Bandages - Community Discussion

[Phen]

I was more saying that to the second part of your post. The part I underlined just made me laugh. I thought by "vet healer" you meant to heal pets though. Like having someone in your group just to heal your mounts lmao

Who knows, maybe a good mounts will be hard to come by. Plus a breeder would have such skills, just because livestock was expensive and highly used.

I was just throwing out an idea for those non combat players who do want to still be involved with war. Not to mention, mounts shouldn't be so disposable. But back to bandage topic.

 

[ThaBadMan]

I know this will have great opposition but here goes.

In MO1 there was simply a ridiculous amount of in combat healing, making players able to lose a fight 20 times in order to get lucky and win the last 21st fight in one duel or fight scenario.

I propose a risk vs reward bandage.

Works like MO1 bandages where you apply it and several seconds later healing pops, but if hit during this time theres no healing and a longer than usual cooldown on using the next. If you heal with a bandage theres a normal cooldown to reuse.

We know due to the lesser peasantry of this game and game of these types that the game will have a ridiculous amount of in combat healing so imo we should limit healing in all possible areas before players get used to their 3-12 extra lives in combat due to how easy it is to kite in these games.

Also if there are bleeding dmg, then bandage should be the only option to stop the bleeding effect.
Bandage imo should also not heal for too much dmg, it should be viewed as the lowest tier of healing followed by magic and potions. Imo you should not be able to outheal resting with bandages in the long run.(Basically a guy resting from 1 hp to full heals to full faster than a guy bandaging from 1 hp to full).

 

[MolagAmur]

I know this will have great opposition but here goes.

In MO1 there was simply a ridiculous amount of in combat healing, making players able to lose a fight 20 times in order to get lucky and win the last 21st fight in one duel or fight scenario.

I propose a risk vs reward bandage.

Works like MO1 bandages where you apply it and several seconds later healing pops, but if hit during this time theres no healing and a longer than usual cooldown on using the next. If you heal with a bandage theres a normal cooldown to reuse.

We know due to the lesser peasantry of this game and game of these types that the game will have a ridiculous amount of in combat healing so imo we should limit healing in all possible areas before players get used to their 3-12 extra lives in combat due to how easy it is to kite in these games.

Also if there are bleeding dmg, then bandage should be the only option to stop the bleeding effect.
Bandage imo should also not heal for too much dmg, it should be viewed as the lowest tier of healing followed by magic and potions. Imo you should not be able to outheal resting with bandages in the long run.(Basically a guy resting from 1 hp to full heals to full faster than a guy bandaging from 1 hp to full).

You're right...this sounds terrible. Did you already sign up for a zerg guild? Why in the seven fucks are people wanting less combat healing? Youre making expensive potions even more meta. You're also talking about a drastic change in combat. And you're advocating for more numbers to have a significant advantage. Especially with the "zero heal if hit while waiting on a bandage". Youre essentially making mages overpowered and I can already see mounted mages sitting behind the fight whose only purpose is to heal. It would be nearly impossible to win outnumbered this way.

I hope SV ignores this entire thread if I'm being honest. The suggestions some of you guys are pulling out of your ass are dangerous...

 

[bbihah]

I'm of the unpopular opinion that almost all healing should be some kind of overtime healing rather than instant.
Had the same opinion in mo1. Why does all the mage healing have to be instant healing that you can only counter with other magic?

Same with bandages, why does it have to give you the entire heal of the bandage after X time? Why can't it have a much longer duration and heal a bit every now and then. With hits taken decreasing the heal also with a very brief application of the bandage requiring you to stand still. Sort of the same as it would be casting a healing spell.


Mo1 had the issue that multiple mages could work one player = massive burst heals or corruption immunity while getting healed. Combine that with a tanky player and its just way too strong and encourages the wrong kind of gameplay.(IMO)

Heals could be heal over times almost exclusively, or delayed heals (sort of like bandages but applied from range). Imagine the lesser heal of ecumenical was a X amount of time from cast on target delayed heal (which opens it up for active counter with damage or corruption). While the greater heal is a heal over time that gets decreased from hits taken, this includes parried hits. Maybe make that one of the benefits of shields, decreasing the heal reduce of hits taken when you block with a shield. Since they do little more than protect your weapon durability atm anyway.

This limits the exponential heal increase you get from having multiple mages healing one person as well as the counter healing protection that a purify coordinated mage have on top of having other mages healing. If the delayed heal time is long enough and visually apparent enough, the corruption spell could just become a complete "PURGE" kind of ability. Heck purify and corruption could be combined into one spell(for purpose anyway). They remove buffs AND debuffs. Meaning if you have some sort of damage over time effect from say, a new spell or say, fireball keeps its long range and low damage but has a tiny long lasting dot effect on it, would open up Purify/corruption's use defensively, while it can be used offensively to cancel bandages, incoming heals, heal over times, spell reflects and whatever buffs you can activate from your clade.


Mo1 overdid the staying in combat while taking loads of damage as well as the run away and getting back into combat way too quick.


But that is just my opinion on healing anyway.

 

[Zbuciorn]

My personal suggestion to bandages.
Not in any decent order but here it is..

• Bandages can by applied to pets.

Healing your pets make sense.
Using bandages on someone who is resting by another player could be ok too.

 

[Bathor]

Or do it like any other first person game - implement mouse-wheel toggle or number-press toggle for the stuff in your hands, make bandages a handheld item and hold mouse to use. Like Left4Dead and Warhammer Vermintide 2 did it for instance. I think you could also use on yourself or an ally nearby who was standing still.

 

[Kelzyr]

IF you were to make the bandage a channel ability I think you would need to have the heal tick while channeling. To make that concept clear that means if it takes 3 seconds to channel 50 hp you would have it heal you for 8(ish) hp in 0.5s or 16(ish) hp in 1s intervals during the channel (obviously the hp changes when you're moving and whatnot). This would allow for minor healing while kiting and reduces the chance of getting corrupted mid channel making it completely useless.

I understand in MO1 a well timed corruption could make a bandage useless as well, but I don't think it was 6 seconds before the bandage popped.

I personally don't think that it makes much sense for others to be able to apply bandages to you. Even if they can I'd think you'd be better off with a mage healing you because it takes less time to cast a heal that would probably heal for more than the bandage (unless bandages get buffed) which would make having another person channeling a bandage pointless and a waste of a fighter.

 

[Steinerr]

 

[Phen]

Its not about having someone do it for you, thats exactly what mages are for. The point of having a backline is to have a safe place for healing in war. Many wars of this era had cooks, medical staff, communicators, ect. Just to keep everything rolling smoothly and the soilders up to par for war.

I personally think a huge upgrade to bandages turning them into a multi function would create a new role in wars. I understand it may not be what everyone wants. But if we wanna get real, bandages were just wet cloth, open cuts were carterized, large gashes were stiched up, thats just about all they could do in that time. I would love to see it in MO. Just cuase healing of that era was very limited anyways. Adding more types of healing doesnt restrict possibilities, just gives more for a player to do.

Not everyone is about combat, team work goes so far in MO, I really just hope we get more from MO2 and not the same stuff reworked.

-Phen

 

[Kelzyr]

Its not about having someone do it for you, thats exactly what mages are for. The point of having a backline is to have a safe place for healing in war. Many wars of this era had cooks, medical staff, communicators, ect. Just to keep everything rolling smoothly and the soilders up to par for war.

All of those roles you're talking about were back in the camp ways off from the real battle field. I don't really have tons on complaints about allowing others to apply bandages to you as long as all parties are standing still, but I don't think you need to overcomplicate the bandaging system...chances are it'll end up bolstering zerg mentality and that's not something I'd like to see.

I personally think a huge upgrade to bandages turning them into a multi function would create a new role in wars. I understand it may not be what everyone wants. But if we wanna get real, bandages were just wet cloth, open cuts were carterized, large gashes were stiched up, thats just about all they could do in that time. I would love to see it in MO. Just cuase healing of that era was very limited anyways. Adding more types of healing doesnt restrict possibilities, just gives more for a player to do.

Not everyone is about combat, team work goes so far in MO, I really just hope we get more from MO2 and not the same stuff reworked.

-Phen

I think too much realism in a game is a bad thing. Obviously everyone knows that bandages don't really have any true healing properties, but the idea is to give non-mages a form of healing other than potions.

 

[Rulant]

I know this will have great opposition but here goes.

In MO1 there was simply a ridiculous amount of in combat healing, making players able to lose a fight 20 times in order to get lucky and win the last 21st fight in one duel or fight scenario.

I propose a risk vs reward bandage.

Works like MO1 bandages where you apply it and several seconds later healing pops, but if hit during this time theres no healing and a longer than usual cooldown on using the next. If you heal with a bandage theres a normal cooldown to reuse.

We know due to the lesser peasantry of this game and game of these types that the game will have a ridiculous amount of in combat healing so imo we should limit healing in all possible areas before players get used to their 3-12 extra lives in combat due to how easy it is to kite in these games.

Also if there are bleeding dmg, then bandage should be the only option to stop the bleeding effect.
Bandage imo should also not heal for too much dmg, it should be viewed as the lowest tier of healing followed by magic and potions. Imo you should not be able to outheal resting with bandages in the long run.(Basically a guy resting from 1 hp to full heals to full faster than a guy bandaging from 1 hp to full).

Having no combat healing in a game that is full loot is horrible, just look at life is feudal. Not being able to come back from a tiny slip or a surprise attack when you can lose hours and hours of work is dumb as can be, especially when it only really doesn't hurt thick ass groups since they can just cycle out people easily. I guess I expected more from old players but.... dear lord man. If you can't finish someone off then that's your own fault, hitting a corrupt and fireball aint hard, i sling em miles away everyone turnin to dust.

 

[Rhias]

I know this thread is about bandages, and potions are a bit off topic.
However, it like to state that I don't want to see potions in the same state as MO1.
In my opinion it was game breaking that people in high tier armors that were somewhere completely stammed out could just go out of combat mode and heal mid fight by 100+ life almost instantly.

 

[Kelzyr]

I know this thread is about bandages, and potions are a bit off topic.
However, it like to state that I don't want to see potions in the same state as MO1.
In my opinion it was game breaking that people in high tier armors that were somewhere completely stammed out could just go out of combat mode and heal mid fight by 100+ life almost instantly.

If I could like this 1000 times I would

 

[Rulant]

Its not about having someone do it for you, thats exactly what mages are for. The point of having a backline is to have a safe place for healing in war. Many wars of this era had cooks, medical staff, communicators, ect. Just to keep everything rolling smoothly and the soilders up to par for war.

I personally think a huge upgrade to bandages turning them into a multi function would create a new role in wars. I understand it may not be what everyone wants. But if we wanna get real, bandages were just wet cloth, open cuts were carterized, large gashes were stiched up, thats just about all they could do in that time. I would love to see it in MO. Just cuase healing of that era was very limited anyways. Adding more types of healing doesnt restrict possibilities, just gives more for a player to do.

Not everyone is about combat, team work goes so far in MO, I really just hope we get more from MO2 and not the same stuff reworked.

-Phen

Stop trying to compare things to real life in MO or any fantasy game. What 'era' is this? Early roman empire? 13th century England? Japan somewhere between 1300s and 1800s? The great underground dwarven nation that existed from 1300 BC to 35 AD?

Over-complicating things always hurts when it can be done simply and effectively. KISS.

 

[MolagAmur]

I'm of the unpopular opinion that almost all healing should be some kind of overtime healing rather than instant.
Had the same opinion in mo1. Why does all the mage healing have to be instant healing that you can only counter with other magic?

Same with bandages, why does it have to give you the entire heal of the bandage after X time? Why can't it have a much longer duration and heal a bit every now and then. With hits taken decreasing the heal also with a very brief application of the bandage requiring you to stand still. Sort of the same as it would be casting a healing spell.


Mo1 had the issue that multiple mages could work one player = massive burst heals or corruption immunity while getting healed. Combine that with a tanky player and its just way too strong and encourages the wrong kind of gameplay.(IMO)

Heals could be heal over times almost exclusively, or delayed heals (sort of like bandages but applied from range). Imagine the lesser heal of ecumenical was a X amount of time from cast on target delayed heal (which opens it up for active counter with damage or corruption). While the greater heal is a heal over time that gets decreased from hits taken, this includes parried hits. Maybe make that one of the benefits of shields, decreasing the heal reduce of hits taken when you block with a shield. Since they do little more than protect your weapon durability atm anyway.

This limits the exponential heal increase you get from having multiple mages healing one person as well as the counter healing protection that a purify coordinated mage have on top of having other mages healing. If the delayed heal time is long enough and visually apparent enough, the corruption spell could just become a complete "PURGE" kind of ability. Heck purify and corruption could be combined into one spell(for purpose anyway). They remove buffs AND debuffs. Meaning if you have some sort of damage over time effect from say, a new spell or say, fireball keeps its long range and low damage but has a tiny long lasting dot effect on it, would open up Purify/corruption's use defensively, while it can be used offensively to cancel bandages, incoming heals, heal over times, spell reflects and whatever buffs you can activate from your clade


Mo1 overdid the staying in combat while taking loads of damage as well as the run away and getting back into combat way too quick.

Yeah. Imagine your group getting EQd by a mounted fat mage and you're all at 50% HP or less instantly...then the enemy foot group pushes in. Man those heal over time bandies that you get from that 6 second channel would be awesome wouldnt it?


Yikes. It would be an instant loss. Mages having burst heals and having the ability to quickly heal up someone through coordination makes team work and comms important. All this talk about nerfing burst healing and having this slow HoT sounds like you guys want more a a 1v1 duel or blob pvp game. It also means if you don't run expensive potions you're gonna have a really bad time.

With some of the suggestions in this thread people are making a mounted/pet/archer/mage meta even stronger.

 

[Teknique]

Yeah. Imagine your group getting EQd by a mounted fat mage and you're all at 50% HP or less instantly...then the enemy foot group pushes in. Man those heal over time bandies that you get from that 6 second channel would be awesome wouldnt it?


Yikes. It would be an instant loss. Mages having burst heals and having the ability to quickly heal up someone through coordination makes team work and comms important. All this talk about nerfing burst healing and having this slow HoT sounds like you guys want more a a 1v1 duel or blob pvp game. It also means if you don't run expensive potions you're gonna have a really bad time.

With some of the suggestions in this thread people are making a mounted/pet/archer/mage meta even stronger.

It does seem like we are just trying to "balance" individual mechanics against themselves doesn't it? Instead of actually looking at umm yknow the game and how the mechanics work with eachother

 

[MolagAmur]

It does seem like we are just trying to "balance" individual mechanics against themselves doesn't it? Instead of actually looking at umm yknow the game and how the mechanics work with eachother

It does. Everyone is getting their stupid little ideas in their head that they think sound cool and realistic without any regard to how it will actually effect the game itself. Its why I've said recently that I kinda dislike Devs even listening to their community on topics like this. You see some insane suggestions come up that just may plant a seed in their head to make some horrible change.


Bandages and healing were fine in MO1 guys. Let's focus on the shit that actually didn't work first yeah?

 

[Teknique]

It does. Everyone is getting their stupid little ideas in their head that they think sound cool and realistic without any regard to how it will actually effect the game itself. Its why I've said recently that I kinda dislike Devs even listening to their community on topics like this. You see some insane suggestions come up that just may plant a seed in their head to make some horrible change.


Bandages and healing were fine in MO1 guys. Let's focus on the shit that actually didn't work first yeah?

I've been fighting this battle basically on my own for the last several months, other than the occasional comment from Perro and maybe 1 or 2 individuals. I've just been called resistant to change, a troll, whiny baby, etc and much much more. I'm about depleted of energy. While legions of kids i've never even heard told me about all the awesome things that need to be in MO or were bad about MO.

Really need a call to arms from ACTUAL MO community here.

 

[MolagAmur]

I've been fighting this battle basically on my own for the last several months, other than the occasional comment from Perro and maybe 1 or 2 individuals. I've just been called resistant to change, a troll, whiny baby, etc and much much more. I'm about depleted of energy. While legions of kids i've never even heard told me about all the awesome things that need to be in MO or were bad about MO.

Really need a call to arms from ACTUAL MO community here.

Well development has come far enough for me to really want to get invested and try to help out. I also told two others who are MO vets to start voicing their opinion more on these topics. Don't get me wrong...a new player can come in and give a great suggestion that some of us older players may be blind to. There is that, but then there are these people coming in with these off the wall suggestions that may have worked in their previous game they played and instantly want it added here without even knowing how combat works outside of 1v1 duels in combat alpha. And then there are the people who talk about realism(lmfao).

We all want the same thing here....the best the game can be. But in the 8 years on the MO forums how often did you hear about people complaining about in-combat healing being too high? Other than overpowered potions that were mass produced? Maybe a handful?

 

[Eldrath]

Really need a call to arms from ACTUAL MO community here.

I´m sure you can get some of the kranesh kids to join you into being illogical crybabies. Or maybe they have grown up. One can hope.

It does. Everyone is getting their stupid little ideas in their head that they think sound cool and realistic without any regard to how it will actually effect the game itself. Its why I've said recently that I kinda dislike Devs even listening to their community on topics like this. You see some insane suggestions come up that just may plant a seed in their head to make some horrible change.


Bandages and healing were fine in MO1 guys. Let's focus on the shit that actually didn't work first yeah?

Healing was not fine by any stretch of the imagination. It was illogical and - depending what time frame you are looking at - gear based to a hilarious degree.

As soon as you base something on gear and make a "must-have" it will take away any ability to fight the zerg. Cause the zerg will always be able to restrict your access to a limited resource.

Healing should be sorted in the tiers I proposed with increasing cost and skill limit but never being exclusive enough for it being a bottleneck.

It should also be logical. Bandages are not. It´s not that hard to rename something and while keeping the underlying mechanic.