Hello, like most of you I am a pvp enthusiast looking for the next thrill. Also a fighting game player, chess player and fencer.
I briefly played Mortal Online 1 after hearing how unique it was and much high praise. I thought the game was brilliant but deeply flawed, and ultimately was not the game for me, but I yearned for a similar game, but with better execution, which is why I was elated to see that it was getting a sequel. I’m here to give the perspective of an outsider, but one who is probably right in the target audience of the game.
It’s my belief that this game’s combat, in its current form, is too rudimentary to succeed. I see a game whose core mechanics do not provide enough of a way to create meaningful openings, resulting in players coming up with their own way to get around the limitations imposed by the mechanics, in ways that are messy, ugly and unintuitive. This may suffice for Mortal vets, but it will likely spell doom for prospective new players.
In my opinion, the game has the following flaws:
-Attacking mechanics are weak and players must hide their attacks with movement jank
-Damage is very low, and there is no mechanical way to “press your advantage” resulting in an exceedingly high number of openings required to kill
-The above is also exacerbated by effective means of disengaging from combat and healing
-Magic that provides no visual visual feedback besides “someone is suddenly on fire”
-This is more of an aesthetic gripe, but it still contributes heavily to the experience your game provides, but attacks “feel” weak and small. Swords smacking lamely on armor and stopping, the parries just being two sticks smacking together. These do not adequately communicate the satisfaction of landing a hit or parrying a sword coming at you.
Games in which melee combat is the central focus of the game need a few things to succeed. Strong offense, fluidity and stickiness. This game appears lacking in all of those.
I realize that latency is a big issue that has really held back the implementation of a good combat system.
Here are a few ideas to consider:
-The first few frames of a block will “parry” your opponent, costing no stamina and putting them into a very brief recovery state where they can only move and block, giving you time to transition into offense
-After the first few frames of holding a block, you will enter into a “held guard” state. In this state, an attack hitting your guard will drain a sizeable amount of stamina and will not rebound, allowing your opponent to follow up with more attacks.
-Attacks cost significantly less stamina
These mechanics build the groundwork for a system that emphasizes offense. It requires a defending player to time a block well in order to shift from a defending state to an attacking state. It also means that attacks can be delayed in order to hit a weaker guard and begin building a stamina advantage.
-A quick, short range, stunning attack like a haft butt, pommel bash, shield bash or punch that can be guarded from any direction, rebounds off of guards, and do not affect opponents mid swing, but staggers and drains stamina from people who are holding an attack
This would be implemented as a quick counterattack that serves as a callout against delayed attacks, but that will lose to swings
-Once out of stamina, guarding an attack will batter your weapon arm out of the way, briefly staggering you. Getting hit will stagger you. Getting hit while moving away from your opponent will knock you down.
This serves as the basis for aggression. Land hits on your opponent’s “held guard,” enabling you to eventually batter them, stagger them or knock them down.
-Disable sprinting for 5-10 seconds after each attack or block
-A stepping lunge that covers a large distance quickly (faster than a sprint), but if parried, briefly staggers you and drains a large amount of stamina
Two mechanics that serve to make combat more sticky and prevent long chase scenes
-A 15-25% increase in damage
-Taking damage imposes increasing reductions to max stamina
-First aid can only be done while standing still
-Healing spells restore health, but not max stamina
These changes serve to buff attrition and remove “back off and heal and no harm done” as a strategy, meaning that every attack landed has a permanent effect on the outcome of a battle.
Anyway, its food for thought. There are any number of other changes that would suffice, these are just examples to get the juices flowing on what kinds of things the game is missing. It won’t be enough to just “remove spinning” or “change guard angles” without true, solid structure in the combat system to replace it. Some people will probably be like “you don’t know the game, these changes suck.” And it’s probably true, but the purpose of this thread isn’t to tell people how the game needs to change, but to tell people that it needs to change and to give examples of possible paths.
Cheers and I hope the game owns on release.
I briefly played Mortal Online 1 after hearing how unique it was and much high praise. I thought the game was brilliant but deeply flawed, and ultimately was not the game for me, but I yearned for a similar game, but with better execution, which is why I was elated to see that it was getting a sequel. I’m here to give the perspective of an outsider, but one who is probably right in the target audience of the game.
It’s my belief that this game’s combat, in its current form, is too rudimentary to succeed. I see a game whose core mechanics do not provide enough of a way to create meaningful openings, resulting in players coming up with their own way to get around the limitations imposed by the mechanics, in ways that are messy, ugly and unintuitive. This may suffice for Mortal vets, but it will likely spell doom for prospective new players.
In my opinion, the game has the following flaws:
-Attacking mechanics are weak and players must hide their attacks with movement jank
-Damage is very low, and there is no mechanical way to “press your advantage” resulting in an exceedingly high number of openings required to kill
-The above is also exacerbated by effective means of disengaging from combat and healing
-Magic that provides no visual visual feedback besides “someone is suddenly on fire”
-This is more of an aesthetic gripe, but it still contributes heavily to the experience your game provides, but attacks “feel” weak and small. Swords smacking lamely on armor and stopping, the parries just being two sticks smacking together. These do not adequately communicate the satisfaction of landing a hit or parrying a sword coming at you.
Games in which melee combat is the central focus of the game need a few things to succeed. Strong offense, fluidity and stickiness. This game appears lacking in all of those.
I realize that latency is a big issue that has really held back the implementation of a good combat system.
Here are a few ideas to consider:
-The first few frames of a block will “parry” your opponent, costing no stamina and putting them into a very brief recovery state where they can only move and block, giving you time to transition into offense
-After the first few frames of holding a block, you will enter into a “held guard” state. In this state, an attack hitting your guard will drain a sizeable amount of stamina and will not rebound, allowing your opponent to follow up with more attacks.
-Attacks cost significantly less stamina
These mechanics build the groundwork for a system that emphasizes offense. It requires a defending player to time a block well in order to shift from a defending state to an attacking state. It also means that attacks can be delayed in order to hit a weaker guard and begin building a stamina advantage.
-A quick, short range, stunning attack like a haft butt, pommel bash, shield bash or punch that can be guarded from any direction, rebounds off of guards, and do not affect opponents mid swing, but staggers and drains stamina from people who are holding an attack
This would be implemented as a quick counterattack that serves as a callout against delayed attacks, but that will lose to swings
-Once out of stamina, guarding an attack will batter your weapon arm out of the way, briefly staggering you. Getting hit will stagger you. Getting hit while moving away from your opponent will knock you down.
This serves as the basis for aggression. Land hits on your opponent’s “held guard,” enabling you to eventually batter them, stagger them or knock them down.
-Disable sprinting for 5-10 seconds after each attack or block
-A stepping lunge that covers a large distance quickly (faster than a sprint), but if parried, briefly staggers you and drains a large amount of stamina
Two mechanics that serve to make combat more sticky and prevent long chase scenes
-A 15-25% increase in damage
-Taking damage imposes increasing reductions to max stamina
-First aid can only be done while standing still
-Healing spells restore health, but not max stamina
These changes serve to buff attrition and remove “back off and heal and no harm done” as a strategy, meaning that every attack landed has a permanent effect on the outcome of a battle.
Anyway, its food for thought. There are any number of other changes that would suffice, these are just examples to get the juices flowing on what kinds of things the game is missing. It won’t be enough to just “remove spinning” or “change guard angles” without true, solid structure in the combat system to replace it. Some people will probably be like “you don’t know the game, these changes suck.” And it’s probably true, but the purpose of this thread isn’t to tell people how the game needs to change, but to tell people that it needs to change and to give examples of possible paths.
Cheers and I hope the game owns on release.
