Balancing notes for if the game was actually fun

[Matze88]

Quite the opposite I’m trying to resurrect classes that don’t exist and aren’t fun to play like mounted combat and taming lvl 12 regular wolves with 6 hp (how did this ever make it into the game).

Balance is about give and take. “Footsie knights” will be telling me im trying to buff mounteds and make it mo1. Not just nerf everything to the ground which is the usual modus operandi around these parts.

I also played every single class in the original game. Which is why I think I understand the balancing well

Sorry man but I don’t see it, you nerf mounted to a point where it’s probably not even playable anymore.
The person with horse should have a significant advantage against someone on foot. With all those ways to screw over the rider, he should be able to almost oneshot anyone when he charges someone with a lance… and what about the dmgnerf and longer Casttime? You would literrly make mm unplayable

To balance mounted combat properly we would need two types of horses, warhorses and normal ones.

Warhorses should be the one beeing able to carry a knight and have a lot of hp but they need to be a very valuable resource that actually costs a lot to replenish if it gets killed.


This whole let’s nerf mounted combat to a point that a footsie has an even chance to win a 1on1 is wrong.
Knights were mounted in the middleages for a reason.


Currently horses have no real value, that’s what makes it to a problem

 

[Hodo]

I just love how the game originally launched with a foot combat alpha (because foot combat is actually entertaining), but the only real way to play the game is mounted. Because travel and carry weight. then on top you get 2 health bars, can heal your mount while riding, can run for free, can chase EZ, dont need to worry about stamming with a weapon, and cant get stickied as a mage.

The game originally launched as a sandbox MMO, not a melee fighting simulator. At least that was what the website said way back in 2008.

 

[Jatix]

The game originally launched as a sandbox MMO, not a melee fighting simulator. At least that was what the website said way back in 2008.

And theres still no sand lol

 

[2Op4Scrubs]

"Nerf Mounted"
"Nerf Mage"
"Nerf Tamers"
"Buff Foot fighters."

 

[Teknique]

"Nerf Mounted"
"Nerf Mage"
"Nerf Tamers"
"Buff Foot fighters."

Don’t agree with that assessment it’s buffs and nerfs hence balance

 

[2Op4Scrubs]

Don’t agree with that assessment it’s buffs and nerfs hence balance

Mounted combat is a meme tbh, MA is worse.
But Look if you think mounted is broken now, Just wait until horse trample is in.
Mounted combat, MA, MM will be strong as fuck then. (If it works.)
But you only want to buff FF in pvp, And Nurf everything els in PVP, But buff it in PVE.
So it sounds like you want every other class besides foot fighter to farm shit for you, Then you just counter them no matter what and kill them, and get their shit no matter what. GG

 

[Teknique]

Mounted combat is a meme tbh, MA is worse.
But Look if you think mounted is broken now, Just wait until horse trample is in.
Mounted combat, MA, MM will be strong as fuck then. (If it works.)
But you only want to buff FF in pvp, And Nurf everything els in PVP, But buff it in PVE.
So it sounds like you want every other class besides foot fighter to farm shit for you, Then you just counter them no matter what and kill them, and get their shit no matter what. GG

For context foot fighter is my least favorite class. I don’t think mounted is broken right now other than fatmage and the lack of dismount mechanics. I want mounted to actually be fun hence increased speed, add bull horse and breeding. These buffs would be overwhelming and broken if not accompanied with multiple dismount mechanics. Tamer also is really boring with the way the pet leveling system works. I want them buffed by pet binding and unlocking useful abilities as well as reworking how difficult it is to tame. This also can not occur without significant balancing or would otherwise be broken. Mage casting with shield isn’t skill based and your parry and positioning should matter not wearing a house on your back.

The reason the game is so dog right now is that things are balanced around foot fighters. Hence footfighters need a buff so that everyone else can come up too. Unless you really enjoy tame a lvl 12 bear online.

In conclusion I actually despise this game because of it being footfighter online and I’m trying to fix it. The reason we had it so long is kids like you who were irresponsible in the first game and didn’t realize that certain classes were super overtuned and now they have been super undertuned or at least underfun to compensate.

 

[Albanjo Dravae]

Changes:
- Added a primary skill hamstringing which gives a 30% chance to dismount on melee attack (foot only)
- taking damage while riding third speed has a 50% chance of dropping to first gear
-spears have a 100% chance of slowing mounts to first speed for 3 seconds when dealing above 25 damage
- marksmanship greatly increase chance of dismount on headshot
-removed turn penalty on mounted archery
- “lightning” now slows mounted to 2nd speed for 3 seconds
- arrows have a slight chance to dismount
- dismounted players can not remount for 3 seconds
- increased mounted speeds
- added bull horse
- added breeding (careful balance)
- added primary skill under mounted combat “knights will” greatly reduces effect of armor weight on horse speed and adds free armor weight to player (does not stack with heavy armor training)
- adjusted mounted combat animations to be smoother
- reduced magic damage that you deal while mounted by 30%
- added 1.5 seconds flat cast time to all spells while mounted
- you can longer cast with shields equipped
- npcs no longer interrupt casting
- doubled magic damage to pve npcs
- added spell “sleep” incapacitates an npc for 60 seconds damage will break the effect
- added spell “mage armor” chance to slow npcs that attack
- Reduced pet damage to players by 75%
- increased pet damage to npcs by 75%
-reduced pet dmg received from npcs by 75%
- Pets now unlock spells that the caster can use
-tames are no longer locked to lvl 50 and instead are creature specific
- pets can now be bound and cost 100 gold to resurrect


There’s probably way more I could add but that’s my first draft

I like some of the suggestions.

But i do think the game needs more than just isolated suggestions to improve very particular mechanics. Im against SV's bandage development, when instead of designing, developing and releasing an entire module of content they rather passively "fix" litle things absolutly discretionally.

I'd like to see for a change, modules of working content that grab and fix everything related to that particular issue.

For example, i rather see them work continously on everything that involves pet usage and beast mastery, instead of doing a millon small fixes concerning a diversity of problematics.

Theres an expression where i live that says something along the lines that, "the one that squeezes a lot, grabs little" or "the one that covers a lot, grabs little".
This means we never see the "end" of a feature, and we can only grasp one bandage at a time with the hope in several years it will look more "round".

Developing like this, destroys perspective. We don't know what and when it comes, and most of the content are just promises of "cool stuff". I mean, do i really have to talk about the quality of the content they have been releasing, do i have to give examples?

They keep going forward, adding more tameable pets, this and that, but beast mastery gamestyle is placeholder skilless garbo. Or they keep going forward adding new materials and a bunch of useless shit instead of reworking crafting.

Sadly MO2 looks exacly like MO1 development, with the same one bandage at a time modus operandi, its their only development criteria.

It is understandable they have a team that can work on a diversity of things at a time yet whats not understandable is the nature of placeholder content development.
This bandage development makes me think they don't know whats next and they don't think from the general to the particular, that they don't have a plan and they just "improvise" along the way. Not that improvising is wrong, but whats wrong is not having a plan in the first place.

 

[Albanjo Dravae]

Sorry man but I don’t see it, you nerf mounted to a point where it’s probably not even playable anymore.
The person with horse should have a significant advantage against someone on foot. With all those ways to screw over the rider, he should be able to almost oneshot anyone when he charges someone with a lance… and what about the dmgnerf and longer Casttime? You would literrly make mm unplayable

To balance mounted combat properly we would need two types of horses, warhorses and normal ones.

Warhorses should be the one beeing able to carry a knight and have a lot of hp but they need to be a very valuable resource that actually costs a lot to replenish if it gets killed.


This whole let’s nerf mounted combat to a point that a footsie has an even chance to win a 1on1 is wrong.
Knights were mounted in the middleages for a reason.


Currently horses have no real value, that’s what makes it to a problem

We at a tipping point, where its necessary to balance mounteds properly. I've had several mounted characters in MO1 and i have them in MO2 aswell, there are radical differences between the 2 games yet at least we know what did and didn't work in MO1.

What it didn't work in MO1 and whats not working on MO2 either its the actual mounted concept. That you "have" to make a mounted character to transport anything between cities is an absolute failure when the game its ment to have 1 character per account and one account per player and travelling is such an essential part of the game.

So, that being the case, if you are forced to be mounted to be competitive or at least escape conflict it would only be fair footys can dismount mounteds properly. MO1 had way more dismount features than this shit, and mounted was more gear crutch, imagine breeding, horse stats, broken pre-patch horses. I remember the day they introduced a new feature to promote tamers playing in the wild instead of being behind walls they added "rare" random stats to wild horses that would not pass on when breeding.
Obviously Sebastian is such a genius that horses did pass these "rare" wild stats on breed, making a batch of pre-pre-patch broken ass pets that would be way superior to anything else.

Obviously they let people keep them, because they didn't had a way to remove them in the first place. But this is just one of the many broken ass development failures.

What i wanna say before i ramble too much, is that the mounted concept is broken and unless its fixed it will continue to be a really piece of shit feature to the game.

Why are mounteds broken, first of all because of the current skill-pool one character per account reality, which is really cheap ass design and definitely not an improvement since MO1, i see it like a moneygrab shit tier scam move but hey people like to support game companies being forced to buy shit to have fun.

Then the fact that you have to make a dedicated mounted character to be somewhat efficient and when you are dismounted you are crippled, this tradeoff is shit. If you ask me absolutly every character should have the exact same mounted skills and mounts should be a tool, not the end.

And thats what was wrong with MO1, that mounts werent a tool but the actual end. It was an absolute shit tier gear-horse crutch competition. Top tier builds with mages having a 150g budget build pet included, archers same but heavy armor value added and then MCs who would have over 2-3k gold gear, cuz why not.

The actual question is, what do we want mounted to be. A tool that anyone should have access or the garbage it was in MO1. Because right now its poop and if anyone says its fine its a fucking moron.

Also, the mounted knights argument doesn't apply tho. Thats romanticizing a horse capacity to endure combat and it does not contribute anything to any argument. Quoting "historic" moments as a reference can't be done so lightly, not to mention this is a fantasy game and balance shouldn't be subject of trivial comparisons to reality.

 

[Kaemik]

If two equally sized and geared forces were to meet in battle, one with all foot builds designed to fight on foot, and one entirely mounted builds, and the foot forces were to not win, then those players are beyond trash or the people who designed their builds must be monkeys randomly slamming buttons to determine what skills they took.

This is assuming completely flat terrain with no obstacles. The more features you give the battlefield the stronger the advantage of the foot forces.

MC in it's current state is garbage against anyone on foot. MAs are fairly crap. MM is really good at not dying but far less useful to their team than an unmounted mage.

There is a single balance mechanic foot forces need:

Passenger capable mounts that can keep pace with desert/steppe horses.

Foot builds builds need to be able hop on a mount with their friends and disembark when an actual fight arises without abandoning their mount to die. I get that they don't want pocket mounts like most games but they should have had a solution that allowed foot forces to cross the map at the similar speeds to mounted builds before they took this out of beta.

The lack of this is the ONLY reason mounted builds exist at all among serious PvP forces. If they made it in tomorrow the only people with riding skills would be the people driving the taxis and a few tackler builds for forcing opponents to fight.

If that makes it in you can start buffing every single mounted build.

 

[2Op4Scrubs]

For context foot fighter is my least favorite class. I don’t think mounted is broken right now other than fatmage and the lack of dismount mechanics. I want mounted to actually be fun hence increased speed, add bull horse and breeding. These buffs would be overwhelming and broken if not accompanied with multiple dismount mechanics. Tamer also is really boring with the way the pet leveling system works. I want them buffed by pet binding and unlocking useful abilities as well as reworking how difficult it is to tame. This also can not occur without significant balancing or would otherwise be broken. Mage casting with shield isn’t skill based and your parry and positioning should matter not wearing a house on your back.

The reason the game is so dog right now is that things are balanced around foot fighters. Hence footfighters need a buff so that everyone else can come up too. Unless you really enjoy tame a lvl 12 bear online.

In conclusion I actually despise this game because of it being footfighter online and I’m trying to fix it. The reason we had it so long is kids like you who were irresponsible in the first game and didn’t realize that certain classes were super overtuned and now they have been super undertuned or at least underfun to compensate.

You can not even deny that you said buff FF in pvp, And Nurf everything els in PVP, But buff it in PVE.

"I want to make tamer play more fun and useful"
Reduce time to level, by making animal care a secondary, Allow them to rez pets BUT!!!
*- Reduced pet damage to players by 75%*
Taking away the amount of time to level would not make tamer more fun to play, Just less of a hassle. You want to make mounted faster, bc it would be more fun? How bc you would be able to do more damage as a lancer? But reducing damage pets do by 75% would be fun to the tamers?
No it would be completely useless. And dreadful, When you are leveling your pet you would consider rerolling because its not even worth it.

This would put every pet on the level of necromancy ritual pets. Completely useless and ineffective.
Why do you think Hiney said they are going to buff ritual pets in his stream yesterday? Bc they are Completely useless and ineffective. (Besieds the horses)

Mage casting with a shield is not skilled based, But It is also not skilled based to just run next to them and render the shield completely useless.
FFs cry to add shield weight to armor weight. So they did. Now My pure mage can only wear a shield that is under 2kg and some shitty rugged armor. There is no skill involved in killing a pure mage. So how do we balance that Mighty one?
Here is my thoroughly thought out system on how to balance Pure mages to make them actually worth it and viable.

First lets establish the fact that pure dex mages (Non dagger, non armor wearing, non MM only, non tamer mages) are completely unloved and forgotten about. Everyone that plays a mage, besides a select few, always go tamer, dagger mage, or "wheelchair mages". Here's why.

You can not be a Mage. You are forced into either being Tamer mage, or a Dagger mage. There is no Full mage build. You are forced into gimping your self some how or another. Going the tamer mage you have to gimp your magic load out/capabilities using up to 400points just to have a pets so you can survive. With a dagger mage its the same only worse, because you have to use attribute points to effectively use a melee weapon. Which in turn will make your mana or hp drop considerably. Also you now have to wear armor, effecting your mana regen a fuck ton, limiting your magic damage output. And the armor you get to wear is no more then 10 kgs with 50 armor training (Shit and ineffective). So your in shit armor to begin with, against a chad FF with best armor and 15%+ damage bonus. So even if you have 100 blocking with 100% parry rate they will win just off parries.
The only way to be pure full mage, is to have a group of people to play with. There is no solo mage play. A competent FF can fight off multiple people at once. A competent Mage can kill one guy before they are low of mana, then try to get away and get nothing from the fight. If the group the mage is fighting is competent the only choice is to run, and try to get away. If there is a Dex fighter good luck.
People are mad that mage damage goes through armor. But all you have to do is get a MR or put points into psy to increase your survivability. There is no skill/spell/attribute that allows mages to block physical damage. The only way is to fuck your self over and put on heavy armor. Rendering mana regen non existent and your 600+ points in mages skills are now useless.


Now lets establish what a pure Dex Mage is supposed to be able to do, Its gameplay style on paper.
Dex mages Sacrifice HP, Total mana, magic damage output and Physical resistance for speed. We are squishy as fuck and not a huge threat compared to a fat Oghmir, Sheevra, and Humans. With no more then 105int (W/O trinkets, Same as the baseline for most hybrids.) All of these Sacrifices Just for 1 skill better then the rest, Dexterity. Dexterity defined as: skill in performing tasks, especially with the hands. But it is most commonly only brought up when talking about extreme speed and accuracy. Like when talking about Marital artist for example.

The current balance in game is a complete joke. There is such a drastic sacrifice to be a dex mage, But little sacrifice to be a dex FF.
Dex FFs sacrifice Damage out put and hp. But maintain full speed for wearing heavy armor. So there is nothing viable to allow pure mages any survivability against them, The only thing previously was shields. That got changed bc of cry babys. So now Im am becoming a cry baby to make these changes stay in game, but actually balanced.

Swimming Is a good example of this. It is balanced based on your carry weight and armor equipped. The armor equipped actually counts x2 towards the weight when swimming. Even with full swimming skills your max speed is effected by carry weight. The only way to achieve full speed it to be totally naked with absolutely nothing in your inventory.
This same mechanic should be in place for foot speed. Heavy armor is not as restrictive in movement as everyone thinks it is. I know this. But it is harder and takes more energy exertion to do anything in heavy armor. We do not see this in game at all. The only thing that heavy armor does in game is take stamina regen down to 88% and that is with heavy heavy armor on. Which is a joke because there are 4 skills that reduce stamana usage, or boost stamina gain. But no effect to reduce/increase move speed. Carrying stuff on your back is the most efficient way to transport anything, and I always see people compline that little weak mages shouldn't even be allowed to equip a shield on their back. So all IRL arguments are disregarded.

With this swimming mechanic added to speed on foot. It will allow all of the pure dex mages sacrifices to not be in vain.
Dagger mages will be effected by it the most, Because they have the lowest STG in the game, making them have the lowest carry weight in the game as well (2nd to pure mages). It will barely effect Oghmirs, or Thursar, because they have insane carry weight. Dex fighters will still be quicker then them based raw dexterity skill.
The only thing it will buff would be Pure mages only. If you can even call it a buff. I would call it Actually doing what its supposed to do.


I know this ^ is off topic, But its still on the topic of balance.

 

[Highlander]

You can not even deny that you said buff FF in pvp, And Nurf everything els in PVP, But buff it in PVE.

"I want to make tamer play more fun and useful"
Reduce time to level, by making animal care a secondary, Allow them to rez pets BUT!!!
*- Reduced pet damage to players by 75%*
Taking away the amount of time to level would not make tamer more fun to play, Just less of a hassle. You want to make mounted faster, bc it would be more fun? How bc you would be able to do more damage as a lancer? But reducing damage pets do by 75% would be fun to the tamers?
No it would be completely useless. And dreadful, When you are leveling your pet you would consider rerolling because its not even worth it.

This would put every pet on the level of necromancy ritual pets. Completely useless and ineffective.
Why do you think Hiney said they are going to buff ritual pets in his stream yesterday? Bc they are Completely useless and ineffective. (Besieds the horses)

Mage casting with a shield is not skilled based, But It is also not skilled based to just run next to them and render the shield completely useless.
FFs cry to add shield weight to armor weight. So they did. Now My pure mage can only wear a shield that is under 2kg and some shitty rugged armor. There is no skill involved in killing a pure mage. So how do we balance that Mighty one?
Here is my thoroughly thought out system on how to balance Pure mages to make them actually worth it and viable.

First lets establish the fact that pure dex mages (Non dagger, non armor wearing, non MM only, non tamer mages) are completely unloved and forgotten about. Everyone that plays a mage, besides a select few, always go tamer, dagger mage, or "wheelchair mages". Here's why.

You can not be a Mage. You are forced into either being Tamer mage, or a Dagger mage. There is no Full mage build. You are forced into gimping your self some how or another. Going the tamer mage you have to gimp your magic load out/capabilities using up to 400points just to have a pets so you can survive. With a dagger mage its the same only worse, because you have to use attribute points to effectively use a melee weapon. Which in turn will make your mana or hp drop considerably. Also you now have to wear armor, effecting your mana regen a fuck ton, limiting your magic damage output. And the armor you get to wear is no more then 10 kgs with 50 armor training (Shit and ineffective). So your in shit armor to begin with, against a chad FF with best armor and 15%+ damage bonus. So even if you have 100 blocking with 100% parry rate they will win just off parries.
The only way to be pure full mage, is to have a group of people to play with. There is no solo mage play. A competent FF can fight off multiple people at once. A competent Mage can kill one guy before they are low of mana, then try to get away and get nothing from the fight. If the group the mage is fighting is competent the only choice is to run, and try to get away. If there is a Dex fighter good luck.
People are mad that mage damage goes through armor. But all you have to do is get a MR or put points into psy to increase your survivability. There is no skill/spell/attribute that allows mages to block physical damage. The only way is to fuck your self over and put on heavy armor. Rendering mana regen non existent and your 600+ points in mages skills are now useless.


Now lets establish what a pure Dex Mage is supposed to be able to do, Its gameplay style on paper.
Dex mages Sacrifice HP, Total mana, magic damage output and Physical resistance for speed. We are squishy as fuck and not a huge threat compared to a fat Oghmir, Sheevra, and Humans. With no more then 105int (W/O trinkets, Same as the baseline for most hybrids.) All of these Sacrifices Just for 1 skill better then the rest, Dexterity. Dexterity defined as: skill in performing tasks, especially with the hands. But it is most commonly only brought up when talking about extreme speed and accuracy. Like when talking about Marital artist for example.

The current balance in game is a complete joke. There is such a drastic sacrifice to be a dex mage, But little sacrifice to be a dex FF.
Dex FFs sacrifice Damage out put and hp. But maintain full speed for wearing heavy armor. So there is nothing viable to allow pure mages any survivability against them, The only thing previously was shields. That got changed bc of cry babys. So now Im am becoming a cry baby to make these changes stay in game, but actually balanced.

Swimming Is a good example of this. It is balanced based on your carry weight and armor equipped. The armor equipped actually counts x2 towards the weight when swimming. Even with full swimming skills your max speed is effected by carry weight. The only way to achieve full speed it to be totally naked with absolutely nothing in your inventory.
This same mechanic should be in place for foot speed. Heavy armor is not as restrictive in movement as everyone thinks it is. I know this. But it is harder and takes more energy exertion to do anything in heavy armor. We do not see this in game at all. The only thing that heavy armor does in game is take stamina regen down to 88% and that is with heavy heavy armor on. Which is a joke because there are 4 skills that reduce stamana usage, or boost stamina gain. But no effect to reduce/increase move speed. Carrying stuff on your back is the most efficient way to transport anything, and I always see people compline that little weak mages shouldn't even be allowed to equip a shield on their back. So all IRL arguments are disregarded.

With this swimming mechanic added to speed on foot. It will allow all of the pure dex mages sacrifices to not be in vain.
Dagger mages will be effected by it the most, Because they have the lowest STG in the game, making them have the lowest carry weight in the game as well (2nd to pure mages). It will barely effect Oghmirs, or Thursar, because they have insane carry weight. Dex fighters will still be quicker then them based raw dexterity skill.
The only thing it will buff would be Pure mages only. If you can even call it a buff. I would call it Actually doing what its supposed to do.
View attachment 5154

I know this ^ is off topic, But its still on the topic of balance.

(Dex FFs sacrifice Damage out put and hp. But maintain full speed for wearing heavy armor. So there is nothing viable to allow pure mages any survivability against them, The only thing previously was shields. That got changed bc of cry babys. So now Im am becoming a cry baby to make these changes stay in game, but actually balanced.)


i totally agree on this, would be nice if only mages could run fast and jump high in combat, instead there are these elves with speed buff steel armor 13dmg bonus and 195hp. mages have no chance against them.

 

[Hodo]

dexterity skill.
The only thing it will buff would be Pure mages only. If you can even call it a buff. I would call it Actually doing what its supposed to do.
View attachment 5154

I know this ^ is off topic, But its still on the topic of balance.

PREACH MY MAGE BROTHER!!!!

I am one of those few PURE mages, I have no tames, no melee skills, I dont wear a melee weapon I dont bring a shield. I have 3 magic schools known currently on my build and I am mounted 99% of the time, only because traveling is painful otherwise.

I also have a melee character. I did some testing a couple of days ago. I used the same types of mobs for testing for PVE viability and then fought in several situations in PVP.

My Melee/MC character was able to farm a bandit camp with 2 vet casters, 1 healer, 1 bandit and 1 vet bandit in about 5 minutes. I literally ran in and beat the vet casters down, then the healer, then the bandit then the leader. I came out of it about 1/4 health and no real stress. Farming tagmatons, it can be done on foot, it is harder then on mount but it took about 3 minutes a tag on foot, with a lengthy recovery time as they would get me down to about 20 hit points. But I could easily kill a tag in about 2 minutes from mount using MC skills with the same weapon and take no damage. Sators actually were the hardest to deal with as a MC, only because they for some reason have longer reach then a tagmaton. But they died quicker so it wasnt much of an issue, 90sec a sator.

My pure mounted mage. Same bandit camp with same mobs. It took nearly 10 minutes to clear that same camp, I had dropped to 20% mana blown through nearly 1/3 of my reagents and struggled dealing with 2 vet casters and a healer. It would have been impossible on foot. Tagmatons. Only possible on a mount as a mage, no way in hell you survive long enough to blast those down. As your highest damage spell hits a tagmaton for less than 10% of its total health. Sators can be blasted down before they get in range. So possible to farm on foot, but still easier to deal with on mount. Time to kill on the Tag was 3 minutes average per kill. And 2 minutes a Sator if you are mounted. If you are dismounted you can do it in about 45sec.

PVP situations. The Melee/MC didnt have an issue dealing with anything that he happened across. Even MMs were not a major issue. The biggest pain was MAs but that is if they are played smart and keep their distance, mages dont get that option as they cant turn while casting and it is easier to funnel them into a situation where they end up in your reach. And once a mage is on the ground its game over for most fat mages. Yet the inverse to this is the Mounted Mage, has issues dealing with MAs or other MMs and even MCs if they are played right. A MA while will struggle killing the MMs mount, will have little to no issue killing the mage on that mount. Why shoot a horse for 20s that has 300 hit points, when you can shoot the rider for 30s who has 190hit points?

The biggest issue is most players who play melee characters who are getting destroyed by mages are very much the poster child of min-max .

 

[Albanjo Dravae]

You can not even deny that you said buff FF in pvp, And Nurf everything els in PVP, But buff it in PVE.

"I want to make tamer play more fun and useful"
Reduce time to level, by making animal care a secondary, Allow them to rez pets BUT!!!
*- Reduced pet damage to players by 75%*
Taking away the amount of time to level would not make tamer more fun to play, Just less of a hassle. You want to make mounted faster, bc it would be more fun? How bc you would be able to do more damage as a lancer? But reducing damage pets do by 75% would be fun to the tamers?
No it would be completely useless. And dreadful, When you are leveling your pet you would consider rerolling because its not even worth it.

This would put every pet on the level of necromancy ritual pets. Completely useless and ineffective.
Why do you think Hiney said they are going to buff ritual pets in his stream yesterday? Bc they are Completely useless and ineffective. (Besieds the horses)

Mage casting with a shield is not skilled based, But It is also not skilled based to just run next to them and render the shield completely useless.
FFs cry to add shield weight to armor weight. So they did. Now My pure mage can only wear a shield that is under 2kg and some shitty rugged armor. There is no skill involved in killing a pure mage. So how do we balance that Mighty one?
Here is my thoroughly thought out system on how to balance Pure mages to make them actually worth it and viable.

First lets establish the fact that pure dex mages (Non dagger, non armor wearing, non MM only, non tamer mages) are completely unloved and forgotten about. Everyone that plays a mage, besides a select few, always go tamer, dagger mage, or "wheelchair mages". Here's why.

You can not be a Mage. You are forced into either being Tamer mage, or a Dagger mage. There is no Full mage build. You are forced into gimping your self some how or another. Going the tamer mage you have to gimp your magic load out/capabilities using up to 400points just to have a pets so you can survive. With a dagger mage its the same only worse, because you have to use attribute points to effectively use a melee weapon. Which in turn will make your mana or hp drop considerably. Also you now have to wear armor, effecting your mana regen a fuck ton, limiting your magic damage output. And the armor you get to wear is no more then 10 kgs with 50 armor training (Shit and ineffective). So your in shit armor to begin with, against a chad FF with best armor and 15%+ damage bonus. So even if you have 100 blocking with 100% parry rate they will win just off parries.
The only way to be pure full mage, is to have a group of people to play with. There is no solo mage play. A competent FF can fight off multiple people at once. A competent Mage can kill one guy before they are low of mana, then try to get away and get nothing from the fight. If the group the mage is fighting is competent the only choice is to run, and try to get away. If there is a Dex fighter good luck.
People are mad that mage damage goes through armor. But all you have to do is get a MR or put points into psy to increase your survivability. There is no skill/spell/attribute that allows mages to block physical damage. The only way is to fuck your self over and put on heavy armor. Rendering mana regen non existent and your 600+ points in mages skills are now useless.


Now lets establish what a pure Dex Mage is supposed to be able to do, Its gameplay style on paper.
Dex mages Sacrifice HP, Total mana, magic damage output and Physical resistance for speed. We are squishy as fuck and not a huge threat compared to a fat Oghmir, Sheevra, and Humans. With no more then 105int (W/O trinkets, Same as the baseline for most hybrids.) All of these Sacrifices Just for 1 skill better then the rest, Dexterity. Dexterity defined as: skill in performing tasks, especially with the hands. But it is most commonly only brought up when talking about extreme speed and accuracy. Like when talking about Marital artist for example.

The current balance in game is a complete joke. There is such a drastic sacrifice to be a dex mage, But little sacrifice to be a dex FF.
Dex FFs sacrifice Damage out put and hp. But maintain full speed for wearing heavy armor. So there is nothing viable to allow pure mages any survivability against them, The only thing previously was shields. That got changed bc of cry babys. So now Im am becoming a cry baby to make these changes stay in game, but actually balanced.

Swimming Is a good example of this. It is balanced based on your carry weight and armor equipped. The armor equipped actually counts x2 towards the weight when swimming. Even with full swimming skills your max speed is effected by carry weight. The only way to achieve full speed it to be totally naked with absolutely nothing in your inventory.
This same mechanic should be in place for foot speed. Heavy armor is not as restrictive in movement as everyone thinks it is. I know this. But it is harder and takes more energy exertion to do anything in heavy armor. We do not see this in game at all. The only thing that heavy armor does in game is take stamina regen down to 88% and that is with heavy heavy armor on. Which is a joke because there are 4 skills that reduce stamana usage, or boost stamina gain. But no effect to reduce/increase move speed. Carrying stuff on your back is the most efficient way to transport anything, and I always see people compline that little weak mages shouldn't even be allowed to equip a shield on their back. So all IRL arguments are disregarded.

With this swimming mechanic added to speed on foot. It will allow all of the pure dex mages sacrifices to not be in vain.
Dagger mages will be effected by it the most, Because they have the lowest STG in the game, making them have the lowest carry weight in the game as well (2nd to pure mages). It will barely effect Oghmirs, or Thursar, because they have insane carry weight. Dex fighters will still be quicker then them based raw dexterity skill.
The only thing it will buff would be Pure mages only. If you can even call it a buff. I would call it Actually doing what its supposed to do.
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I know this ^ is off topic, But its still on the topic of balance.

Until SV reworks pet mechanics theres no "balance" for PVP. We are talking about a gamestyle about pressing 3 buttons, stop, follow, attack. It would be really demented to buff pets for pvp without making a proper gamestyle.

They keep adding tameable pets and a bunch of bullshit, but the AI is braindead and the actual gamestyle is trash.

In the current state of the game, pets should be a PVE tool instead of a PVP asset, and whoever disagrees with that is a clown.

Reality is most of the content is placeholder and the fact they made the game so they can moneygrab from multiple accounts makes it particularly garbo, the current skill pool design and how specific builds have to be for being at least competitive is idiotic, not even talking about meta builds.

So many failures at so many levels dude, its crazy. This is not new, these problematics come from MO1.

 

[Albanjo Dravae]

PREACH MY MAGE BROTHER!!!!
I am one of those few PURE mages, I have no tames, no melee skills, I dont wear a melee weapon I dont bring a shield. I have 3 magic schools known currently on my build and I am mounted 99% of the time, only because traveling is painful otherwise.

I also have a melee character. I did some testing a couple of days ago. I used the same types of mobs for testing for PVE viability and then fought in several situations in PVP.

My Melee/MC character was able to farm a bandit camp with 2 vet casters, 1 healer, 1 bandit and 1 vet bandit in about 5 minutes. I literally ran in and beat the vet casters down, then the healer, then the bandit then the leader. I came out of it about 1/4 health and no real stress. Farming tagmatons, it can be done on foot, it is harder then on mount but it took about 3 minutes a tag on foot, with a lengthy recovery time as they would get me down to about 20 hit points. But I could easily kill a tag in about 2 minutes from mount using MC skills with the same weapon and take no damage. Sators actually were the hardest to deal with as a MC, only because they for some reason have longer reach then a tagmaton. But they died quicker so it wasnt much of an issue, 90sec a sator.

My pure mounted mage. Same bandit camp with same mobs. It took nearly 10 minutes to clear that same camp, I had dropped to 20% mana blown through nearly 1/3 of my reagents and struggled dealing with 2 vet casters and a healer. It would have been impossible on foot. Tagmatons. Only possible on a mount as a mage, no way in hell you survive long enough to blast those down. As your highest damage spell hits a tagmaton for less than 10% of its total health. Sators can be blasted down before they get in range. So possible to farm on foot, but still easier to deal with on mount. Time to kill on the Tag was 3 minutes average per kill. And 2 minutes a Sator if you are mounted. If you are dismounted you can do it in about 45sec.

PVP situations. The Melee/MC didnt have an issue dealing with anything that he happened across. Even MMs were not a major issue. The biggest pain was MAs but that is if they are played smart and keep their distance, mages dont get that option as they cant turn while casting and it is easier to funnel them into a situation where they end up in your reach. And once a mage is on the ground its game over for most fat mages. Yet the inverse to this is the Mounted Mage, has issues dealing with MAs or other MMs and even MCs if they are played right. A MA while will struggle killing the MMs mount, will have little to no issue killing the mage on that mount. Why shoot a horse for 20s that has 300 hit points, when you can shoot the rider for 30s who has 190hit points?

The biggest issue is most players who play melee characters who are getting destroyed by mages are very much the poster child of min-max .

Dear diary i have 4 characters and i like them very much.

 

[Jatix]

If two equally sized and geared forces were to meet in battle, one with all foot builds designed to fight on foot, and one entirely mounted builds, and the foot forces were to not win, then those players are beyond trash or the people who designed their builds must be monkeys randomly slamming buttons to determine what skills they took.

What bugs me about mounted is in very small scale. If me and my friend are on foot and attack anyone who happens to be in a guild (that actually has players and isnt shit lmao), an assorted amount of mounted always shows up within minutes. All Ma's and Fat mages. If we were going to win they just fly away and heal. If we are losing we cant run because they are way faster. So it just makes a shitty engagement that makes it easy to go post about how mounted is OP.

Your other points are spot on tho.

 

[Teknique]

You can not even deny that you said buff FF in pvp, And Nurf everything els in PVP, But buff it in PVE.

"I want to make tamer play more fun and useful"
Reduce time to level, by making animal care a secondary, Allow them to rez pets BUT!!!
*- Reduced pet damage to players by 75%*
Taking away the amount of time to level would not make tamer more fun to play, Just less of a hassle. You want to make mounted faster, bc it would be more fun? How bc you would be able to do more damage as a lancer? But reducing damage pets do by 75% would be fun to the tamers?
No it would be completely useless. And dreadful, When you are leveling your pet you would consider rerolling because its not even worth it.

This would put every pet on the level of necromancy ritual pets. Completely useless and ineffective.
Why do you think Hiney said they are going to buff ritual pets in his stream yesterday? Bc they are Completely useless and ineffective. (Besieds the horses)

Mage casting with a shield is not skilled based, But It is also not skilled based to just run next to them and render the shield completely useless.
FFs cry to add shield weight to armor weight. So they did. Now My pure mage can only wear a shield that is under 2kg and some shitty rugged armor. There is no skill involved in killing a pure mage. So how do we balance that Mighty one?
Here is my thoroughly thought out system on how to balance Pure mages to make them actually worth it and viable.

First lets establish the fact that pure dex mages (Non dagger, non armor wearing, non MM only, non tamer mages) are completely unloved and forgotten about. Everyone that plays a mage, besides a select few, always go tamer, dagger mage, or "wheelchair mages". Here's why.

You can not be a Mage. You are forced into either being Tamer mage, or a Dagger mage. There is no Full mage build. You are forced into gimping your self some how or another. Going the tamer mage you have to gimp your magic load out/capabilities using up to 400points just to have a pets so you can survive. With a dagger mage its the same only worse, because you have to use attribute points to effectively use a melee weapon. Which in turn will make your mana or hp drop considerably. Also you now have to wear armor, effecting your mana regen a fuck ton, limiting your magic damage output. And the armor you get to wear is no more then 10 kgs with 50 armor training (Shit and ineffective). So your in shit armor to begin with, against a chad FF with best armor and 15%+ damage bonus. So even if you have 100 blocking with 100% parry rate they will win just off parries.
The only way to be pure full mage, is to have a group of people to play with. There is no solo mage play. A competent FF can fight off multiple people at once. A competent Mage can kill one guy before they are low of mana, then try to get away and get nothing from the fight. If the group the mage is fighting is competent the only choice is to run, and try to get away. If there is a Dex fighter good luck.
People are mad that mage damage goes through armor. But all you have to do is get a MR or put points into psy to increase your survivability. There is no skill/spell/attribute that allows mages to block physical damage. The only way is to fuck your self over and put on heavy armor. Rendering mana regen non existent and your 600+ points in mages skills are now useless.


Now lets establish what a pure Dex Mage is supposed to be able to do, Its gameplay style on paper.
Dex mages Sacrifice HP, Total mana, magic damage output and Physical resistance for speed. We are squishy as fuck and not a huge threat compared to a fat Oghmir, Sheevra, and Humans. With no more then 105int (W/O trinkets, Same as the baseline for most hybrids.) All of these Sacrifices Just for 1 skill better then the rest, Dexterity. Dexterity defined as: skill in performing tasks, especially with the hands. But it is most commonly only brought up when talking about extreme speed and accuracy. Like when talking about Marital artist for example.

The current balance in game is a complete joke. There is such a drastic sacrifice to be a dex mage, But little sacrifice to be a dex FF.
Dex FFs sacrifice Damage out put and hp. But maintain full speed for wearing heavy armor. So there is nothing viable to allow pure mages any survivability against them, The only thing previously was shields. That got changed bc of cry babys. So now Im am becoming a cry baby to make these changes stay in game, but actually balanced.

Swimming Is a good example of this. It is balanced based on your carry weight and armor equipped. The armor equipped actually counts x2 towards the weight when swimming. Even with full swimming skills your max speed is effected by carry weight. The only way to achieve full speed it to be totally naked with absolutely nothing in your inventory.
This same mechanic should be in place for foot speed. Heavy armor is not as restrictive in movement as everyone thinks it is. I know this. But it is harder and takes more energy exertion to do anything in heavy armor. We do not see this in game at all. The only thing that heavy armor does in game is take stamina regen down to 88% and that is with heavy heavy armor on. Which is a joke because there are 4 skills that reduce stamana usage, or boost stamina gain. But no effect to reduce/increase move speed. Carrying stuff on your back is the most efficient way to transport anything, and I always see people compline that little weak mages shouldn't even be allowed to equip a shield on their back. So all IRL arguments are disregarded.

With this swimming mechanic added to speed on foot. It will allow all of the pure dex mages sacrifices to not be in vain.
Dagger mages will be effected by it the most, Because they have the lowest STG in the game, making them have the lowest carry weight in the game as well (2nd to pure mages). It will barely effect Oghmirs, or Thursar, because they have insane carry weight. Dex fighters will still be quicker then them based raw dexterity skill.
The only thing it will buff would be Pure mages only. If you can even call it a buff. I would call it Actually doing what its supposed to do.
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I know this ^ is off topic, But its still on the topic of balance.

I think we agree on more stuff than we disagree. You want to make taming easy but not nerf the damage at all. In what way is that balanced? 75% might be too much but anything more than 10 damage on a steel armored target would be too much dps. This would also come with certain abilities that pets give you like an atrophy.

Absolutely I think mages need to be more solo viable. Roots and crowd control is a start on pve. How to add that to pvp I don't have any ideas on atm so I didn't address it.

And yes the balance is a joke I don't enjoy any of the classes in the game.

 

[Jatix]

Pets would be fine doing the damage they do now, if they didn't run mount speed, with infinite stam, were parriable, and attacked slower. People bitched about pets being op for MO1's entire life pretty much, and then MO2 hits and makes MO1 pets look like house cats.

 

[Kaemik]

What bugs me about mounted is in very small scale. If me and my friend are on foot and attack anyone who happens to be in a guild (that actually has players and isnt shit lmao), an assorted amount of mounted always shows up within minutes. All Ma's and Fat mages. If we were going to win they just fly away and heal. If we are losing we cant run because they are way faster. So it just makes a shitty engagement that makes it easy to go post about how mounted is OP.

Your other points are spot on tho.

True but with passenger mounts they would just dump an army on you and wipe you quickly. The ability to ride away and heal up is nice but it comes at the cost of being dramatically weaker.

Ideally the way I would like to see mounted be balanced is where it requires fairly overwhelming numbers to wipe a foot force but powerful as a supplementary force to a good food force.

I would LIKE:

20-30% mounted and the rest foot > 100% foot > 100% mounted

Reality is:

100% foot > everything

A couple very good mounted players MAY be decent if they are very good. In general a bad foot fighter is far more useful than a fairly decent mounted player.

 

[Teknique]

True but with passenger mounts they would just dump an army on you and wipe you quickly. The ability to ride away and heal up is nice but it comes at the cost of being dramatically weaker.

Ideally the way I would like to see mounted be balanced is where it requires fairly overwhelming numbers to wipe a foot force but powerful as a supplementary force to a good food force.

I would LIKE:

20-30% mounted and the rest foot > 100% foot > 100% mounted

Reality is:

100% foot > everything

A couple very good mounted players MAY be decent if they are very good. In general a bad foot fighter is far more useful than a fairly decent mounted player.

Not true, having a mounted in your backline is so disruptive to your mages that you generally have to dedicate someone to sitting with a bow out. Its a really good trade off for having a terrible shmerrick tier bagworded player disrupt a mage or keep a footfighter locked out of combat when they would just instaflop on foot otherwise.