launch and that a lot of mechanics need to be in place and polished before persistence launch! Happy hunting!

 

[Zbuciorn]

I managed to lunch MO2 on the PC with A10 processor with integrated R7 GPU and 16GB ram.
It was "running" steady 5fpswhich is kind of good news for crafters and traders. They may be able to log in to check the market and do
some simple stuff from low spec machines when they travel or working.

 

[bbihah]

you'll definitely be able to run ~25 fps with integrated vega 8> or intel equivalent . 1660 mobile or 5500m should be able to run the game above 30 fps on medium shadows and rest around high. CPU with good single core turbo is very important though, decent multi-core might work better as time goes on in mo2.

 

[ThaBadMan]

I think combat speed is actually in a pretty good place, it lets you think a lot more when you are in bigger fights and it feels like moving about is a bigger commitment than before. The stam regen is also in my opinion way too slow.



Still have not found what melee weapon I like the most. The one handed swords seem that they have a too small window of swings landing without hitting a handle hit, just tad bit too close and its a handle hit, an inch away and you miss. Not much reason not to go one of the 2h swords instead, they seem to be easier to hit with both because the longer range and but also up close since the swing arc seems to be pretty good letting it go a lot closer than you'd think it would.

I love bows, but now they are completely borked where you have no point of reference with the stronger bows. The shot just goes way above both the middle screen marker and the arrow. So that definitely needs work, aiming without any point of reference is incredibly annoying.


Fights feel pretty well synced, only time I noticed anything even remotely wonky syncwise was during the stress test and it was against someone with high ping and instead of being hit from a long distance like in the old system in mo1 or early mo2 it was now just an arms length away so it didn't feel nearly as broken.

Thats alot of what is wrong atm I feel, promoting standing still thinking rather than acting is not right in combat imo. We train combat to be able to act on rememberance and muscle memoryrather than spend time thinking which will get you killed. Very backwards for fighters but benefitial to non fighters.

Yes they did nothing to stamina while slowing down every action, what then happens is that you spend way more stamina or energy going 10 meters so you restrict individual skill per energy or stamina used. Promotes zerging over training. Why train when you gain more by recruiting ?

Shorter weapons lose more than longer ones the slower things are since its harder and more restricting to move around. Promotes standing still parrying with long range weapon.

Imo group fighting has gone down quite a bit since a few patches ago.
Slower combat means its easier to read movement in combat and results in very easy hits which means more need of parries in group fights aswell now, especially when outnumbered, which is a damn shame.

Slow combat has too many downsides imo than upsides. Now with ping normalization things should be sped up and a better place found that benefits more players than just old and non combat oriented players.
Combat is meant to be fun for its intended audience, not feel good to non combat players so they can have things easier. There just aint a arguement against raising it now with ping norm being a thing.

 

[bbihah]

Moving slowly is not standing still, there is a difference between moving about and gauging your enemy and rushing straight in.
If we could just act on pure muscle memory and constantly rush groups of people without a single forethought then that would make the exact opposite of the high risk gameplay that a full loot game should entail.


I do agree that it could use a slight increase in speed or at least mobility but it better not come at a cost of the stability between high and low ping we have now.
If they could achieve generally more mobility without messing up the sync with more speed that would work too.

I've been using spears(but also some daggers for facehugging fun) a bit, and although they are quite bad in 1v1, you can sort of get around this by baiting that you are trying to trade for blows and then just not and using the superior range to get a hit in when they are unable to block. If we had even an inch of more desync than we do now things like that would not work and we'd have the constant sprinting trying to go for each others back, more than we already have even with the acceleration, turn caps and better sync.

Part of the ping normalization was the slowdown, if you just crank up the speed you are just walking back the normalization.

 

[ThaBadMan]

Moving slowly is not standing still, there is a difference between moving about and gauging your enemy and rushing straight in.
If we could just act on pure muscle memory and constantly rush groups of people without a single forethought then that would make the exact opposite of the high risk gameplay that a full loot game should entail.


I do agree that it could use a slight increase in speed or at least mobility but it better not come at a cost of the stability between high and low ping we have now.
If they could achieve generally more mobility without messing up the sync with more speed that would work too.

I've been using spears(but also some daggers for facehugging fun) a bit, and although they are quite bad in 1v1, you can sort of get around this by baiting that you are trying to trade for blows and then just not and using the superior range to get a hit in when they are unable to block. If we had even an inch of more desync than we do now things like that would not work and we'd have the constant sprinting trying to go for each others back, more than we already have even with the acceleration, turn caps and better sync.

Part of the ping normalization was the slowdown, if you just crank up the speed you are just walking back the normalization.

When did I say I want braindead combat where you dont have to think ?

I said training is so important for combat to NOT have to think when FIGHTING, which means when you see a hit the right block automatically gets pressed because you drilled it enough so you dont have to spend those ms thinking of what to do.
The thinking you should do is tactical and strategic plays while making your skill help you survive and kill enemies on autopilot.

The less speed the more you hinder players skill and handicaps the reactionists who are the best fighters only trumped by experience, but when experience means nothing due to slow speed, your left with a tiny skill ceiling where random chances, gear and numbers are way more important than skill.

Ping normalization was slowing down higher ping users than the ping set in the normalization which was 100 ping I think. So myself I am now playing the game with 160 or so ping after the normalization and before I played at 60.
Before the normalization UK based players did not play much of their swing animations before the hit landed, now they play almost the entire animation.
Ping normalization has nothing to do with speed but how much ping breaks the games rules like animation Id say.
UK players had super swing speeds until ping norm hit you see, when SV made the longer charge time everyone was impacted besides UK players, even if they sped down move and swing speeds it only affected higher than the very lowest ping.