A case for permadeath

[Kebek]

Ask MO players what they enjoy about the game and 9 times out of 10 they will answer "the ever present danger".
This doesn't just apply to PvP players who actively engage in the killing of others but also traders or more PvE focused players who simply enjoy the danger of other human players preying on them.

In MO, your actions and choices have consequences. You want to take the quick but dangerous route to your destination? May pay with your life and lose your items.
Perhaps you should have taken the long but safe route instead?

It's only been a few weeks since the last wipe and people have already come to a point where even losing all your items and maybe losing a bit of weight isn't an issue anymore.

"But mister Kebek, that's just cause of the rates!"

No, the loot rates aren't x100. Did the process of gathering materials get sped up by the faster leveling? Sure, a bit. Won't take much longer to get to the point we are now when persistence hits, however.

Death is nothing but a minor inconvenience. You lose a minute or two getting back to a place where you can get fully regeared in seconds.

That's why I propose (and you should all support) permadeath.

What can permadeath do for you? Well, glad you asked:

• Increased sense of danger
• Bigger consequences for the choices you make
• A sense of pride and accomplishment for surviving a certain amount of days (consider personal records)

Now, I am very aware the game has opened up a bit to a broader audience and there will be some among us that are a bit "soft". Therefore, I am willing to concede that permadeath doesn't kick in until your character has died 3 times, for example.


What say ye?

 

[Xunila]

Permadeath is just stupid! This is no shooter where you start again after 10 minutes. In MO you have to work hard for many months of play time and there are books or spells which you get after killing a boss in the dungeon.

 

[Kokolo]

I mean, losing items is one thing, but the knowledge and banked items is different. As extra fun during Closed Beta during wipes you can always make it a challenge for yourself to reroll your character.

 

[Jackdstripper]

Nothing is stopping you from deleting your character every time you die. Go ahead, do it. Play permanent death if you love it so much.
something tells me you won’t stick with it very long though, especially when stating/skilling up will take months.not to even mention all the deaths from bugs, getting stuck, falling thorough the world, cheaters, game crashes, random fall damage, etc....yea no thanks.

 

[Kaemik]

Nothing is stopping you from deleting your character every time you die. Go ahead, do it. Play permanent death if you love it so much.

As much as I disagree with the idea of permadeath in nearly any game that isn't entirely based on it (It's that major of a feature), I always find this argument super funny.

"Nobody is stopping you from making New World full loot. Just trade all your items to your enemy every time you die." Would be a similarly solid argument.

Permadeath is meaningless if it's not universal.

That being said, it is in no way right for Mortal Online. Carry on.

 

[Speznat]

How about a extra perma death server. as optional. I would play on this from time to time xD

But yeah Dofus for example is an MMO and has this. Its works well. But yeah it can be really frustrating more than you imagine.

So yeah, im not sure what i think of this, because you die due to bugs every hour anyway xD.

It simply wouldnÄt work for a game like Mortal.

 

[Kebek]

Nothing is stopping you from deleting your character every time you die.

You must not have actually read my OP. The idea would be losing your character after 3 deaths, not every time you die.

As Kaemik also said, that is a non-argument.

 

[Morwen]

I am sorry but permadeath in such a buggy indi game is worst combination possible.

 

[Archiel]

Not sure if troll or..
It's hardly being "too soft" to not want to reset your character every time you die, a large percentage of death is caused by bugs, not to mention the possible griefing this would create.
This would also make people even less likely to experience the game in any other form than being in the biggest alliance they can find for safety.
The zerglings would be even more prominent.

 

[Kaemik]

I'll put forth, the main reason I hate this idea for Mortal Online is the skill system, and a general hatred of grinding. It will take a bit to build up some of your more essential skills when x100 goes away. The main thing that personally makes this bearable to me is the fact it will be over fast. Introduce perma-death and there is going to be A LOT of grinding going on.

Also, you would get dedicated crafter characters that sit in houses and keeps and never leave them so they don't have to re-grind crafting skills.

The only way I can support this is with a complete overhaul of the skills system, both in terms of how it works, and even more importantly in terms of how skills are raised. Not to say I think there is any chance of it happening. Just that I would be more open to the idea if I saw an end result other than the game being more grindy.

 

[Kebek]

The main goal is to add some actual loss to death. Right now death is nothing but a minor inconvenience. Losing loot means little to nothing.

Perhaps you would be more open to a system where you can regain "lives" over time? Similar to how the MC counter works.
For example, after 24 hours of playing, you gain back a life but if you run out of your 3 lives, it's game over.

Playing risky and dying 3 times in quick succession is NOT an accident, it's a choice.

I see a bit of contradiction from the community here. They claim to enjoy the "danger" but at the same time they want to be able to die 10 times in a hour without real consequences.

Permadeath is just stupid! This is no shooter where you start again after 10 minutes.

So this was a funny argument since it seems like this is exactly what people want MO to be like. Death has no meaning and people just respawn all the time as if nothing happened.

 

[Kaemik]

The greatest mechanic for gains and losses has yet to be implemented. Territorial control. It's also worth noting that while smart players don't roll around in full Cron or Ohg for ganking, players will create such things to use in sieges because the stakes of those fights are so much higher. At the point you see people in siege gear "Losing loot means little to nothing" will be very untrue. Losing a full set of cron or ohg means something for sure.

I imagine naval combat will be pretty high stakes as well. Its unlikely ships will be cheap.

 

[Kebek]

The greatest mechanic for gains and losses has yet to be implemented. Territorial control. It's also worth noting that while smart players don't roll around in full Cron or Ohg for ganking, players will create such things to use in sieges because the stakes of those fights are so much higher. At the point you see people in siege gear "Losing loot means little to nothing" will be very untrue. Losing a full set of cron or ohg means something for sure.

I imagine naval combat will be pretty high stakes as well. Its unlikely ships will be cheap.

It should take you owning a keep to have actual consequences for death in the game...

 

[Kaemik]

If the skillgrind were less tedious I might be open to this. Right now, leveling in this game is awful. It's only redeeming feature is it's over fast.

I get what you are going for but it's never going to happen. More realistic ways to increase the stakes:

1. A focus on making housing and villages meaningful for small groups so everyone has stakes in territorial control.

2. Making ship play a priority and ensuring people have good reasons to go on the ocean. Ocean PvE is really important. For instance one thing Darkfall Unholy Wars absolutely got better then DFO was the ocean. In DFO sometimes groups would go hunt a kracken, other than that and sieges the ocean was always empty. Unholy Wars introduced sea scrapers and fishing ships that produced resources as you sailed around. In DF:UW piracy became a viable profession because there were enough people out on the water you actually had a chance to jack their boats.

3. Make cheap gear less good. I don't like the idea of a game being about gear grind but full loot changes what the term "gear grind" means. In a game like ArcheAge you grind to the top then effortlessly kill people with no risk forever. In a game like MO2, if you play dumb with good gear you lose it, if you play well with bad gear, you get people's good gear.

Based on this, things like bone tissue armor with fullgrain padding should be A LOT worse than they are, and some lower weight but rarer materials should be A LOT better. As is, there is barely anything in the way of grades of materials. For the most part there is just lighter and heavier with their respective upsides and downsides and a lot of cheap but good materials found for most item types.

 

[SoftHater]

I love this pseudo-canadian hyena guy : ).
Yall bunch of softies.
I'm gonna play MO2 connected to electric cables live and neutral interrupted by a relay which only closes upon character death,
that's real perma-death.

I love perma-death, it adds more depth in gameplay and makes players act in more realistic way instead of just mindlessy tryhard to PVP everyone.
But in an subscription based MMO it is a no go feature, usually big part of MMOs audience plays for the feel of "progression".
Try to guess how many players will rage-quit-uninstall-askrefund after few deaths in a row .

 

[LivingshadeNL]

How much did you smoke before this? So much wrong with this idea dont know where to start

 

[Rorry]

Sounds like a pvp killer. So, no.

 

[Kebek]

Sounds like a pvp killer. So, no.

I'm sure that's what people said about full loot too at one time.

"Nobody will want to go out there and risk everything by fighting."

 

[Kokolo]

Sounds like a pvp killer. So, no.

Yeah, I feel like there is too much going on in the rest of the game outside of fighting to lose it all.
If I become a master crafter and someone decides to grief me for the lolz it's a massive punishment for me but they have nothing to lose. I cannot see myself leaving safe enough areas in that game.

But like @Speznat said, a separate server would be fun for me to have a character every now and then.

Then again I am a new player so I could be percieving things differently from you guys.

 

[LivingshadeNL]

So funny how people are trying to change M.O's core so much u dont recognize the game after.