A continuation of the Real Time Combat thread & Some thoughts on netcode

[Nudisto]

Great suggestion thread that was posted here about several melee mechanics that can be improved on:

Real time combat

Honestly...its a joke. Mordhau has set the standard for real time melee combat. MO2 and any melee action combat game these days aren't even getting close to that standard. I understand that MO and MO2 lean towards group combat but that's no excuse not to have a semi decent melee system that...

mortalonline2.com

I would also like to discuss netcode, as some of you will bring up MO can't be anything like mordhau since it's a singleshard MMO but the reality is that Mortal has a poor netcode implementation. Normalization for example is only applied to certain things (or possibly broken) and does not solve desync issues.

Below is a video demonstration where lower ping players have a huge advantage when it comes to blocking due to lack of normalization:

Another issue is movement desync which is pretty bad as many of you have experienced when you get hit from far away in duels. This could be mostly solved by implementing predictive extrapolation. They also need to work on the issue with players teleporting due to packetloss on other players screens as this could lead to lagswitching exploits.

Without these fixes, combat will not be a positive or fair experience. I know it's not easy an easy fix but it needs to be done (before release).

 

[Chef]

SV has implemented ping normalization so netcode isn't an issue anymore

 

[Pech]

SV has implemented ping normalization so netcode isn't an issue anymore

At the end of the day the games an MMO with a lot of mechanics outside of combat. The combat ping wont ever be perfect. But honestly thats kinda fine. Most mmos have issues with ping, this game is just a bit more affected than others
I do think we could get more work on the combat, It tends to give off a bad first impression but feels better after people get use to it. Not super sure what they could do about that

 

[Nudisto]

SV has implemented ping normalization so netcode isn't an issue anymore

I hope this is sarcasm. ping normalization is not implemented for blocking as shown in the video... could be broken. Ping normalization also doesn't solve the desync issues or people teleporting.

 

[Chef]

I hope this is sarcasm. ping normalization is not implemented for blocking as shown in the video... could be broken. Ping normalization also doesn't solve the desync issues or people teleporting.

I haven't seen people teleporting since MO1.

 

[Tzone]

I hope this is sarcasm. ping normalization is not implemented for blocking as shown in the video... could be broken. Ping normalization also doesn't solve the desync issues or people teleporting.

Most of the current teleporting is packet loss and not high ping. Ive seen several lagswitchers which is most of the people who are teleporting. You have thymorical kinda skips a couple inches when hes on truck stop wifi and then a couple of aussies who have allunimum wiring for internet. Most of the aussies who teleport is rare and only once.

 

[Nudisto]

Most of the current teleporting is packet loss and not high ping. Ive seen several lagswitchers which is most of the people who are teleporting. You have thymorical kinda skips a couple inches when hes on truck stop wifi and then a couple of aussies who have allunimum wiring for internet. Most of the aussies who teleport is rare and only once.

Yeah that's what i said in my original post. That's due to their netcode not handling it properly. Most games will smooth out the packet loss player on the server end. It's even possible to make it smooth on the packet loss player's end if they want to go the extra mile.

SV doesn't have to reinvent the wheel, there is solutions to all these issues. It's just matter of them putting in the effort. Let's stop pretending like the current state of their netcode is acceptable in 2021...

 

[ElPerro]

Yeah that's what i said in my original post. That's due to their netcode not handling it properly. Most games will smooth out the packet loss player on the server end. It's even possible to make it smooth on the packet loss player's end if they want to go the extra mile.

SV doesn't have to reinvent the wheel, there is solutions to all these issues. It's just matter of them putting in the effort. Let's stop pretending like the current state of their netcode is acceptable in 2021...

Well the solution is having regional servers lol, I don't think theres really much else they can do. Please tell me which other game has implemented a global server with twitch gameplay? What solutions? They dont exist because It's not really possible with the current technology. Henrik is just stubborn and wont even put the server on East coast NA so most of the population has decent ping.

 

[Woody]

Another issue is movement desync which is pretty bad as many of you have experienced when you get hit from far away in duels. This could be mostly solved by implementing predictive extrapolation. They also need to work on the issue with players teleporting due to packetloss on other players screens as this could lead to lagswitching exploits.

The problem with extrapolation when it comes to player position sync in games, is that on foot you can change direction on a dime (e.g. you can strafe left then instantly strafe right). Extrapolation can't account for sudden change in direction. It has no way to know that you're about to change and even then, it's just going to over compensate your position (especially higher pings), exasperating the problem further. It ends up looking janky.

This is in contrast to vehicles or horses that are going forward and turning on a fixed angle, which means you can extrapolate this well across all degree of pings without it looking janky.

I don't think you're ever going to be able to resolve the getting hit from further away issue because of this and because hit detection is clientside (as it should be).

Packet loss needs to be a kick. If you're dropping packets like crazy, sort your shit, or be kicked.

 

[Tzone]

Yeah that's what i said in my original post. That's due to their netcode not handling it properly. Most games will smooth out the packet loss player on the server end. It's even possible to make it smooth on the packet loss player's end if they want to go the extra mile.

SV doesn't have to reinvent the wheel, there is solutions to all these issues. It's just matter of them putting in the effort. Let's stop pretending like the current state of their netcode is acceptable in 2021...

Honestly some people should just be kicked for bad packet loss rate. If someone lag switches that isnt the netcode. Its different when its sparatic teleportation like you some times see with some aus players. The kick should be tailored around not kicking Aus players.

Its really tiresome when some dude runs butter smooth up until he sees you or pulls out a bow. Then does some goku after image teleporting around. Or when you break line of sight with a archer but still get hit behind a hill or wall.

 

[Nudisto]

The problem with extrapolation when it comes to player position sync in games, is that on foot you can change direction on a dime (e.g. you can strafe left then instantly strafe right). Extrapolation can't account for sudden change in direction. It has no way to know that you're about to change and even then, it's just going to over compensate your position (especially higher pings), exasperating the problem further. It ends up looking janky.

This is in contrast to vehicles or horses that are going forward and turning on a fixed angle, which means you can extrapolate this well across all degree of pings without it looking janky.

I don't think you're ever going to be able to resolve the getting hit from further away issue because of this and because hit detection is clientside (as it should be).

Packet loss needs to be a kick. If you're dropping packets like crazy, sort your shit, or be kicked.

Extrapolation can work well and plenty of fps games take advantage of it. As for packetloss there is no need to kick players if you fix the problem that causes them to teleport across the map... You can't just kick players over packetloss, everyone loses packets no matter how good their internet connection is at some point.

 

[Farligbonde]

But if you normalise blocking, dosent that make blocking slow af aswell?
Wouldnt that make combat feel more janky?

Anyhow. I dont think normalising ping on blocking is realistic at all before launch.
They have a lot of other things to do and if they implemented that it would prob have a lot of kinks and the current server optimizations is done without normalising blocking. They would prob have to have another stress test and a few months of bugfixing to make it work as intended.

 

[Tzone]

Yeah SV kicking players for their bad skills at making video games would be a good look on top of the horrible look they have from MO.

Also you do realize SV sacrificed the games integrity and made the game worse for all non Aussie players to sweeten Aussies experience in MO2 ?
They slowed the game down by close to 50% due to Aussies having problems they still have now because Aussies cried they couldnt beat other players, they slowed weapon speeds down alot so that Aussies could parry anyone no matter the ping difference, thats why we have parry whore online. Transition times such as the artificial time between block and swing was increased because Aussies lagged so they needed more time to react to incoming hits.

I mean you cant make up this shit, we all thought it was bad in MO but MO2 is taking it to a whole different level.
And think we are supposed to have more than 11 years better tech, not to say 11 years better video game making skills for SV which already fled out the window months upon months ago.
Reality is always so much worse then fantasy sadly.

Im not talking about kicking aussies, Im talking about people who;s packet loss just makes the game unenjoyable for other players due to constant teleporting around. Almost all Aussies are not teleporting to a degree that is bother some. Its sparatic.

Im talking about kicking people who have far to much packet loss for other players to play against them. If you are trying to hit a player who is just teleporting every half second the game is unplable for you. Its not the netcode at that point its their packet loss. SV cant fix their packet loss. Ping is not the issue, they are still sending all the packets they may hit you from farther away but they arent constantly teleporting.

Aussies with fiber have almost no packet loss. But why I bring up aussies is because they have underdeveloped internet with many having slight packet loss issues. These issue will occasianally at random cause them to teleport, but its not a issue which I am saying kick them for as it does not ruing the game for other people.

 

[ThaBadMan]

Im not talking about kicking aussies, Im talking about people who;s packet loss just makes the game unenjoyable for other players due to constant teleporting around. Almost all Aussies are not teleporting to a degree that is bother some. Its sparatic.

Im talking about kicking people who have far to much packet loss for other players to play against them. If you are trying to hit a player who is just teleporting every half second the game is unplable for you. Its not the netcode at that point its their packet loss. SV cant fix their packet loss. Ping is not the issue, they are still sending all the packets they may hit you from farther away but they arent constantly teleporting.

Aussies with fiber have almost no packet loss. But why I bring up aussies is because they have underdeveloped internet with many having slight packet loss issues. These issue will occasianally at random cause them to teleport, but its not a issue which I am saying kick them for as it does not ruing the game for other people.

What I mean with Aussies is thats the reason behind slowing the games combat and general speeds down, if they are faster bad Aussie players dont have reaction times to react with their high ping, some Aussies can and some cant but the decision was made, and made before ping normalization came to add that.

Packet loss kicks is bothersome since a simple hickup will then kick you and leave you in game for long enough to die 10 times, they did have this later in MO I remember cause I used to lose connection very often. To note I only had that problem when playing MO, no other game, and on top I lived right next to the server back then.

Imo you wont get around teleporting players in a one world server with a open world and way better graphics then it should. Not to start talking about lack of optimizations, stability, polish and general smoothness.

 

[Nudisto]

Don't know why I have to keep repeating this but players teleporting due to packet loss is 100% solvable.

 

[ThaBadMan]

Don't know why I have to keep repeating this but players teleporting due to packet loss is 100% solvable.

It might be for some companies for some games true. Im not qualified on the subject other then my own experiences and hearsay.

 

[Tzone]

Don't know why I have to keep repeating this but players teleporting due to packet loss is 100% solvable.

When the playe lag switches are you going to teleport him on his cleint to where the server said he was? Im not talking or caring about a little bit of stuter or some one teleporting two or four feet randomly. Im talking about people that have just high packet loss there is no multiplay game they could play reasonably. Minor packet loss esspecially with a lower ping is fixable. Its not fixable when people are allowed to lag switch, esspecially when they shoot you on their cleint which is standing still for them.