The Community Got the Mortal Online it Deserved

[Teknique]

As an early alpha conflux supporter I really got an in depth view of how exactly this game progressed from mechanics that were nearly identical to the first game to this monstrosity we have now.

Shaming the community never seemed particularly useful but now is the time to inform you of how utterly you failed this game and yourselves.

- first of all only a handful of you kids even played until late beta since the cruzer software you needed to even kill a springbok wasn’t out yet. Shitters
- The vets that did play were even dumber than the tourists
- cried about turn caps but were such awful players that when Henrik had a version that wasn’t horrible you cried opting for the invisible turn cap that only effects people with above 60 iq thus enabling this spinfest we have now.
-cried about ninja sieges and begged for siege windows
- had such bad aim that sv had to remove all the “heaviness” from weapons that made them hard to aim (very early alpha)
- cried about “weapon range and desync” causing this horribly slow movement speed
-cried about really getting hit or taking damage at all causing the super lag added to swings
-cried about every class that isn’t a footfighter basically making it no longer an mmo but a really crappy duel sim with elementalism added on top
-cried about “jousting” utterly destroying stickyback dodging
-cried about breeding, making mounted boring af
-cried about tc and walls but then turn around and wanted houses every square foot of the game.

Now that the game is never going to go back to its former glory, there’s no reason to keep fighting so may as well just say it like it is.

Some honourable mentions that the community aren’t responsible for but still made the game ass nevertheless
-adding miss penalty ruining flurrying
- weapon weights don’t matter much for swing speed meaning a 3kg weapon is light. This utterly destroyed armor itemization which is why steel ironfur is scroach minimum
-no black listing and wardecs
- no sieging
- no thievery
- the best horse armor is no horse armor
- mas hitting for 200
- lancing only viable mc weapon which is dumb because it’s the easiest.
- no lictor armor
- guards everywhere
- drawing a bow takes 3-5 business days and wobble feels like ass without mastery.

I’ll add more as I think of em. But yeah Grats on fuckn up the game. Hope that duel felt a bit better for you.

 

[CherryKush]

What's funny is they catered to the crying carebear crowd that is for the most part no longer here. SV changed the game for them and they left anyways... Just like we all said they were going to...

 

[Teknique]

What's funny is they catered to the crying carebear crowd that is for the most part no longer here. SV changed the game for them and they left anyways... Just like we all said they were going to...

Yes the crowd that was always asking for more and more never could get enough. They were upfront and honest in some sense. They said they wanted to remove pvp entirely and we got pretty damn close. Now you just simply wish MO2 didn't have pvp because its so bad.

Its very interesting that people that played the game for 15 years seemed to hate every single thing about it, from the combat, to the game mechanics, classes everything.

 

[Turbizzler]

Unfortunately the only way MO2 will ever be redeemed, is if the game was reworked at the foundation,where SV learnt from their mistakes, and re-released....oh wait, that was what MO2 was supposed to be, for MO1.

Henriks biggest issue is, that's his "vision" is what ever is FOTM in the RPG/MMO & Melee slasher spaces, and if nerds feedback fall inline with his ever changing vision, he commits to that change. MO2 is basically multiple Korean MMO's, with a little of Chivalry, a little of WOW, and the trinket economy of Dark & Darker. With the ever so slightest sprinkle of UO and MO1. There's very minimal game direction, it's all knee jerk reactionary development. Which is why MO2 feels less and less like a Mortal Online game.

 

[manure]

I
I thought you wouldnt say the main reason this game is so empty... Was reading everything, almost ending...and then finally you stated : "guards everywhere" !

There it is... Thats what ive been saying since they destroyed Meduli with guards outside towns...
Dont even mention guard towers that came later, because it makes me vomit all the time !

We had a great game in february 2022... Now we just have a big Trammel.

It was so exciting to carry goods from one town to another...Fabernum to Tindrem, for example... it was risky, exciting, always dangerous...

Nowadays, all you have to do is follow the road and run to guard towers. Zero risk !

OF COURSE the game would die after this mediocre move from the Devs.

But what makes me REALLY pissed is that its SO EASY to fix and bring the game back to glory again... And yet, they dont do it.

- Erase every single guard outside town limits
- Give us THIEVING
- Boats, Poisoning and Lockpicking


Thats it ! With these simple 3 moves, you have a great game again.
Doesnt even need to make complex siege system craps or complex fighting rules... The simpler the better !

 

[Teknique]

Unfortunately the only way MO2 will ever be redeemed, is if the game was reworked at the foundation,where SV learnt from their mistakes, and re-released....oh wait, that was what MO2 was supposed to be, for MO1.

Henriks biggest issue is, that's his "vision" is what ever is FOTM in the RPG/MMO & Melee slasher spaces, and if nerds feedback fall inline with his ever changing vision, he commits to that change. MO2 is basically multiple Korean MMO's, with a little of Chivalry, a little of WOW, and the trinket economy of Dark & Darker. With the ever so slightest sprinkle of UO and MO1. There's very minimal game direction, it's all knee jerk reactionary development. Which is why MO2 feels less and less like a Mortal Online game.

Hmm think you pretty much nailed it word for word.

Flavor of the month knee jerk reactions that are poorly planned. Chivalry combat system but done badly. Spells just hodge podge thrown into the game. Sv would do well to coherently plan all their systems to work together instead of a bunch of standalone ideas trying to do interact with eachother. He also just selectively looks for the feedback that support what he’s saying or tunnel visions on the people that glaze him.

 

[Teknique]

I

I thought you wouldnt say the main reason this game is so empty... Was reading everything, almost ending...and then finally you stated : "guards everywhere" !

There it is... Thats what ive been saying since they destroyed Meduli with guards outside towns...
Dont even mention guard towers that came later, because it makes me vomit all the time !

We had a great game in february 2022... Now we just have a big Trammel.

It was so exciting to carry goods from one town to another...Fabernum to Tindrem, for example... it was risky, exciting, always dangerous...

Nowadays, all you have to do is follow the road and run to guard towers. Zero risk !

OF COURSE the game would die after this mediocre move from the Devs.

But what makes me REALLY pissed is that its SO EASY to fix and bring the game back to glory again... And yet, they dont do it.

- Erase every single guard outside town limits
- Give us THIEVING
- Boats, Poisoning and Lockpicking


Thats it ! With these simple 3 moves, you have a great game again.
Doesnt even need to make complex siege system craps or complex fighting rules... The simpler the better !

Sv attacked every system and every build in the game including and especially the risk aspect of the game. We used to kill people INSIDE tindrem. It’s not just guards it’s thievery it’s sieging its wardecs its territory control blacklisting it’s all borked

Here I’ll post a video of me killing brand new noobs inside tindrem. It’ll probably make you gush.

Im not bias or wrong about the other aspects of the game either. You just have to trust

 

[Embuscade]

Can you please source your comments? I mean it's very reductionist and simplistic, but it's proof and you're going to tell me to do my own research and spend as much time as I don't have for that.

Other, to like to kill noobs, to have the superiority on people less good than oneself, I find that toxic.

 

[Teknique]

Can you please source your comments? I mean it's very reductionist and simplistic, but it's proof and you're going to tell me to do my own research and spend as much time as I don't have for that.

Other, to like to kill noobs, to have the superiority on people less good than oneself, I find that toxic.

The short answer is no, things are either self evident like the lack of sieging or difficult to prove like the turn cap that was in alpha for a few days.

Now I happen to have a video of that turn cap but from my pov you won’t be able to tell. You would have to look at my opponents struggling to move and spin around.

Let me know if you have specific questions and I’ll see if I can get a source for you but no I’m not going to source everything mainly because of going through alpha patch notes and some of the things were ninja patched into the game.

 

[Jackdstripper]

Im sorry…all i hear is more crying about other people’s crying…is that what the cool kids do now? Complain about the complainers.

I was in MO1 and it wasnt nearly as amazing as you all make it sound. It was a complete desync lag fest where people would just spam fast weapons to abuse prediction…the good ‘ol days…. For a very small minority of people that like spammy, lag abusing combat and endless chases across the map.

Only 2 races were playable. Vheelas or melee Thursar. Nothing else was viable.
I could go on and on to no end about the issues of MO1.

It wasn't better. It was different. You just happen to like that old shit fest better than this new shit fest.

 

[Teknique]

Desync lagfest not quite how I would describe it. It didn’t have all the artificial lag that mo2 has but you’re absolutely right about fast weapons being necessary. Again your rational here is why hybrid armor is totally worthless.

I think it’s also self evident that this worked much better in large scale combat, itemization balance, and overall coherency of the game. Mo2 may have “better duels” but it’s not even a functioning game beyond that.

Youre right that I prefer that but it was just objectively a better game. I also would say it was much more accessible as we had multiple elderly people who were able to still be useful in combat. Not so much so in mo2. Anybody can spam left click so why are you mad at it.

Meta races are worse in mo2 as typically only 1 race is much better than the other and it shifts more and is more grindy.

Worse I would say mo2 combat andies trade a fully working game with endgame for a shell of a game with duels.

As for the complaining the irony isn’t lost on me. I felt this way since early alpha and am saying it 5 years later. Complaints in general aren’t necessarily the problem. The issue is who’s complaining and why I suppose. Do we listen to the feedback of people who hated everything about the game seemingly, or the people who loved it. I understand we’re in the inverse position now. People who love this frankenstein and someone like myself who hates everything about it. At some point we have to duke it out based on the facts. Combat was made janky to reduce spinning and yet this is the most spin intensive combat in any game of this genre. So clearly the game failed on that aspect alone. Desync is honestly beneficial, good luck breaking a stickyback in mo2 with movement.

 

[manure]

Sv attacked every system and every build in the game including and especially the risk aspect of the game. We used to kill people INSIDE tindrem. It’s not just guards it’s thievery it’s sieging its wardecs its territory control blacklisting it’s all borked

Here I’ll post a video of me killing brand new noobs inside tindrem. It’ll probably make you gush.

Im not bias or wrong about the other aspects of the game either. You just have to trust

Ah, man... That was so fantastic... Killing people inside towns was glorious !! Thats the kind of game I am always looking for... With danger on every corner and no safe spot !

But Im a little bit less violent.. I used to have much fun stealing people inside towns... That was glorious too. Its something that belongs to Mortal Online's core. And it was fun to the victim too...when they were able to kill me, their sensation was amazing... "One less scoundrel"...
I will never understand why they didnt add thieving in MO2. Never.,.,

This kind of game must have thieves.

 

[Emdash]

Im sorry…all i hear is more crying about other people’s crying…is that what the cool kids do now? Complain about the complainers.

I was in MO1 and it wasnt nearly as amazing as you all make it sound. It was a complete desync lag fest where people would just spam fast weapons to abuse prediction…the good ‘ol days…. For a very small minority of people that like spammy, lag abusing combat and endless chases across the map.

Only 2 races were playable. Vheelas or melee Thursar. Nothing else was viable.
I could go on and on to no end about the issues of MO1.

It wasn't better. It was different. You just happen to like that old shit fest better than this new shit fest.

It was better if you account for how much more polished MO2 is.

Like, you say desync lag fest and that may be true, but the issue is either A. they didn't fix the desync lag fest and instead changed the game to make it too slow to desync as much or B. they did make progress toward the goal of making the game run better, but instead of having a game that is 15-30% less laggy (which could have been cool tbh,) they changed it to this.

They really fixed some issues with MO1. Coming out of beta in MO2, I felt they could do something. Day 1 all I really wanted game play wise was for them to fix melee combat / parry. I know people are over literal, and when I said AUGH PARRY people don't realize I was talking about the whole system, but that shit has been aids and has probably turned more people off than anything.

Then, people have this belief that the people just aren't good enough or dedicated enough to 'git good,' but on the other hand, they want this soft game where they don't lose their most valuable shit and generally can't lose their TC, either.

I guess the TLDR is...

Most of us who were coming out of beta thought their idea was... MO1 ---> make better ---> MO2 (final product.)

Now, I know the community (and in turn the developer's) opinion was MO 1 (failed game) ---> new ideas with same engine ---> MO2

Hilariously, I bet they would have retained more people switching the engine and keeping the hardcore aspects, opposed to neutering the game because PPL HAVE JOBZ.

 

[Embuscade]

Ah, man... That was so fantastic... Killing people inside towns was glorious !! Thats the kind of game I am always looking for... With danger on every corner and no safe spot !

But Im a little bit less violent.. I used to have much fun stealing people inside towns... That was glorious too. Its something that belongs to Mortal Online's core. And it was fun to the victim too...when they were able to kill me, their sensation was amazing... "One less scoundrel"...
I will never understand why they didnt add thieving in MO2. Never.,.,

This kind of game must have thieves.

I think one of the reasons is that, as it stands, MO2 is already extremely punitive: if you farmez to the max to become a necromancer, and you lose your 500 gold farm in one go, you're just disgusted and don't necessarily want to do it again, worse still someone if'un steals from you in town.
You could say that today, there are literally people who have 10,000 stacks of gold, who don't use them and don't store them, and who have all the best of the game based on their character's constitution.

Translated with DeepL.com (free version)

It was better if you account for how much more polished MO2 is.

Like, you say desync lag fest and that may be true, but the issue is either A. they didn't fix the desync lag fest and instead changed the game to make it too slow to desync as much or B. they did make progress toward the goal of making the game run better, but instead of having a game that is 15-30% less laggy (which could have been cool tbh,) they changed it to this.

They really fixed some issues with MO1. Coming out of beta in MO2, I felt they could do something. Day 1 all I really wanted game play wise was for them to fix melee combat / parry. I know people are over literal, and when I said AUGH PARRY people don't realize I was talking about the whole system, but that shit has been aids and has probably turned more people off than anything.

Then, people have this belief that the people just aren't good enough or dedicated enough to 'git good,' but on the other hand, they want this soft game where they don't lose their most valuable shit and generally can't lose their TC, either.

I guess the TLDR is...

Most of us who were coming out of beta thought their idea was... MO1 ---> make better ---> MO2 (final product.)

Now, I know the community (and in turn the developer's) opinion was MO 1 (failed game) ---> new ideas with same engine ---> MO2

Hilariously, I bet they would have retained more people switching the engine and keeping the hardcore aspects, opposed to neutering the game because PPL HAVE JOBZ.

For me, one of the game's major problems is FARMING/GRINDING - the time spent in an MMO just repeating the same actions to gain %/quantities of materials to craft your stuff, knowing that, as tecknique says, the only equipment that currently works or is average for fighting and holding your own in combat is full-iron equipment or something very close to it (the big ants from the future reckoning maj.).
-But on the other hand, if we force armor to have more weight and less speed than equipment weight, it creates a mismatch with wizards, who by default have to be naked or almost naked to recover mana, and so either melee armor with no resistance to magic gets taken down from afar when trying to melee, or wizards are too slow and get killed in a few hits, which the big shield spinning against a wall can help temporarily.
I think you have to think of the problem as an Overwatch-style heroesshooter:
-- What do you use to protect yourself from projectiles?
-- We're in an MMO, so there are a lot of people, and you can duplicate “heroes” and their combos, so what do you do when you're playing range_magicien and you find yourself up against 6 anti-projectile magics screens in front of you?

Last but not least, people who still play MMOs and who are at least 30 years old, do they still have the time to do big GRINDING/FARMING sessions or to stay 8 hours playing until dark, to take part in a TC, whereas in “MOBAs” it's divided into a time-restricted session in which you take part regardless of your time.
-- To tell you the truth, in Eve Online, I don't know which year (less than 7 years), they've added the possibility of playing in groups with direct people and competing against each other without being part of a very large corporate structure that takes up your time with more or less restricted schedules: This makes it possible for people in mini guilds to take part in events with large numbers of players in groups created by a search for players who balance more or less automatically, and the EO communities are organized to meet on a voice with Calleader, generally the same people who belong to large corporate structures, but who above all want to have fun, and not obey some fucking officer/general who has more access to stuff than you do, and who doesn't play too much and spends more time having fun with geopolitics, and who chooses for everyone when you want to have fun smashing faces!

Translated with DeepL.com (free version)

Edit : It may translate from English to French, but there are small nuances that don't appear, and I sound much more like an angry MMO devotee than the initial message.

 

[CherryKush]

Ah, man... That was so fantastic... Killing people inside towns was glorious !! Thats the kind of game I am always looking for... With danger on every corner and no safe spot !

But Im a little bit less violent.. I used to have much fun stealing people inside towns... That was glorious too. Its something that belongs to Mortal Online's core. And it was fun to the victim too...when they were able to kill me, their sensation was amazing... "One less scoundrel"...
I will never understand why they didnt add thieving in MO2. Never.,.,

This kind of game must have thieves.

While in "Beta" and right after the game "Launched" Henrik had told us many times Thievery was "right around the corner" It was even on the roadmap. But when he would say that it would trigger the masses of visiting carebears in Twitch chat that we all knew would not stick with the game. We all knew they would flock to the next new shiny as soon as it came out but SV catered to these crybabies anyways is what has happened.

As the mob cried and screamed they changed their game. And now the mob has left, they took with them what made Mortal, Mortal...

 

[Teknique]

It was better if you account for how much more polished MO2 is.

Like, you say desync lag fest and that may be true, but the issue is either A. they didn't fix the desync lag fest and instead changed the game to make it too slow to desync as much or B. they did make progress toward the goal of making the game run better, but instead of having a game that is 15-30% less laggy (which could have been cool tbh,) they changed it to

Great point. They didn’t actually fix it they just threw a poop flavored bandaid on it.

 

[Bigbadwolff]

We all know Blizzard or microsoft will buy this game and turn it in World of Warcraft 4

 

[Teknique]

Ah, man... That was so fantastic... Killing people inside towns was glorious !! Thats the kind of game I am always looking for... With danger on every corner and no safe spot !

But Im a little bit less violent.. I used to have much fun stealing people inside towns... That was glorious too. Its something that belongs to Mortal Online's core. And it was fun to the victim too...when they were able to kill me, their sensation was amazing... "One less scoundrel"...
I will never understand why they didnt add thieving in MO2. Never.,.,

This kind of game must have thieves.

Thieving was honestly so much fun. Stole multiple house deeds nice horses couple 100 gold pieces at a time. I think at one point people just stopped carrying anything valuable since no one could catch the lean veela.

SV dunked on all the fun. That said the red system and no statloss in mo2 is a lot more red friendly than the first game and what I would like to see, but the guards everywhere is absolutely egregious.

 

[Emdash]

the time spend farming is indeed a problem, but the fact that content in a full loot sandbox is backed with sweat hours is an important balance aspect.

Khurite splinted hornscale, steel weps, a bow... <3 I've never come close to running out of gear in MO. Plus, there is like 'your job,' and if you aren't part of a big guild or someone who makes all your money by ganking people, you have to pay your dues to crafting and chop shit up for people to use. That is also good balance.

I posted it on Pax Dei Reddit and I posted it here, but I will post it again: SUSTAIN is the grind of sandboxes. Progression should be as much player skill / player charisma as possible, beyond the absolute minimum time tax to stay geared.

 

[Teknique]

the time spend farming is indeed a problem, but the fact that content in a full loot sandbox is backed with sweat hours is an important balance aspect.

Khurite splinted hornscale, steel weps, a bow... <3 I've never come close to running out of gear in MO. Plus, there is like 'your job,' and if you aren't part of a big guild or someone who makes all your money by ganking people, you have to pay your dues to crafting and chop shit up for people to use. That is also good balance.

I posted it on Pax Dei Reddit and I posted it here, but I will post it again: SUSTAIN is the grind of sandboxes. Progression should be as much player skill / player charisma as possible, beyond the absolute minimum time tax to stay geared.

The issue there is in the first game your gear actually mattered
- it was hard to get
- it was actually viable without being steel
- you could use mobility as Defense
- battles actually had real siege consequences. Now everyone pats themselves on the back and goes home.

Gear is badly balanced and so are the game mechanics.

The type of balance that these alpha plebs convinced sv to take is removing entire things out of the ecosystem. Like we don’t like rabbits let’s kill them all, we don’t need lions they scared my little daughter and it’s not fun to be scared HENRIKKK.