The Secret HUGE Advantage of Alvarins (My Gift to Iloros)

Sally

Active member
Dec 2, 2023
259
154
43
So, i was watching a video of a blatant cheater on youtube (who i won't name, but have reported), and i noticed something.

Their aimbot was struggling to track the movement of a sheevra when firing arrows at said sheevra; but was able to headshot a thursar persistently with ease.

This may be quite complex to understand for some, but stay with me...

If a thursar is twice the size of an alvarin, the alvarin has a clear mathematical dodge advantage simply because it needs to move less to avoid being hit. Since attacks hit based on overlap, the larger thursar effectively has a bigger “target radius,” meaning it must move farther to escape danger. With equal movement speed and instant acceleration (momentumless movement), this directly translates into more time and less effort required for the alvarin to dodge. In the best case (very small attacks; aka arrows, spells), the alvarin may need up to 50% LESS movement (if the thursar is roughly twice the size of the alvarin) to avoid a hit, while even against large attacks it still benefits from needing less repositioning. In short, smaller size makes dodging easier because it reduces the distance, and therefore time, needed to get out of harm’s way.

So even if Alvarins were the SAME speed as thursars, just by being smaller, they gain a movement advantage against non-aoe small hitbox attacks (which is essentially most ranged attacks).

Again, mathematically, If the alvarin hitbox is around half the size of the thursar, they gain a 50% movement speed benefit IF THEY MOVE THE SAME SPEED. So, you can imagine, alvarins move WAY faster than thursars, and they may already be gaining around a 50% dodge advantage just due to their size.

Basically... Alvarins currently have the advantage of being smaller and being faster... But what people do not seems to factor in is that:

When small size is combined with movement speed, it becomes ANOTHER compounding advantage. This advantage basically means it is SUBSTANTIALLY easier to dodge ranged attacks as an alvarin, as the distance needed to dodge is MUCH lower. In essence, you can almost think of it as alvarins gaining double the benefit of their movement speed because of their size.

So basically... Min height Sheevra have a HUGE advantage from dexterity. Veela? not as much, but still.

Now, i was always aware of this factor, but i didn't realize just how substantial of an advantage it was until i saw the cheater's aimbot trying to hit an sheevra, and then did some rough calculations via AI.

I now can't help but agree that: Maybe Alvarins DO infact need a nerf; but more specifically, sheevras.

The question is this: Did Starvault factor this in? If they did, then this is intended. But.. Like, the aimbot missed substantially more because they were a sheevra; like, more than double, where as it was able to headshot thursars multiple times without missing; basically zero misses against the thursar, often headshotting, and over half misses against a sheevra.
 
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Iloros

Active member
Dec 14, 2023
190
42
28
So, i was watching a video of a blatant cheater on youtube (who i won't name, but have reported), and i noticed something.

Their aimbot was struggling to track the movement of a sheevra when firing arrows at said sheevra; but was able to headshot a thursar persistently with ease.

This may be quite complex to understand for some, but stay with me...

If a thursar is twice the size of an alvarin, the alvarin has a clear mathematical dodge advantage simply because it needs to move less to avoid being hit. Since attacks hit based on overlap, the larger thursar effectively has a bigger “target radius,” meaning it must move farther to escape danger. With equal movement speed and instant acceleration (momentumless movement), this directly translates into more time and less effort required for the alvarin to dodge. In the best case (very small attacks; aka arrows, spells), the alvarin may need up to 50% LESS movement (if the thursar is roughly twice the size of the alvarin) to avoid a hit, while even against large attacks it still benefits from needing less repositioning. In short, smaller size makes dodging easier because it reduces the distance, and therefore time, needed to get out of harm’s way.

So even if Alvarins were the SAME speed as thursars, just by being smaller, they gain a movement advantage against non-aoe small hitbox attacks (which is essentially most ranged attacks).

Again, mathematically, If the alvarin hitbox is around half the size of the thursar, they gain a 50% movement speed benefit IF THEY MOVE THE SAME SPEED. So, you can imagine, alvarins move WAY faster than thursars, and they may already be gaining around a 50% dodge advantage just due to their size.

Basically... Alvarins currently have the advantage of being smaller and being faster... But what people do not seems to factor in is that:

When small size is combined with movement speed, it becomes ANOTHER compounding advantage. This advantage basically means it is SUBSTANTIALLY easier to dodge ranged attacks as an alvarin, as the distance needed to dodge is MUCH lower. In essence, you can almost think of it as alvarins gaining double the benefit of their movement speed because of their size.

So basically... Min height Sheevra have a HUGE advantage from dexterity. Veela? not as much, but still.

Now, i was always aware of this factor, but i didn't realize just how substantial of an advantage it was until i saw the cheater's aimbot trying to hit an sheevra, and then did some rough calculations via AI.

I now can't help but agree that: Maybe Alvarins DO infact need a nerf; but more specifically, sheevras.

The question is this: Did Starvault factor this in? If they did, then this is intended. But.. Like, the aimbot missed substantially more because they were a sheevra; like, more than double, where as it was able to headshot thursars multiple times without missing; basically zero misses against the thursar, often headshotting, and over half misses against a sheevra.
People in this game understoof for years size as a stat is a net negative.

All the weakest builds tend to be largest of its kind and all the strongest ones tend to be smallest.

The tallest meta build is Alvarin footie at 184cm which is super short in mortal's height chart.

Humans and Thursars are inherently always worse than Oghmirs and Alvarins given equal clade gift balance (its not balanced but still) BECAUSE size as a stat has huge disadvantages. I spoke about this for years and made multiple forum posts asking for size buff as in making height stat give 3x more HP to account in the massive durability disadvantage from being giant.

Human kallard is the worst human because its the tallest one/khurite is bad too because Alvarins are OP.

Thursar Kallard is good relativr to Thursars because it maxes all the stats Thursar wants but Thursars are shit and all tall so it doesnt matter.

Not only is it in range but in meele too. People can aim OVER other characters to hit you and do the craziest feints ever that would never land on an alvarin or oghmir.

I played a 174cm 90 int 80 psyche Thursar with 250hp and akh bond for 15-20 days before adamant was nerfed I never died on that build in teamfights before my whole team died obviously I could have made an Oghmir build and been even tankier but this is just to show that height is the thing that helps the most rathsr than raw durability. Because being tiny is as important as being mathematically durable hit for hit. You can have 400 HP if you are 250cm tall in a team fight you will fold because everyone is more likely to both focus you and hit you and stay on you range and meele the only good thing is you can get healed more easily and healing is OP.

My suggestion and an indirect nerf to Alvarins (especially sheevras) and Oghmirs is making size give more HP

Currently it gives something like 0.3 HP per attribute point I believe, make it give 1 HP per 1 attribute point.

Thursars and Humans genuinely need 300+ HP. And obviously nerf healing too so this raw hp matters more.

P.S. Thursar is genuinely 400% size of a Sheevra if I had to guess.
 
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boogis

Active member
Nov 15, 2020
184
31
28
I see, you're angry i corrected your bad ideas, and so you've come here to vent.
but i bet u r this cheater and trying to tell everyone about that im pissed about of criticism its a way to hide u r that cheater its so obviouse