Aku and Rolufes document of griefing, law system and faction pvp.

[Rolufe]

Here is a document me(member of ID) and Aku(Leader of RPK!) wrote down together.

We did a short podcast on bratwires channel but it only really scratched the surface of this.

I showed this to Henrik and he sad they had planed something similar. So far i havnt seen much move in this direction and release is around the corner.

If you dont feel like reading trough the whole thing.
Here is some of the key points.

-The lawful area only to exist around guards. This balances the pvp between ARPK and RPK. No special perks of being RPKer anymore. Some adjustments to the AI would need to be made in case people are shooting from outside into the guards area of law, so they can hunt them down.

-Groups of guards patrolling between and around towns and small outposts(watch towers). Mounted guards would also be useful specially for the Tindremic Empire and Khurite Empire. This fills out the world and makes it feel like you are in a empire. Limits the ability for people to murder everyone at the gate like Fab, Tindrem and MK. Moves PVP away from newbie griefing and more into proper pvp out in the field.. You could still make it past patrols but you need to really watch out, specially if your a solo RPKer/horse griefer.

-Removal of murdercounts since its a tool to lock people out from their bank locations no matter if they are RPK/ARPK/non-RPK

- 1 murder within the range of a guard puts you directly -100 rep with that faction. Only way to do this is by taking criminal actions off and intentionally murder someone.

Feel free to read the rest in the document it also goes more into factions

Meat on the bones

Summary This is an Idé made by Aku and Rolufe. Designed to fix a number of problems within MO2 using limited resources but with a big effect on a few lingering problems such as griefing, lack of faction presence, mechanics pushing players to go red etc. Faction system Faction system uses existin...

docs.google.com

.

The negatives is just what we found while writing this. If you guys find any more please just contact me or Aku. Thoughts and improvements are also welcome.

 

[Rorry]

-100 rep for killing 1 person? Guards often go far beyond where they are supposed to.

 

[Rolufe]

-100 rep for killing 1 person? Guards often go far beyond where they are supposed to.

You only need to turn off criminal actions and your immune to the rep loss, same as now. You can murder people all over the world as long as the guards dont see you doing it.

 

[SilentPony]

Overall a good suggestion. However, it needs some clarification and I find some points controversial.

Patrolling guards in and between factions towns.
Enemy factions players killed on sight.

Why? I don't want to fight NPCs outside of maybe animals. Especially if those NPC fights turn out to be tough. Actually, where is the interesting hunting with tracking blood trails that was promised to me by the tutorial? Hunting is pure combat currently and does not feel natural at all.

Keep owning guilds will decide if their territory is lawful or lawless.

I hope this territory is only limited to their "city" area. Otherwise, it will spawn another convoluted system, where you can suddenly get -100 rep out of nowhere. Which faction will those keep guards give -rep to?

Makes it more interesting to be a criminal as you need to evade the guard patrols.
Makes factions feel like they exist and have more of an impact on the world and lore. Due to larger guard presence.
Creates more PVP and makes it more worthy PVP.

I don't want to play an NPC game. Themeparks have the artificial "presence" of factions and stuff. Is that where you want the game to go? If the players do not fight for the faction, the faction should not feel like it exists. Because it really doesn't. And I don't see how that creates more PvP or how fighting NPCs instead of players makes it better.

Factionless players are blue to everyone but can access all towns if they don't go negative rep with X faction. Ideal for merchants and non-pvpers.

It's another form of consensual PvP flagging. Unless, of course, they also turn local grey outside of towns. But what is the blue status for then? It will not matter anywhere, since guards will kill you if you are of a different faction in their city and outside of cities you are always grey. It simply limits the ability of anyone with a faction allegiance active in PvP to trade between cities. I guess it's not that big of a deal for most people, but why?

Does not create artificial safe zones.

What are the guarded areas then? Either the guards are weak enough that they can be killed and then they are useless against an organized force, or they are strong enough to make that area safe.

 

[[CTX] Contractor]

Hard pass.

 

[Albanjo Dravae]

Here is a document me(member of ID) and Aku(Leader of RPK!) wrote down together.

We did a short podcast on bratwires channel but it only really scratched the surface of this.

I showed this to Henrik and he sad they had planed something similar. So far i havnt seen much move in this direction and release is around the corner.

If you dont feel like reading trough the whole thing.
Here is some of the key points.

-The lawful area only to exist around guards. This balances the pvp between ARPK and RPK. No special perks of being RPKer anymore. Some adjustments to the AI would need to be made in case people are shooting from outside into the guards area of law, so they can hunt them down.

-Groups of guards patrolling between and around towns and small outposts(watch towers). Mounted guards would also be useful specially for the Tindremic Empire and Khurite Empire. This fills out the world and makes it feel like you are in a empire. Limits the ability for people to murder everyone at the gate like Fab, Tindrem and MK. Moves PVP away from newbie griefing and more into proper pvp out in the field.. You could still make it past patrols but you need to really watch out, specially if your a solo RPKer/horse griefer.

-Removal of murdercounts since its a tool to lock people out from their bank locations no matter if they are RPK/ARPK/non-RPK

- 1 murder within the range of a guard puts you directly -100 rep with that faction. Only way to do this is by taking criminal actions off and intentionally murder someone.

Feel free to read the rest in the document it also goes more into factions

Meat on the bones

Summary This is an Idé made by Aku and Rolufe. Designed to fix a number of problems within MO2 using limited resources but with a big effect on a few lingering problems such as griefing, lack of faction presence, mechanics pushing players to go red etc. Faction system Faction system uses existin...

docs.google.com

.

The negatives is just what we found while writing this. If you guys find any more please just contact me or Aku. Thoughts and improvements are also welcome.

We as a community should be so thankfull of these bright minds brainstorming these personal opinions to Henrik since he doesn't read the forums, ID and RPK the 2 sides of a coin made of dog poop.

I definitely don't like this, overloading the game with arbitrary ideas when there are a world of solutions to cause and consequences, risk/rewards. I'd like to break this down point by point.


Faction system

So joining a faction would give negative rep to "enemy" factions, meaning what? Doesn't make any sense to sign up into a faction and get nothing but a negative outcome from it, is there any reason besides the arbitrary restriction? Bad idea.

Lawless territory, which should be everything outside the guarded towns should be free game, no local grey, no red shit, no nothing. The most idiotic feature on standing when blue ressing in a blue priest and giving a standing loss. We can "understand" that mechanic is a placeholder but the question is what to replace it with.

The way to report a murderer should be for a player to witness the situation and report it in town. Alive players should be rewarded with justice and not the dead ones. Give people a purpose to work for their town/faction, a reason to stay alive instead of giving up to die and ress to give a standing loss.

Cosmetics is something for another argument and completly trivial considering the current lack of design in a much fundamental level.


Faction territory control

There should be patrolling guards to a certain extent, theres absolutly no reason to over populate the world with guards. Do i even have to explain why?
Negative with a faction gets you killed yes, why not.

Faction law should extend to the towns domain and the sight of guards, nothing else.
Im not precisely against the -100 rep when a guard witnesses a murder, aslong you understand that mechanic will push people to become an outcast (negative standing) -1 standing to all factions? Why if the crime commited happened in one particular place concerning 1 particular faction whats the reason to give even more penalty.

Not against protecting the very immediate features around town, such as GY and pigs cuz players should get certain degree of safety.


Keep Owners

Your ideas about overloading the world with extra-diegetic arbitrary mechanics about controlling people's actions in a MMORPG sandbox makes me wanna barf.
Territory control is another chapter of the story here. Then again everything thats outside the sight of towns or alive players should be free game, idk what you mean about making a territory lawless or lawful.


Perks

I can understand that IF theres camps that are under the law of a keep, the owners could decide if the actual camp would be guarded or not and to be affiliated with a faction or not.

Rep loss should only occur diegetically in situ. Crimes to only be reported by alive players in towns or crimes witnessed by guards. Gotta make people protagonists of their fate and not to rely in themepark restrictions.

It would be cool to more guarded and un-guarded posts around nave? Yeah definitely, i wouldn't overload the world with them either. Specially not even consider to make something like protected roads and shit like that.

I don't believe in a larger guard presence specially when its justified by the "lore" if thats the argument we are on the wrong track right here.

Strong NO to creating "mid-low security areas between towns" lets be honests here, people follow roads despite the map being absolutly massive the chances you getting jumped offroad lowers depending on how smart you are for travelling, encourage people to think instead of adding safe zones.

I don't see enough reasons to why belong to a faction before and after i read this document.

Yeah i can understand that if people were in the same faction this faction would penalize the criminal actions within the faction. Meaning that yeah if you grief someone thats on your side you will get affected, why not.

I don't like having to open settings and turn on and off criminal actions to be cool with guards, this shit is wrong. The outcome of your actions should determine the consequences. Strong NO to that shit.

Roaming guards... Guess only if they drop good shit.


Negatives

"Players who don't want to PVP outside of guarded areas can no longer get payback through murder counts."

Make it simple, negative standing affects criminal status. If you are within the area of a town and you are negative standing u can't go blue till you leave. This gives the blue people that live in a city the chance to not get reported.

Then again, the way for players to actually report shit could be to witness and make it to town ALIVE.



Idk, im not particularly happy with these suggestions. I think they are less than half baked, do they serve as interrogants on how to keep going? Yeah why not, but i'd not vouch for these ideas at all.

BTW i belive in the idea of giving players the tools to do things instead of mechanics that restrict and punish actions automatically. Can we not get another steam mmorpg replica suggestion.

 

[ElPerro]

Only good change here would be grey zones outside town areas....

Patrolling mounted guards? Are you crazy? I dont want to play a pve game, or have npc ruin pvp fights.

-100 rep loss, yeah lets make everyone a mass murderer with any tiny mistake. This will surely stop people from murdering since they have nothing to lose now

Proper pvp out in the field = 100% mounted fights.

Hard pass.

 

[Eldrath]

Certainly better than the half cooked mess that they´ve created. I don´t see why the corrupt guards of the empire should have any tolerance for killing their sheep.

I showed this to Henrik and he sad they had planed something similar.

This made me chuckle. I wonder what kept them from implementing something like this (what a lot of players have been lobbying for) instead of what we have.

 

[Rolufe]

Overall a good suggestion. However, it needs some clarification and I find some points controversial.

Why? I don't want to fight NPCs outside of maybe animals. Especially if those NPC fights turn out to be tough. Actually, where is the interesting hunting with tracking blood trails that was promised to me by the tutorial? Hunting is pure combat currently and does not feel natural at all.

The reason for the patrols is to make it so not everyone trying to leave the town is forced into the one chokepoint of RPKers slaughtering everyone so, everyone ends up leaving the game like MO1. It also adds life to the game having more "people". Empires would seem more like empires and not like the local gang, to afraid to maintain their own territory.

I hope this territory is only limited to their "city" area. Otherwise, it will spawn another convoluted system, where you can suddenly get -100 rep out of nowhere. Which faction will those keep guards give -rep to?

You would only be able to lose rep within vision and hearing range of a guard and to the guards faction. This made the most sense since its already in game. except that the law system is currently global instead of locked to the guards vision and hearing(current aggro system).

I have thought of the scenario where you are fighting someone and a patrol roles up on you. Basically if both got criminal actions off, the first one hitting the other from that one of them are in range of the guard, would become criminal just like it is now. But if both got criminal actions off no one would go criminal and no one would would damage the other. I guess if you dont consider where you are at the time or dont have any awareness around you. You could be unlucky but only if you turned criminal actions off. Same as now.

I don't want to play an NPC game. Themeparks have the artificial "presence" of factions and stuff. Is that where you want the game to go? If the players do not fight for the faction, the faction should not feel like it exists. Because it really doesn't. And I don't see how that creates more PvP or how fighting NPCs instead of players makes it better.

I agree with you but we already got NPC towns and factions in the game so either remove all lore or make it properly. Since SV want more than just PVPers in the game to make it survive. It has to go with making a more interesting world with more things than just pvp.

Guards are there create a mid/low sec around towns to enable players to leave towns in more location than just the gate. This was one of the key points on MO1 steam release. players spawned in Tindrem or MK and had few ways to get out of town. Always RPK groups waiting to kill them in the chokepoints. Intention isnt to make you fight NPCs, its to enable non-pvpers and potential pvpers to get around and have fun in the game so you got more players to kill later on, that can fight back. In short, more worthy pvp. Like many here say they want. You only get that pvp if people are allowed to get into the game in the first place, so they can be a threat.

It's another form of consensual PvP flagging. Unless, of course, they also turn local grey outside of towns. But what is the blue status for then? It will not matter anywhere, since guards will kill you if you are of a different faction in their city and outside of cities you are always grey. It simply limits the ability of anyone with a faction allegiance active in PvP to trade between cities. I guess it's not that big of a deal for most people, but why?

Yes the faction system would be some form of consensual pvp. Since SV havnt come out with anything about it yet other than that its coming, we made this to help them on the way. We want people to question it, so it can then be improved.

What are the guarded areas then? Either the guards are weak enough that they can be killed and then they are useless against an organized force, or they are strong enough to make that area safe.

I always had the idea guards would be equal to a player and if possible exactly like a player having different combat skill and working together like a professional army like they intended to be in the lore. Clearly SVs AI is far from it atm but its improving. I dont like that guards hit harder or have more hp than is possible for players. Like the Lictors teleporting hit for 140-220 magic damage that you cant have any protection against. But its what SV deemed needed to maintain some form of protection for now.

Hope this answered your questions.

Only good change here would be grey zones outside town areas....

Patrolling mounted guards? Are you crazy? I dont want to play a pve game, or have npc ruin pvp fights.

-100 rep loss, yeah lets make everyone a mass murderer with any tiny mistake. This will surely stop people from murdering since they have nothing to lose now

Proper pvp out in the field = 100% mounted fights.

Hard pass.

The mounted patrols would still only be close around towns. plenty of space in-between, you would still have 90% of the map guard less.

If you killed someone in range to a guard. Keep in mind you would not be able to do this unintentionally since you need to turn on criminal actions and kill them not just damage.

I think the last bit there is more about the lack of tactics and minimum number to achieve those tactics and the problems with mounted dont slow down uphill, EQ dont dissmount etc. More people are also aiming to be mounted due to transporting and such.




Im so tired now i think i need to come up with a better way to answer similar questions

 

[Tzone]

I do like the idea of some guard camps out in the wild as a place for blue players to run too. But they should be attackable by players too. Such as the reverse of a bandit camp. I see that they have guards on the road in meduli kinda going toward tindrem. Perhaps a small patrol on those roads to make it kinda like a lawfull territory.

The -100 rep is too harsh. Crime systems are not fair as there is context that will not ever be understood by any in game system. So -100 rep if we could agree as a rightful punishment for a person who purposefully attacked unprovoked a passing player was fair and just. You have the problem of a person attacking first a group of people that wanted to kill him and winning. You have to keep the punishment for murder not too high so when people who were justified in their self defense get flagged as a murderer they are not to severely punished.

Like what people have said that guard go outside of where they are supposed to, I have seen guards agro from half way between fab bridge and fab a person in the graveyard. So far away that it leashes 10 feet walking in that direction and at a distance their name does not pop up. Its another thing that shows too high risk in punishing the wrong players.

 

[Evelyn]

No guards outside of cities. This has to be the worst collection of anti PvP ideas I've ever seen.

 

[foe]

No thank you but I would like no rep loss in lawless areas.

 

[Emdash]

Yo, in all seriousness, someone who poured money into SV do me a solid. Let me write something and show it to Henrik. haha. SHIT. If I knew it was going to be actually taken in and considered by DA MAN HIMSELF, I would put tremendous thought into it. Even if I could only do it once. It makes me v sad as a forum nobody who is constantly spamming (sometimes maybe bad, maybe not!) ideas that I cannot have a direct pipe line ever.

I'm gonna read the doc, but from the bullet points, it doesn't sound like something I'd cosign. Let me READ.

Edit: my impressions: SHOW THEM TO HENRIK!!!

I was expecting a long document.

The faction system is ok, but I dunno if it works. Gloria Victis has this. Unfortunately, it does take away inter-factional disputes. I imagine more disputes happen among close people than in the wild, where pvp is just pvp. Tagging a city so that you can't lose rep around there, as long as the other citizens accept you, is legit though. That's player driven. Still has potential for people to tag a faction/city and grief thru many other means, tho.

Local Grey is something I suggested, too! I like that. Local grey is very underrated. Making you KoS by guards is not. The idea of local grey is to avoid being KoS by guards imo haha. The guards should protect the towns.

The reasons why I am wary of patrols are manifold. Node lines, possible grief by 'tricking people' and leading them into guards, invisible guards, guards under the ground, stuck guards. This is a big undertaking that SV is nowhere near able to implement, and a system not requiring them would be much better. Not to mention someone in the wild who was crim w/ a horse could lead the guards wherever they wanted to. BAD IDEA.

Here is my idea once again, it sucks having to post it in SO MANY THREADS, but since it keeps coming up and people keep making new threads, I guess I have to!

EMDASH SUPER COOL IDEA:

You start out as an innocent, blue flag. You are FOR REAL INNOCENT, a PVE player. You cannot loot players, you cannot push players, you cannot attack players, you can ONLY fight back when someone attempts to murder you, then of course you would be able to take their loot. To prevent blue blocking and such, in order to murder such a player, you would have to target them and CHOOSE them as a murder target. It would not bring up a menu or even a screen, to prevent these people from running around in the middle of fights and griefing. The biggest downside I guess would be SPIES. However, you can be an alt of someone who is not innocent, but this character is 100% GUARANTEED INNOCENT! If people want to play the game like that, then they should be able to. Killing these people should have big consequences, ones that cannot be just overcome by owning a keep and not entering town. As for what the consequences are, dunno!

There will be places for these people to practice pvp, duels, a pvp arena, whatever.

When you are ready, should you choose, you can become a grey flag. A grey flag is open pvp. It cannot pvp in town and it cannot run into town during pvp, but since it is now a pvper, it can no longer be declared innocent, even if the person IS innocent, the only way to decide this is by your peers, and your peers will decide by NOT ATTACKING YOU when you are local grey. No game system will ever properly distinguish innocence. Just not possible. YOU CAN NEVER UNFLAG GREY. There could be penalties for excessively killing greys, maybe some sort of a sympathy system for people who are picking on weak greys all of the time. These penalties would NOT involve being unable to enter town, being KoS, etc, but who knows what they would need to be.

You can even extend 'guarded' areas around towns. Guards will always deter conflict, and go after the aggressor. THAT'S THEIR PURPOSE!

Wardec becomes a declaration of asset destruction. No moar ninja siege. It is gives an alert and an amount of time that says they are attempting to destroy your assets, and then they can. You can still set up your stuff pre, but you can't actually start slinging until the time. You can start whittling down their forces, though. Innocents are still innocents, but they probably shouldn't be able to repair stuff, either. So, if you kill an innocent during war, it won't carry the same weight as it would a raw murder, but it would still be discouraged as a 'war crime.'

Also, as an aside, since I oppose town fighting heavily and people say that it's an anti zerg mechanic to prevent big guilds from gearing up, if that is true then what about this: in x amount of time, you can construct a structure (no mats needed necessarily, just a symbol) outside of a city that must be destroyed before the guild you are at war with can access their banks/npcs. Basically a supply chain block. If they want to stop this, they have to come out and fight you. We get rid of immersion breaking town fighting while allowing guilds who know how to plan for pvp, strike properly, etc, the same mechanic without having to priest camp and chase people around town. This would also encourage people to call in their allies for help and create more conflict, which imo IS GOOD. And since most people are local grey, there wouldn't be any flag issues.

People want pvp, but they are afraid of pvp. Even non consensual pvpers are afraid of open pvp. Jokez, I say. They think it will drive people out of the game, but they can easily flag innocent til they are ready, and if they dislike what they get afterwards, they can reroll blue and build up until they are again ready to enter the pvp scene. Plus, there will still be murderers, but at least we can say what they are doing is actually murder. Some might say innocents should not be able to trade with nons because of alts and such, but if that's how you play, how you get your disputes handled (by gearing fighters), I don't think it's problematic. It poses more of an issue to lock it out.

If the issue is that people who don't EVER want pvp are getting pvp'd then fucking punish the people who pvp them. If the issue is sometimes pvpers are getting pvp'd when they don't want it. wah wah w/ that shit. Make some allies, don't be a dick.

 

[Albanjo Dravae]

Yo, in all seriousness, someone who poured money into SV do me a solid. Let me write something and show it to Henrik. haha. SHIT. If I knew it was going to be actually taken in and considered by DA MAN HIMSELF, I would put tremendous thought into it. Even if I could only do it once. It makes me v sad as a forum nobody who is constantly spamming (sometimes maybe bad, maybe not!) ideas that I cannot have a direct pipe line ever.

I'm gonna read the doc, but from the bullet points, it doesn't sound like something I'd cosign. Let me READ.

Edit: my impressions: SHOW THEM TO HENRIK!!!

I was expecting a long document.

The faction system is ok, but I dunno if it works. Gloria Victis has this. Unfortunately, it does take away inter-factional disputes. I imagine more disputes happen among close people than in the wild, where pvp is just pvp. Tagging a city so that you can't lose rep around there, as long as the other citizens accept you, is legit though. That's player driven. Still has potential for people to tag a faction/city and grief thru many other means, tho.

Local Grey is something I suggested, too! I like that. Local grey is very underrated. Making you KoS by guards is not. The idea of local grey is to avoid being KoS by guards imo haha. The guards should protect the towns.

The reasons why I am wary of patrols are manifold. Node lines, possible grief by 'tricking people' and leading them into guards, invisible guards, guards under the ground, stuck guards. This is a big undertaking that SV is nowhere near able to implement, and a system not requiring them would be much better. Not to mention someone in the wild who was crim w/ a horse could lead the guards wherever they wanted to. BAD IDEA.

Here is my idea once again, it sucks having to post it in SO MANY THREADS, but since it keeps coming up and people keep making new threads, I guess I have to!

EMDASH SUPER COOL IDEA:

You start out as an innocent, blue flag. You are FOR REAL INNOCENT, a PVE player. You cannot loot players, you cannot push players, you cannot attack players, you can ONLY fight back when someone attempts to murder you, then of course you would be able to take their loot. To prevent blue blocking and such, in order to murder such a player, you would have to target them and CHOOSE them as a murder target. It would not bring up a menu or even a screen, to prevent these people from running around in the middle of fights and griefing. The biggest downside I guess would be SPIES. However, you can be an alt of someone who is not innocent, but this character is 100% GUARANTEED INNOCENT! If people want to play the game like that, then they should be able to. Killing these people should have big consequences, ones that cannot be just overcome by owning a keep and not entering town. As for what the consequences are, dunno!

There will be places for these people to practice pvp, duels, a pvp arena, whatever.

When you are ready, should you choose, you can become a grey flag. A grey flag is open pvp. It cannot pvp in town and it cannot run into town during pvp, but since it is now a pvper, it can no longer be declared innocent, even if the person IS innocent, the only way to decide this is by your peers, and your peers will decide by NOT ATTACKING YOU when you are local grey. No game system will ever properly distinguish innocence. Just not possible. YOU CAN NEVER UNFLAG GREY. There could be penalties for excessively killing greys, maybe some sort of a sympathy system for people who are picking on weak greys all of the time. These penalties would NOT involve being unable to enter town, being KoS, etc, but who knows what they would need to be.

You can even extend 'guarded' areas around towns. Guards will always deter conflict, and go after the aggressor. THAT'S THEIR PURPOSE!

Wardec becomes a declaration of asset destruction. No moar ninja siege. It is gives an alert and an amount of time that says they are attempting to destroy your assets, and then they can. You can still set up your stuff pre, but you can't actually start slinging until the time. You can start whittling down their forces, though. Innocents are still innocents, but they probably shouldn't be able to repair stuff, either. So, if you kill an innocent during war, it won't carry the same weight as it would a raw murder, but it would still be discouraged as a 'war crime.'

Also, as an aside, since I oppose town fighting heavily and people say that it's an anti zerg mechanic to prevent big guilds from gearing up, if that is true then what about this: in x amount of time, you can construct a structure (no mats needed necessarily, just a symbol) outside of a city that must be destroyed before the guild you are at war with can access their banks/npcs. Basically a supply chain block. If they want to stop this, they have to come out and fight you. We get rid of immersion breaking town fighting while allowing guilds who know how to plan for pvp, strike properly, etc, the same mechanic without having to priest camp and chase people around town. This would also encourage people to call in their allies for help and create more conflict, which imo IS GOOD. And since most people are local grey, there wouldn't be any flag issues.

People want pvp, but they are afraid of pvp. Even non consensual pvpers are afraid of open pvp. Jokez, I say. They think it will drive people out of the game, but they can easily flag innocent til they are ready, and if they dislike what they get afterwards, they can reroll blue and build up until they are again ready to enter the pvp scene. Plus, there will still be murderers, but at least we can say what they are doing is actually murder. Some might say innocents should not be able to trade with nons because of alts and such, but if that's how you play, how you get your disputes handled (by gearing fighters), I don't think it's problematic. It poses more of an issue to lock it out.

If the issue is that people who don't EVER want pvp are getting pvp'd then fucking punish the people who pvp them. If the issue is sometimes pvpers are getting pvp'd when they don't want it. wah wah w/ that shit. Make some allies, don't be a dick.

Problem Is when dog ass suggestions bypass the regular methods and go through a direct line, when SV should be checking forums and even preparing answers and statements towards players conocerns.

Like in MO1, sieging TC would drop scraps and before a big siege (not gonna give names) someone slipped a "suggestion" through a direct line and SV ended up doing a hotfix that almost removed completly the scraps mechanics, and it was clearly why. I'd hate to see that kind of personal treatment in MO2, wouldn't you?

 

[Eldrath]

Problem Is when dog ass suggestions bypass the regular methods and go through a direct line, when SV should be checking forums and even preparing answers and statements towards players conocerns.

Like in MO1, sieging TC would drop scraps and before a big siege (not gonna give names) someone slipped a "suggestion" through a direct line and SV ended up doing a hotfix that almost removed completly the scraps mechanics, and it was clearly why. I'd hate to see that kind of personal treatment in MO2, wouldn't you?

I don´t know about that. Looking at the patch notes and the forums during beta I´ve more than a few suggestions taken straight over without any type of translatation. To me it looks like the person responsible either does not care or simply has no vision for the game themselves.

Ideally a smart person would read the forums, interact with the community (as in ask intelligent questions and write exposition about their vision of the game) and use the input to iterate on their design. When Mats was the games designer he did exactly that for both the lore and big picture decisions.

Someone like that might be approached by a well connected person, listen to their feedback and then make up their own mind on how to implement it.

 

[Rolufe]

Problem Is when dog ass suggestions bypass the regular methods and go through a direct line, when SV should be checking forums and even preparing answers and statements towards players conocerns.

Like in MO1, sieging TC would drop scraps and before a big siege (not gonna give names) someone slipped a "suggestion" through a direct line and SV ended up doing a hotfix that almost removed completly the scraps mechanics, and it was clearly why. I'd hate to see that kind of personal treatment in MO2, wouldn't you?

It was broken when it was profitable to siege. Not weird guilds that previously coulnt/wouldnt do sieges started doing them for profit with all those deeds dropping. Also logistics was reduced by 50%.

Edit: Been meaning to answer your longer message but i was so nackered after the first long message i answered, feel a bit worn out.

 

[[CTX] Contractor]

Scraps from sieges was amazing. People say they want attackers to work harder to destroy and MO1 sieging ended up as the most boring thing to do in-game.

Hopefully with the new sieging we aren't seeing it be a boring and uneventful process.

 

[Albanjo Dravae]

It was broken when it was profitable to siege. Not weird guilds that previously coulnt/wouldnt do sieges started doing them for profit with all those deeds dropping. Also logistics was reduced by 50%.

Edit: Been meaning to answer your longer message but i was so nackered after the first long message i answered, feel a bit worn out.

Yeah i agreed that scraps mechanics was broken but funny enough it was hotfixed (like nothing else) before a specific keep siege. It would have been a completly different thing if that patch came through before or after that server war happened and not after "some" people already had taken advantage of the mechanics. Obviously we can't expect SV to be present in every single stage of the game yet i consider that specific hotfix was at least shady cuz it was obviously unfair.
That particular and poorly taken game changing mechanic was the drop that spilled the glass for a lot of people and it was one of the things SV did not think in terms of fairness. It stank like a favor for a side from the development team. You can't have that shit happening on a competitive game specially when its so grindy and based in time sink mechanics.

Idk what you mean about logistics were reduced by 50% u mean the siege building costs? Cuz that didn't happen on the same hotfix as far as i remember.

 

[Albanjo Dravae]

I don´t know about that. Looking at the patch notes and the forums during beta I´ve more than a few suggestions taken straight over without any type of translatation. To me it looks like the person responsible either does not care or simply has no vision for the game themselves.

Ideally a smart person would read the forums, interact with the community (as in ask intelligent questions and write exposition about their vision of the game) and use the input to iterate on their design. When Mats was the games designer he did exactly that for both the lore and big picture decisions.

Someone like that might be approached by a well connected person, listen to their feedback and then make up their own mind on how to implement it.

I mean yeah, they can do with the game whatever they want. They could even hire a player to help in the design of certain things. For me it shows a massive lack of professionalism to have an official feedback channel when they don't aknowledge what its said and certain players slip arbitrary suggestions under the table.

One thing they couldn't ever accomplish (and they tried a little bit) was to have a dedicated role to serve as a bridge between the community and the game designers. SV offered this bridge role to players that had their own agenda and only served as a brigde for specific suggestions, so when you ain't impartial when handling the community feedback the content will be shit and the community will resent the development.

If Henrik can't personally browse, comment and interact with the community feedback i believe they should hire someone that does, and definitely not a player, a role that Mats somewhat did.

 

[Rolufe]

Yeah i agreed that scraps mechanics was broken but funny enough it was hotfixed (like nothing else) before a specific keep siege. It would have been a completly different thing if that patch came through before or after that server war happened and not after "some" people already had taken advantage of the mechanics. Obviously we can't expect SV to be present in every single stage of the game yet i consider that specific hotfix was at least shady cuz it was obviously unfair.
That particular and poorly taken game changing mechanic was the drop that spilled the glass for a lot of people and it was one of the things SV did not think in terms of fairness. It stank like a favor for a side from the development team. You can't have that shit happening on a competitive game specially when its so grindy and based in time sink mechanics.

Pretty sure they changed it after we lost the 2 keeps. I could be wrong, that whole time was just a complete mess. Whole guilds whiped of the map cuz of some special resource accounting... TC towers in unreachable locations, guilds walling off a capital and dungeons , GMs deleting things cuz the enemy faction complained and a great number of other things. Large parts of the population quitting the game for Albion and other games cuz of the previous reason. Quite safe to say it was one of the worst moments in MO1.

Quite sure SV isnt all that fond of me mentioning this either, cuz it also seems they just wanna forget about MO1

Edit: Yea those 2 siege patches did somewhat feel like a direct attack on ID at the time. Not that awesome for ID having been in a situation in EVE where the developers did do that with the intention of screwing ID. Either way Its in the past and we move on. Hopefully less sketchy things happen in the future.

Best time in MO1 was when we had Jonas delivering weekly(every second week?) patch notes for us. Good times