Balancing notes for if the game was actually fun

[Emdash]

Changes:
- Added a primary skill hamstringing which gives a 30% chance to dismount on melee attack (foot only)
- taking damage while riding third speed has a 50% chance of dropping to first gear
-spears have a 100% chance of slowing mounts to first speed for 3 seconds when dealing above 25 damage
- marksmanship greatly increase chance of dismount on headshot
-removed turn penalty on mounted archery
- “lightning” now slows mounted to 2nd speed for 3 seconds
- arrows have a slight chance to dismount
- dismounted players can not remount for 3 seconds
- increased mounted speeds
- added bull horse
- added breeding (careful balance)
- added primary skill under mounted combat “knights will” greatly reduces effect of armor weight on horse speed and adds free armor weight to player (does not stack with heavy armor training)
- adjusted mounted combat animations to be smoother
- reduced magic damage that you deal while mounted by 30%
- added 1.5 seconds flat cast time to all spells while mounted
- you can longer cast with shields equipped
- npcs no longer interrupt casting
- doubled magic damage to pve npcs
- added spell “sleep” incapacitates an npc for 60 seconds damage will break the effect
- added spell “mage armor” chance to slow npcs that attack
- Reduced pet damage to players by 75%
- increased pet damage to npcs by 75%
-reduced pet dmg received from npcs by 75%
- Pets now unlock spells that the caster can use
-tames are no longer locked to lvl 50 and instead are creature specific
- pets can now be bound and cost 100 gold to resurrect


There’s probably way more I could add but that’s my first draft

peep I got u...

Some of this stuff I've suggested, too, (in slight diff forms,) so I don't hate it all. The parts I dislike are:

The dismount chances v dmg threshold (two mechanics that should not be side by side.) Too specific for what should be a more simple, over-arching dismount system.

Mounteds should get big regen in 2nd, more drain in 3rd, and faster maybe... 4th exists tho, so, I dunno. I think if you slapped on a mounted you should have a dismount roll regardless and yea I know, Jatix. haha. RNG sux esp when it lands on U, but it bears out over time. The dmg threshold was worse imo.

1.5 flat seems OP likely.

Sleep/mage armor. Complex, imo. Not really gonna save the level of time, which matters most imo. Fix clade and you don't even need to worry about mage solo farm (IMO!) Tho perhaps there should be some high phys (but w/o weak spot-ability) for them to farm.

See no reason for npcs to not interrupt casting.

Pet dmg changes are overtune and ressing pets is no good to me. WE are immortal; pets are just our tools.

I like the rest. I think mount speed/armor is a good chance. They should simply tie it to mounted charge. If 4th was a more proper, longer burst, it would work out, too. Total weight system on mounts was a big factor, too, for speed. Armor is a great variable within it, but the speeds are too close together like non elf footies, when wearing armor that is actually decent. Plus no/lite armor isn't fast enough to get away like before. It is, but it's not just like... kick it into 3rd.

Dismount needs to be longer yes, and taming needs to be a harder spec, yes. - thumbs up -

The only thing that HAS to go atm is the bound pets. Some of the rest is 'too complex, won't add,' or 'numbers too large, possible of ridic swing too high.'

But yea peace kids. COME BACK TO THE GAME. DO IT FOR THE NUBS. There are people playing this game as nubs in towns, mining and shit. Imagine how many of those guys eventually are like y'know what... fuck this game. Imagine how many would be retained if the world was poppin' and they felt like they were making a difference. WE'D BE AT THE POINT WHERE SERVER LAG WOULD BE AN ISSUE.

 

[Kaemik]

The mounted V foot dps may be worse for the mounted but thats not factoring moblilty. A sheevra is muc hweaker than a thursar. Less hp, damage bonus, stam, and cna use weaker bows / weapons due to str req's. for a whole like 20-30 speed.

Mounted go easily over 2x foot speed, while still having good damage, and not needing to worry about stamina from attacking, because they dont share stam with attackign and movement like foot players do.

This is the core of my issue with mounted. On foot, faster builds are weaker. Thats a fair tradeoff. Mounted gets to be strong and fast. IRL mounts were op too. Bu this is a game, so to me it doesnt have to obey IRL logic. Because almost nothing about this game is realistic anyway.

Mobility issue works both ways. My full-foot sheevra build can jump full height in combat mode, jump off cliffs that will kill most other footies and ALL mounts, turns on a dime and even has 100 in all swimming skills with the alvarin clade to swimming on top. It's small size also makes it able to maneuver in some places a Thursar or Kallard might struggle.

It's a slower build while sprinting in flat terrain with no obstacles in a straight line. But I would argue its mobility dramatically exceeds that of a mounted builds in a lot of very important ways. I'm basically not going to die to a 1-3 mounted opponents on that build unless I let them kill me. There are just so many ways to outmaneuver them available to me. And I've put this to the test. Even in fairly minimally featured terrain I could easily break LOS, heal myself, and even charge up offensive spells to send back my opponents way. Mounted opponents actually have to dismount to fight me on that build.

And for a slow build optimized for mounted play, they're not going to be able to engage me even then unless I choose to let them. I very seldomly find myself dying on that character without making a conscious choice to take a fight.

 

[Emdash]

Mobility issue works both ways. My full-foot sheevra build can jump full height in combat mode, jump off cliffs that will kill most other footies and ALL mounts, turns on a dime and even has 100 in all swimming skills with the alvarin clade to swimming on top. It's small size also makes it able to maneuver in some places a Thursar or Kallard might struggle.

It's a slower build while sprinting in flat terrain with no obstacles in a straight line. But I would argue its mobility dramatically exceeds that of a mounted builds in a lot of very important ways. I'm basically not going to die to a 1-3 mounted opponents on that build unless I let them kill me. There are just so many ways to outmaneuver them available to me. And I've put this to the test. Even in fairly minimally featured terrain I could easily break LOS, heal myself, and even charge up offensive spells to send back my opponents way. Mounted opponents actually have to dismount to fight me on that build.

And for a slow build optimized for mounted play, they're not going to be able to engage me even then unless I choose to let them. I very seldomly find myself dying on that character without making a conscious choice to take a fight.

The thing is you can roll like an 80 year old sheev or bulging and still be as fast as a khur.

I got a Lean Veela MA hue, as well as My Khur is pretty legit on Mounted. The potential to get some extra dex was the only reason I took khur, it might not matter on foot, but it matters on mount. I M O.

Combat jump is very overpowered when used as intended (to jump when running, during fighting etc,) it's even worse when used to bunny hop or jump out of swing reach. It would be nice to put some limitations on it like... can't swing or pull bow, you lose your spell (or have a concentration roll), if you combat jump. It's a skill with a good intention just as Naiad in beta was... when it made you INSANELY GOOD at swimming. I think they should revert. Haters gonna hate. The thing is to keep things situational, tho. Once people have meta'd a skill into every build (like Ma was) you have to curb it alil imo.

Edit: also, no combat jump with a shield on your back OOOHH.

 

[Kaemik]

The thing is you can roll like an 80 year old sheev or bulging and still be as fast as a khur.

So 1.5% faster than a Kallard? Khurites aren't really fast

But yeah I get it with the alvarin clades they still have a lot of advantages.

 

[Emdash]

So 1.5% faster than a Kallard? Khurites aren't really fast

But yeah I get it with the alvarin clades they still have a lot of advantages.

They are fit/lean esp with a dex ring. 330+ is OK. Like I said mounted... but yea they are in the bog before lean. Once you get 116 tho I fux w/ dat. Problem is that it takes forever blaaah. So much cliff jumping. I think you were a khurite once and are mad they got nerfed, right? I feel you man, but they are not bad. As fast as a khurite is combat viable and that's FAST for a bulging sheev imo. It was more saying the gifts are p trash... and khurs need more bonus for going over 110, but you can really feel it on a mount. I think 100 is a nice break point for mount, too, like it is for int, but I have no EMPIRICAL DATA.

 

[Kaemik]

They are fit/lean esp with a dex ring. 330+ is OK. Like I said mounted... but yea they are in the bog before lean. Once you get 116 tho I fux w/ dat. Problem is that it takes forever blaaah. So much cliff jumping. I think you were a khurite once and are mad they got nerfed, right? I feel you man, but they are not bad. As fast as a khurite is combat viable and that's FAST for a bulging sheev imo. It was more saying the gifts are p trash... and khurs need more bonus for going over 110, but you can really feel it on a mount. I think 100 is a nice break point for mount, too, like it is for int, but I have no EMPIRICAL DATA.

Nope. Never played a Khurite. I was the first person in the game calling them trash. I've always WANTED them to be good and they just never have been so I keep lobbying for them to do something to them. They just don't math out. I'll cut and paste my empirical data on them from a PM I sent to Henrik:

"I make builds for new players and I do a lot of math on what is good and what isn't. Khurites are the least recommendable race. Let me show you why:

First off This is 30yo Stout Khurite w/ fighter clades:
426 Combat Sprint
202 Health
24% Damage Bonus
361 Stamina

Same build, Kallard:

420 Combat Sprint 212 Health
30% Damage Bonus
361 Sprint That puts Means

Kallard is:

1.4% Slower in combat sprint
5% More Health
5% More Damage
Same stamina"

The problem with Khurites is they are the same build as Kallards. Like those differences are small. But all the meaningful difference between them favors the Kallard.

My suggesting is actually -16 CON, +8STR +8DEX for Khurites. A glass cannon physical build would be a unique role no other race is. And it would be REALLY good at mounted combat and archery. Which the lore explicitly states Khurites are. They're basically Mongolians if you read the lore.

 

[Emdash]

Nope. Never played a Khurite. I was the first person in the game calling them trash. I've always WANTED them to be good and they just never have been so I keep lobbying for them to do something to them. They just don't math out. I'll cut and paste my empirical data on them from a PM I sent to Henrik:

"I make builds for new players and I do a lot of math on what is good and what isn't. Khurites are the least recommendable race. Let me show you why:

First off This is 30yo Stout Khurite w/ fighter clades:
426 Combat Sprint
202 Health
24% Damage Bonus
361 Stamina

Same build, Kallard:

420 Combat Sprint 212 Health
30% Damage Bonus
361 Sprint That puts Means

Kallard is:

1.4% Slower in combat sprint
5% More Health
5% More Damage
Same stamina"

The problem with Khurites is they are the same build as Kallards. Like those differences are small. But all the meaningful difference between them favors the Kallard.

My suggesting is actually -16 CON, +8STR +8DEX for Khurites. A glass cannon physical build would be a unique role no other race is. And it would be REALLY good at mounted combat and archery. Which the lore explicitly states Khurites are. They're basically Mongolians if you read the lore.

They should be better. They were not trash in MO1. I thought you were vet? Myb. You can get it pretty nice lean though. 420 v 432 is something. Yeah you have 184 hp or something, OH WELL. 20% dmg, better stam, too. In the world I don't think a Kall is catching a lean Khur ever. Prol not even on the sticky. Would love to see it.

 

[Jatix]

So 1.5% faster than a Kallard? Khurites aren't really fast

But yeah I get it with the alvarin clades they still have a lot of advantages.

Which to me is a screw up on SV's part. Alv are actually fast enough to notice. Khurite V Thur V Ogh, etc. The speed gain feels pointless. Its very rare for the speed difference to do anything, and be worth any loss in other stats.

They should be better. They were not trash in MO1. I thought you were vet? Myb. You can get it pretty nice lean though. 420 v 432 is something. Yeah you have 184 hp or something, OH WELL. 20% dmg, better stam, too. In the world I don't think a Kall is catching a lean Khur ever. Prol not even on the sticky. Would love to see it.

I thought Khurite were cool in MO1 but they were still pretty bad. It was 240 speed VS Thur sid khurites 238 with more hp damage and stam.

 

[Emdash]

Which to me is a screw up on SV's part. Alv are actually fast enough to notice. Khurite V Thur V Ogh, etc. The speed gain feels pointless. Its very rare for the speed difference to do anything, and be worth any loss in other stats.


I thought Khurite were cool in MO1 but they were still pretty bad. It was 240 speed VS Thur sid khurites 238 with more hp damage and stam.

they were highly viable. Thur Khur was always stupid. They had the balance wrong. I guess Thur luvs Khur the most. They are the hottest thoo. But yeah, they were def decent enough to run. Now it's like you gotta think of something different.

 

[Kaemik]

They should be better. They were not trash in MO1. I thought you were vet? Myb. You can get it pretty nice lean though. 420 v 432 is something. Yeah you have 184 hp or something, OH WELL. 20% dmg, better stam, too. In the world I don't think a Kall is catching a lean Khur ever. Prol not even on the sticky. Would love to see it.

At this point I am an MO2 Vet. I first played MO2 in fall of 2020 and I have put quite a few hours into it. But I only really dabbled in MO1. I loved the concept but that game had so many issues I found it unplayable.

 

[Emdash]

At this point I am an MO2 Vet. I first played MO2 in fall of 2020 and I have put quite a few hours into it. But I only really dabbled in MO1. I loved the concept but that game had so many issues I found it unplayable.

tag ETERNAL. It's got issues, but they could be fixed. They just need to look at things thru a wider lens, like giving humans a lot more points so they call all be pseudo hybrids.

that's how I feel but I'm stayin off forums yakno.

 

[Hodo]

My issue is in MO MA's are good in the open and in the woods. Horses are insanely mobile and theres nothing on the ground to mess up their movement like there would be in a real forest, where the trees actually die and drop stuff. You can try to run around trees but they just fly in circles around your tree and still shoot you (in the case where you arent winning and have 0 hope of running because they can always chase). So it just makes for annoying gameplay. If Ma's attack and you are winning they ride off with 0 risk. If you are losing, GG you cant get away 95% of the time. With a few select cases of water or mountains they cant ride on.

And IRL didnt have obese mages jetting around shooting magic lmao.

And IRL if someone ran into a tree going max speed on their horse, RIP. MO2 you can slam into a rock, tree, etc and nothing happens lol. but as stated above theres a reason for this haha. Mounts would play like insane ass if Sv tried to code in more 'realistic' mount behavior.

While the part of about IRL if a horse ran into a tree... but fun fact in real life a horse wont run into a tree at full speed. I rode horses for over 20 years and I have 2 horses try and scrub me off on a tree or low limb. One successfully.... I was young and more interested in the girl behind me on the horse.... I learned that day.

It is actually easier to get a horse to dive off a cliff then it is to get them to run into a wall. They have a blind spot directly in front of their nose... it depends on the horse but it can be as little as a foot or two, to as much as much as 10ft.

Horses while are often considered stupid, they really arent. Good hunting horses and war horses were high spirited horses, very aggressive and very smart.

 

[buffalo]

I think this seems to be logical but I think it probably is unfortunately another bandaid from what was offered from mo1 as an overall system. I think it might be more helpful to understand why it is that this kind of addition would help and whether or not there's just an underlying logic that leads to the type of changes that essentially just underline what mo1 did have great mounted war without capsizing all footies and mages ften times the changes have unintended side effects and I think everyone is pretty much sea sick from those so. I was just speaking with Wodanaz and he relayed to me that in mo1 for instance getting hit really hard would knock a horse back into second from third with a very hard hit. Turn cap being a requirement also is another tip to the point that it's a referral to mo1 having a better reasoning.

 

[Albanjo Dravae]

Mounted should never be balanced against foot. It is like trying to balance a M1A2 Abrams vs a man with a rifle. You dont. You balance mounteds against mounteds and footies against footies.

And lets just make 2 servers, only mounted people server and only foot server, everyone is happy no balance required.

 

[buffalo]

And lets just make 2 servers, only mounted people server and only foot server, everyone is happy no balance required.

Your argument would be a successful reduction to absurdity if it was an objectively discernable truth that a perfect sided solution was available. If the next best thing is all that's possible then you cause the worse thing of the runaway imbalance until you get something of lesser quality. I have not seen an improvement to the overall structure of the whole game by the changes to mounted in mo. having a starting point seems incredibly rational.

 

[Jatix]

I have not seen an improvement to the overall structure of the whole game by the changes to mounted in mo. having a starting point seems incredibly rational.

Its simple. Remove mounted, shrink the world so its not needed. Bam no complaining about how dumb mounted is. Combat would be more balanced across the board.

 

[Albanjo Dravae]

Your argument would be a successful reduction to absurdity if it was an objectively discernable truth that a perfect sided solution was available. If the next best thing is all that's possible then you cause the worse thing of the runaway imbalance until you get something of lesser quality. I have not seen an improvement to the overall structure of the whole game by the changes to mounted in mo. having a starting point seems incredibly rational.

I was trolling that dude that said "can't balance foots vs mounteds and can only balance mounteds vs mounteds and foot vs foot", which Is a really demented shit to say lol

 

[buffalo]

Its simple. Remove mounted, shrink the world so its not needed. Bam no complaining about how dumb mounted is. Combat would be more balanced across the board.

Like I said...having an operating starting point is pretty useful all around