Australian and other high pinger attacks delayed

[cerqo]

If you have played this game for a decent amount of time, it's clear that high-ping players are at a MASSIVE disadvantage, no matter what kind of cope SV is trying to push.

Regardless, there's one glaring weird issue I have with the combat for high-ping players after playing against high pingers and watching high-pingers play cause I've played with a lot of Australians and some Asian people as well.

When a high-ping player charges and releases a hit on you. The damage very often comes in 1-3 seconds late, after the animation finishes. Now, the obvious main question is. Why the fuck does the damage come in late, when the server somehow knows when to START the animation? How does the server receive the information and knows when to START the swing animation, but for some reason, there is a disconnect before the damage numbers come in? Clearly, the server is getting the needed information to know when the attack should start, so why is the damage delayed?

If this gets fixed, I believe high ping players would have 100x better experience in the combat in the game.

 

[Hodo]

Unfortunately you are preaching to the choir here and as far as SV is concerned this is like yelling at Hellen Keller. They dont want to listen. I and many others suggested the second continent being hosted in another region like North American West Coast or even Mountain region... where you have a pretty decent ping for PacRim players and for the Americas.

 

[Jackdstripper]

I and many others suggested the second continent being hosted in another region like North American West Coast or even Mountain region...

This.

Nothing else will ever fix this issue, which has been around since the beginning of MO1. We ( non europeans) have been asking for regional servers for over 10 years. But SV isnt interested. Henrik's dream is one server for all and nothing else will do. They stubburnly refuse to see the light, or even acknowledge that its a problem.

This is one of the main reasons why this game has remained so small. Many people have tried and have liked the concept. However, when they realize how shitty the de-sync is, and that there is no fix, they all leave. Nobody plays a game where you are constantly handicapped because you dont live next to the server. Its laughable.

 

[Hodo]

This.

Nothing else will ever fix this issue, which has been around since the beginning of MO1. We ( non europeans) have been asking for regional servers for over 10 years. But SV isnt interested. Henrik's dream is one server for all and nothing else will do. They stubburnly refuse to see the light, or even acknowledge that its a problem.

This is one of the main reasons why this game has remained so small. Many people have tried and have liked the concept. However, when they realize how shitty the de-sync is, and that there is no fix, they all leave. Nobody plays a game where you are constantly handicapped because you dont live next to the server. Its laughable.

Funny thing is Albion Online has 1 server. It is hosted in the USA. And even that game has ping issues with people trying to connect from Asia, or Eastern Europe. There are some laws you cant break. Physics says so. No matter how much we dream we can not create a communications system that is faster then the speed of light. And that is the max speed of communications currently. So this means no matter how much of a "ping regulation" system you put in, or a normalization system in the game there will always be issues with people on the opposite side of the world from the server. So why not have 2 servers if not 3 in regions that will allow people to play in areas were their ping is less of an issue.

 

[Deathstrik3]

There are actually ways to make this work regardless of distance, it just takes good netcode. More specifically a good rollback netcode. If done properly, it can make players in Australia and the USA feel like they are playing in the same room. A few games have released in the last few years with this type of netcode, and it allowed for tournaments to be held fairly during the height of the pandemic, and those are fighting games where the latency difference is IMO even more of an issue than it will ever be in MO2. Obviously the exact same netcode won't work here, and they would need someone who specializes in making that type of netcode to make something for MO2, but it is possible, and if they are going to stick with a single server it is a necessity.

 

[Jackdstripper]

There are actually ways to make this work regardless of distance, it just takes good netcode. More specifically a good rollback netcode. If done properly, it can make players in Australia and the USA feel like they are playing in the same room. A few games have released in the last few years with this type of netcode, and it allowed for tournaments to be held fairly during the height of the pandemic, and those are fighting games where the latency difference is IMO even more of an issue than it will ever be in MO2. Obviously the exact same netcode won't work here, and they would need someone who specializes in making that type of netcode to make something for MO2, but it is possible, and if they are going to stick with a single server it is a necessity.

I could see this with a lobby style arena type game, that has a static map and a limited amount of players.

Not with an mmo like MO with possibly thousands of players on a huge map. That is completely unrealistic, at least for today’s technology.

 

[Jatix]

My only issue with a new continent with a different server is just that its a new continent. Myrland is already 4x+ too big for the current player base lol. They needed to realize the game wouldnt have 10k average and make the continents smaller, so that they can then make more continents to have diff servers.

but I agree that its by far the best way to have different servers for people who cant handle the bad connection.

To me 95% of fights arnt competative anyway so the pings really isnt that big. If the game was a sweaty duel simulator then it would be different.

 

[cerqo]

My only issue with a new continent with a different server is just that its a new continent. Myrland is already 4x+ too big for the current player base lol. They needed to realize the game wouldnt have 10k average and make the continents smaller, so that they can then make more continents to have diff servers.

but I agree that its by far the best way to have different servers for people who cant handle the bad connection.

To me 95% of fights arnt competative anyway so the pings really isnt that big. If the game was a sweaty duel simulator then it would be different.

New continent is the biggest fucking meme shit idea ever, and SV even considering making a new continent just shows how detached from reality they are.

I really hope to god they are not wasting dev time making a second continent when as everyone knows, the current continent is far too large, empty and dead.

 

[finegamingconnoisseur]

Another Australian player here. ExitLag helped a lot with the ping (speaking for myself), I went from 375+ to 200ms and now everything is smooth and no warping.

Yeah it aren't great that the server is all the way in London instead of the US.

 

[Dracu]

Sounds like the animation start and calculation take more communications into account aka more communication between client and server for the dmg calc? No idea how it works just a guess... Valid question though... I would like to know aswell

 

[Tzone]

Henrik needs to stop telling people that start link will make the game better for high pingers when they are just being kicked if they are AUS and use starlink

 

[Hodo]

Henrik needs to stop telling people that start link will make the game better for high pingers when they are just being kicked if they are AUS and use starlink

Even StarLink is stuck with the laws of physics.

A signal sent from the ground to a Starlink satellite network, around the world and back down to London would in perfect conditions at the speed of light with zero delays for processing could be fast... 50-60ms fast. BUT we know that wont happen, you have delays due to processing speeds and transmission delays. So your ping would improve from 300ms to 150-250ms. Or about where it is now.

Light only moves so fast.

 

[Triddle]

It's a shame. I suspect this game would be very popular in Oceania/Asia, but it's hard to get past the 200-400ms latency. Haven't been able to get mine below 260ms and combat just feels like you're swinging your sword through mud. Couldn't convince any of my friends to even give it a go despite their clear interest in the game, and I don't think I'll persevere much longer either.

 

[wyqydsyq]

When a high-ping player charges and releases a hit on you. The damage very often comes in 1-3 seconds late, after the animation finishes. Now, the obvious main question is. Why the fuck does the damage come in late, when the server somehow knows when to START the animation?

As an Aussie this is really the biggest issue for ping IMO. Having to parry early / from further distance is something you can adjust to. But low ping players getting parries after you clearly landed the hit on them on everyone's screen because the low ping player parried in the window after animation connects but before damage is calculated feelsbadman.

As you said the server is already transmitting the data for the animation seemingly fine, it shouldn't be hard to add some predictive interpolation here and apply the damage registration based on when the swing should hit (was released + how long the animation should take), rather than purely based on clients sending hit packet resulting in a race condition between the high ping player's packets saying they hit vs the low ping players packets saying they parried.

To give SV some credit though, for EU only server I get 250-260ms ping which is honestly incredible considering in most other games if I play on US servers I get 220-240ms ping and 300ms+ on EU servers. They just need to work on better interpolation for hit calculations to make damage application more consistent.

 

[wyqydsyq]

Even StarLink is stuck with the laws of physics.

A signal sent from the ground to a Starlink satellite network, around the world and back down to London would in perfect conditions at the speed of light with zero delays for processing could be fast... 50-60ms fast. BUT we know that wont happen, you have delays due to processing speeds and transmission delays. So your ping would improve from 300ms to 150-250ms. Or about where it is now.

Light only moves so fast.

The main issue with StarLink that will prevent it from ever being good for gaming IMO is the uncontrollable factors of satellite communications. You might get low ping but people will be rubberbanding everywhere as packets get lost or delayed due to atmospheric and cosmic interference, timing differences (satellites are constantly updating their clocks to account for drift) etc

Australia already has decent fibre optic cable coverage in most population centres which you're far better off using than StarLink. Light isn't going to magically travel faster or more reliably by beaming it ~500 kilometres up into the atmosphere, relaying it around the world then beaming it back down through the sky another ~500 kilometres.

 

[Murder]

Not sure what is the point of handicapping high ping players who already get hit through blocks, and making their attacks delayed as well. If we cant play a defensive playstyle then at least let us play aggresively on even grounds. But right now we just suck at everything melee. If only the magic system in this game wasn't complete dogshit I'd be fine playing a mage, but your relayed to being a heal bot unless your a fat mage riding on a mount (also boring).

 

[Hodo]

The main issue with StarLink that will prevent it from ever being good for gaming IMO is the uncontrollable factors of satellite communications. You might get low ping but people will be rubberbanding everywhere as packets get lost or delayed due to atmospheric and cosmic interference, timing differences (satellites are constantly updating their clocks to account for drift) etc

Australia already has decent fibre optic cable coverage in most population centres which you're far better off using than StarLink. Light isn't going to magically travel faster or more reliably by beaming it ~500 kilometres up into the atmosphere, relaying it around the world then beaming it back down through the sky another ~500 kilometres.

Yes this is true. I wasnt going to go into variables like packet loss.. because techincally every ISP can have serious issues with this. I was just overly simplifying the system. On paper StarLink maybe faster, but as you said those issues and other unforeseen issues.

 

[Aeon]

This might sound counterintuitive, but is performance using Geforce NOW as an AUS player using an EU server in GN better? In theory the traffic from the AUS PC to GN servers is streamlined to capture just the click information, it's using different ports than the MO2 client and isn't sending/receiving everything like the client. The traffic for the click itself would be from a Euro server to MO2 server (once reduced traffic was already received from AUS). It's free so probably worth a shot if what OP says is correct

 

[actetto]

When a high-ping player charges and releases a hit on you. The damage very often comes in 1-3 seconds late, after the animation finishes. Now, the obvious main question is. Why the fuck does the damage come in late, when the server somehow knows when to START the animation? How does the server receive the information and knows when to START the swing animation, but for some reason, there is a disconnect before the damage numbers come in? Clearly, the server is getting the needed information to know when the attack should start, so why is the damage delayed?

There's more than one way to do it, but:

Basically, when the Aussie makes contact on his client, he sends a "hit" message to the server with some information. The server checks if the struck player was parrying or not and then sends the "you got hit" message to the player who got hit. So basically the minimum amount of time after the Aussie hits on you his game, before you get hit on your game is: Aussie ping to server + your ping to server.

If the attack was something like a projectile "fireball" or an "animation locked" melee attack like in a fighting game or BDO or something. The server could simulate the attack and not rely on the clients to know whether they hit each other or not. Particularly in the case of MO's melee this is extra impossible because the attack can be moved any way you wish for the entire duration of the attack so the server knowing "when the attack started" doesn't help it know when or if the attack will hit.

Basically, as other people have mentioned in the thread the issue is literally not fixable and could only be helped by changing the combat system to be something less reliant on speed.